Secret World Beta

[WoW Killer]

I made a new character with an Assault Rifle just for shits and giggles. It's pretty similar, but with a seperate crippling issue. This time you've got combo points like before with generators and spenders, but the points apply to the enemies rather than to yourself. You remember what I said about the targets randomly switching during a fight? Yeah, that gets really annoying. I've worked out if you've targeted an enemy yourself via click or tab, then it'll stick to that enemy until it's dead, but if you use an attack without a target so that you get given a target automatically, then that's when it'll start switching willy-nilly. So first target in a pack is fine, but once that one is dead you'll inevitably have fired off another attack at a random target before you've had chance to target one yourself due to the lag (see the bit above about abilities firing twice in a row). At this point, do you carry on with that enemy and just hope your target doesn't get switched before you can get a finisher off, or do you retarget manually and waste that initial attack + resources? Either way, I call that assbackward.

What is it with MMO developers thinking gameplay doesn't matter?

The puzzle quests aren't actually puzzles at all.

The only "puzzling" thing I've found so far is that the quest directions are completely lacking. Like for instance the main quest in the zombie town asks you to go and find survivors. You find them, you talk to them, you do missions for them, but what are you actually supposed to be doing to advance the main mission? Well it doesn't tell you, and I've not worked it out yet. Is this supposed to be the appeal? Is tip-toeing around a room furiously clicking on anything and everything in the hopes of finding a quest item appealing?

I'm imagining avid fans pointing to stuff like this sometime in the future, and I know exactly the word they're going to use. It's "hardcore". Like it's somehow superior when the quests aren't intuitive and you have to spend much of your time outside of combat working out whatever the fuck you're supposed to be doing (actually, with combat this bad that does have it's upside). Whereas, a game like GW2 which has fairly straightforward quest objectives and the challenge is in the actual gameplay, that's going to be called "casual". Well bugger it, I'm a casual then.

GW2 - Please don't let me down. You're my last hope in this genre

Oh don't worry, it's way ahead of this shit.

 

[nu1mlock]

There's a lot to this game that I don't like. I mentioned a few of them in my last post just above. Another is the "find these items quests" where you, for example, have to find six (or so) lost pages.

This is really boring, the indicators where they are, they're okay, but can cover quite an area. That wouldn't have been a problem if the pages didn't look exactly like other white garbage thrown around town.

Not to mention that they disappear when someone has "used" them, which is another big problem during the beta. When I was searching for those missing pages, there were about 10 other people doing the same thing.

"First come, first serve", as soon as someone read a page, it disappeared for, I don't know, maybe 30 seconds. Didn't see the guy picking it up? Sucks to be you, the page was nowhere to be found and you'd have to run around the same area for 5 minutes.

Saw the guy picking it up? Great, all you have to do is stand and wait for it to re-spawn, together with 10 other people doing the same thing, trying to get the page as soon as it spawns. Didn't click first? Be still for another 30 seconds, hope that no one else will fill that first guys spot and hope that you'll be first on the page next time.

That's just one of the worthless quest this game has that makes you want to hit something.

Really bad animations, voice acting and especially retarded dialogue doesn't make it any better.

 

[TephlonPrice]

So here's what I've gathered from reading & seeing some YouTube footage:

-Modern day MMO that focuses on secret societies that uses the WoW approach (hotkeys, cooldowns, etc.)
-Quests that seem to have a lack of info, but features some puzzles
-Lack of adjustable mouse sensitivity
-Features standard MMO style combat, just with mystical abilities & firearms working in conjunction
-Nonexistent lip-syncing, with visuals that don't look impressive combined with some bad animation (due to DX9 I guess)
-A relatively simple interface with some NPC interaction problems
-Interesting cutscenes & fitting of Illuminati/Templar themes in a modern setting that definitely stands out among the usual fantasy settings
-Leveling system that allows you to tailor your character to your desires & needs (and wants) instead of locked down classes
-Character customization that's actually pretty nice (go for slutty as you wanna be to conservative Illuminati assassin)
-Confusing UI

And... they want to charge a full $60 for the game + $15 a month for this, combined with a cash shop that rivals Nexon in terms of stinginess, from what I read? And it's expected to drop in 5 weeks?

Yeah... I can see people buying this based on the interesting ideas, gameplay concepts & premises here, but a possible drop in players pretty quickly. Shame, because the whole concept & setting is definitely a welcome change for MMOs & makes me wonder where are all the modern-day MMORPGs are.

Honestly, I think this could be good if the combat was different a bit. Something like Alpha Protocol's weapon & melee combat (free-aiming with special abilities that can be used at the player's will & provide different approaches & ease of CQB) definitely could work here. Especially due to the open-class design.

 

[EmperorSubcutaneous]

snip

Good stuff, thanks for the summary. As I said earlier in the thread, I've pretty much written the game off due to their pricing scheme, but if it had turned out to be God's gift to gaming I might've reconsidered. If you feel like coming back to this thread with further impressions at any point, please feel free to quote me so I can pop in and see what you've got to say.

Right.

So I've spent some time in Kingsmouth.

The town is nice and detailed and atmospheric and all that, but seeing that every street is named "Elm Street" and "Poe Cove" and other such nonsense is kind of annoying. I'm not sure why people think this game is so subtle and intellectual. The constant shoutouts don't do anything to draw me in, but I suppose that's a personal thing.

I'm still not terribly impressed with the voice acting. People say it's much better than GW2's, but I'd put it at about the same level. (Both of them are below SWTOR.)

On to more important matters.

Being able to only track one quest at a time is incredibly obnoxious. You'll have to run around town numerous times to complete all of them, instead of being able to do everything in one place, then move on to the next place. I suppose this is to improve the flow of each individual story, but it only works if you've already decided to care about the story. It doesn't help draw in people who are uncertain.

But the quests themselves are, again, really annoying. I was sent out to find supplies (canned food, bullets, etc.) but I was only given one of those objectives at a time. I don't like TSW's tiered quests, but I guess GW2 spoiled me on that one. If you want me to kill 6 zombies, then jump on 6 cars to start their alarms and kill the zombies that run to the noise, then set 6 gas canisters on fire and lure the zombies into the fire, why does it have to be in that order? Why can't you give me all those objectives at once, and I can complete the quest by doing whichever ones I feel like doing?

Another thing GW2 spoiled me on is mob tagging. I hated competing for kills in TSW and I hope eventually all MMOs stop doing this.

Back to the supply-hunt quest, though. When I was picking up canned food, all of the cans in the area were highlighted but only some of them were collectable. I have no idea why. I had to run around the room hovering my cursor over each one to see if I was allowed to pick it up.

Some people think this is great because it means the game isn't holding your hand. I think it's tedious and a false challenge. (Also, when my objective is to be looking for a particular person, I think it makes sense to be able to ask NPCs if they've seen him. But no, that's not one of the available dialogue options. Again, that doesn't make the game more challenging in a meaningful way.)

One more problem with the puzzle quests...if you need an item that someone happened to have picked up right before you got there, you might not realize it was supposed to be there and end up wandering around for half an hour before you discover your mistake. That's another thing all future MMOs need to learn from GW2: make quest items spawn for each individual player, not for the whole world.

TSW feels more like a single-player game than SWTOR did. Even worse than SWTOR, actually, because there was no atmosphere in TOR to be ruined by seeing other players going about their business. TSW does have atmosphere, but watching some fuckwit with a pink mohawk bouncing past just ruins it. Not to mention the fact that you really need to turn off area chat if you don't want every single puzzle spoiled for you.

In short, I don't know why this game is an MMO. I don't think being massively multiplayer enhances the game at all. It would be much better if it were instanced like GW1 or Phantasy Star Online, or even Uru Live, so you and your friends could travel to all of these places and solve the puzzles together without other players getting in the way. That might have been a very entertaining game.

I will conclude this post with a video. You only need to watch the first 45 seconds to see just how creepy the characters look. (Combat happens on and off from about 10:00 to 20:00.)

 

[BloatedGuppy]

snip

I actually downloaded the beta just to take a peek myself. So far the DX11 client has failed to make it past character creation. The DX9 client got me past character creation into a (shoddy) cutscene, and is now frozen on a loading screen.

Good thing this releases in 6 weeks. Ho-ho-holy crap.

 

[EmperorSubcutaneous]

snip

I actually downloaded the beta just to take a peek myself. So far the DX11 client has failed to make it past character creation. The DX9 client got me past character creation into a (shoddy) cutscene, and is now frozen on a loading screen.

Good thing this releases in 6 weeks. Ho-ho-holy crap.

They've also said that this tutorial is only there for the beta weekend, and that we'll see the "real" one in game.

I assume it's supposed to be better than what's in here, in which case why put a crappy tutorial in your first NDA-free beta event, which is intended to be used as a free demo? If the game is 6 weeks from release, why not put the real tutorial in? Is it not finished yet? If so, that's a very bad sign.

I imagine things are going insane over at Funcom right now.

 

[WoW Killer]

I imagine things are going insane over at Funcom right now.

I'm wondering what it's like at EA right now ^^

 

[AlotFirst]

I imagine things are going insane over at Funcom right now.

I'm wondering what it's like at EA right now ^^

Those EA'ers are probably thinking: "They'll buy it anyway."

By the way people, please log-in to the game. Press "L", click "Achievements", click "Exploration", now count the amount of zones.

Spoiler

Eight. Eight f*cking zones. Eleven if you include the cities.

 

[WoW Killer]

Played a few more hours. I've been messing around with a few different weapon combinations to find something that works, and maybe get a feel for the level system. Your auto-attacks can build resources for both equipped weapons (each weapon has a seperate resource), so there's all sorts of ways you can mix the different finishers together. Best analogy I can think of is if you were to pick two WoW classes and then mix and match what abilities you wanted from each, but then your abilities also gain some sort of cross-class resource generation. So for instance you picked Rogue and Warrior, then your Sinister Strike would generate rage as well as combo points. You could then leave the Rogue unchanged except for taking, say, Mortal Strike, and just fit that in when you wanted.

The spell weapons don't seem to mix as well due to the long activation times on the finishers. Sword + Assault Rifle was the best combination I found, using the sword predominantly and just bringing the rifle out to burn off the extra resource (that you'll be generating anyway through your normal sword rotation). Seeing the number of abilities available I'm sure there's all sorts of different mechanics they can put in there.

If I'm honest, the skill system seems well done. It would be nice if other MMOs would go out on a limb and do something a bit different like this once in a while. It also reinforces my feeling of what a shame this game is overall. They've got some decent ideas like this (and also the idea of making an MMO that's not a fantasy or a space fantasy) and then they attach it to a dull, trite and ill-performing combat system. It's a real waste.

I hope future devs will look back on this game objectively and be able to pick out the things that work (e.g. modern day MMO is a really good idea), and not pass the whole thing off as the inevitable complete and utter failure it is destined to become, good bits and all.

 

[Sparklyfingers]

I'm sorry so many people seem to be having crash issues. I'm not having any, and I've only had to make the one character which has stayed when I've logged out and back in. I've had some lag and latency issues when there's a lot of players around, but otherwise it runs fine on my laptop.

I really like it so far. I've only played three or four hours, I'm toward the end of the quest chain in the New England area. It's different enough from your garden variety MMO's to be interesting but nor so much so that you're put off by it. The game doesn't hold your hand and point out the obvious, you do have to do some thinking on your own. Once you actually start using the UI it becomes more familiar.

Like in conversation with NPC's I kept looking for a little X in a corner to click away the conversation menu, which doesn't exist. So I kept "running away" from the NPC until it went away until I figured out to click on the same button again, e.g the red chat bubble, and it goes away.

Herpy-derp.

The quest system is interesting. Instead of just text scrolling on the screen, there's a more cinematic approach where the NPC talks to you and tells you what they need from you. No, your character doesn't talk back, but what MMO has had a player character with a full dialogue script? It would be interesting to see, for sure, but it doesn't bother me. I'm very fond of the areas as they have a nice ambience to them.

There's certainly a lot of "fetch" quests, but so far I haven't gotten sick of them yet. Gathering supplies for a harassed sheriff in a zombie-ridden town, finding missing people (most of them zombiefied) or locating ingredients for bombs is pretty good fun, actually. You CAN pick up more than one quest and cycle through them but yes, there is a limited number of quests you can keep in your questlog.

Character creation needs work, and Funcom have said that there will be more options etc on launch. I had to make a guy because no matter what I did, my female character looked like a neanderthal. Hopefully the characters will look and move a lot better upon launch. The animations are a bit... lacking.

The combat is alright, though some "classes" and combinations are definitely more powerful than others. Since I've been playing alone so far it's a bit frustrating that I built my character "wrong", but it's nothing that you can't improve on by distributing your ability points.

The combat tutorial was nice in that you actually got to try out all the different weapons, be they melee, magic or ranged, and see what you liked best before making a choice. I hope they keep that bit.

The voice acting is pretty good. In conversations it's the lip animation that annoys me more than voice acting. The dialogue is rather amusing in places, too. I love the difference between chipper Londoner quipping a "cheerio" to American drawl.

All in all I'm finding it an interesting, innovate fresh breath in a sea of MMO's that all look and feel alike. It's a damn shame that I, and no doubt many others, won't be able to afford playing it due to the aggressive pricing.


Also, you might want to check out Funcom's known issues for this Beta patch. There are some things people keep complaining about that they are aware of and will fix.

http://darkdemonscrygaia.com/showthread.php?t=29187

 

[WoW Killer]

No, your character doesn't talk back, but what MMO has had a player character with a full dialogue script?

SW:TOR.

And no, it wasn't that great of an addition to MMOs.

I'll forgive any issues TSW has as far as voice acting is concerned. The thing about voice acting is it's very expensive for the short amount of content it provides. The amount of effort that goes in to different dialogue options for what that does to the overall feel of the game is not worth it when you can spend that time and money looking at things like combat mechanics and server performance. When you look at SW:TOR, they sort of shot themselves in the foot with the quality of their content. For the same content WoW can provide, it costs all that much more to do the same sort of thing in SW:TOR. As a result it was released with very little content (it didn't take long to cap, and there wasn't much to do when you got there) and creating any new content is all that more difficult.

Playing through less well funded games with voice overs as a female is interesting (actually I usually play as females because they're nicer to look at from behind) as you get to see all the gender discrimination come out. You start to notice how often NPCs refer to you as gender neutral terms ("mate", "pal", "kid"). Then you get the moments that the male NPCs square up to you and the females are flirtatious (see in the hippy camp missions). But bad as this is, it's forgiveable, because it would be too expensive to do otherwise for very little benefit. It's admirable that TSW has any voice acting at all, so we shouldn't blame it for having fewer options than SW-"most expensive game ever made"-TOR.

Also, some people have called TSW's voice overs cheesy, and well of course they are. Games are always cheesy. Games have ridiculous plots about ancient evils and fighting demons and zombies and shit. The reason TSW might seem cheesier than SW:TOR is probably because TSW has a more realistic setting. SW:TOR's world is pure camp, and if someone says a cheesy line it kind of fits because you're expecting it. Give the same line to a working class Londoner and it will sound cheesy, but it's not actually worse.

It's actually a shame I only ever rate a game on gameplay, because I could defend the shit out of this on the terms that a lot of people seem to go by

 

[Sparklyfingers]

No, your character doesn't talk back, but what MMO has had a player character with a full dialogue script?

SW:TOR.

Ah. Didn't know that since I haven't played it. It's a rare thing, though, and as you say, it's far too expensive to do for a small benefit. You could argue that your character feels more "alive", but in games like Mass Effect a pre-scripted character is no more mine than one that doesn't speak, y'know?

Also, some people have called TSW's voice overs cheesy, and well of course they are. Games are always cheesy. Games have ridiculous plots about ancient evils and fighting demons and zombies and shit. The reason TSW might seem cheesier than SW:TOR is probably because TSW has a more realistic setting. SW:TOR's world is pure camp, and if someone says a cheesy line it kind of fits because you're expecting it. Give the same line to a working class Londoner and it will sound cheesy, but it's not actually worse.

People should remember that finding things silly doesn't mean they're -bad-. It can be intentional. It's okay to laugh, people. Humor is still a thing!

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Also, some people have called TSW's voice overs cheesy, and well of course they are. Games are always cheesy. Games have ridiculous plots about ancient evils and fighting demons and zombies and shit. The reason TSW might seem cheesier than SW:TOR is probably because TSW has a more realistic setting. SW:TOR's world is pure camp, and if someone says a cheesy line it kind of fits because you're expecting it. Give the same line to a working class Londoner and it will sound cheesy, but it's not actually worse.

I wouldn't say cheesy, but I would say "wooden". As for the cost of voice acting...if you're going to have voice acting at all, I think you've got an obligation to do it properly, at least. That doesn't necessarily mean hiring Martin Sheen, but it does mean not using Todd from Marketing who reads every line in a flat monotone. There have been plenty of games made on the cheap that featured exemplary voice acting. That said, I more or less have the same complaint about Guild Wars 2.

I've also got to disagree that "all games are cheesy", but I guess that depends on where you draw the cheese line. If you draw it at "this is fantastical, ergo it is cheesy", then I suppose many games are, in fact, by that definition, cheesy. But if we're that loose with our definition of cheese, then we're left wanting for appropriate terminology when we need to, say, distinguish between cornball sword and sorcery fluff with little to no thought put into it, and high minded low fantasy epics wedded with historical fiction.

TSW might be aiming for camp and hitting the mark dead on. I wouldn't know. I couldn't get the game to launch for me, and since I was looking out of the most cursory of curiosity in the first place, three strikes trying to make it past character creation was more that sufficient for me to shrug and move on to other things.

 

[pure.Wasted]

Similar horror story to many others. Downloaded, patched, installed, and couldn't get the game to play.

Now, I'll admit I was semi-expecting that result... I knew that I wouldn't be able to play it well on this laptop, at any rate, and would hardly blame the game for that. But I can run SC2 on its lowest settings without chugging, I should at least be able to get to your freaking menu.

No dice.

Oh well. The only thing that intrigued me was the levellless gameplay, but since it sounds like skilling up essentially requires you to do the traditional grind... nothing new here, moving along.

 

[WoW Killer]

if you're going to have voice acting at all, I think you've got an obligation to do it properly, at least.

Maybe, but it's becoming customary to have voice overs in games these days, and that's an incredible cost for what used to be a simple piece of text. Would games be more criticised for having no voice acting? I wouldn't know because it seems like everyone is doing it now. Plus, it's only been recently that I've ever thought to criticise a game on such grounds. Nobody criticises Morrowind or Final Fantasy 7 or Megaman X for a lack of voices. Is some voice acting really worse than no voice acting?

I more or less have the same complaint about Guild Wars 2.

Yeah, GW2's voice overs are awful. I love the gameplay, but no fucks were given for the story (crazy thought: can you imagine if a game with TSW's setting had a combat system like GW2 or Tera? No, no developer would be smart enough to make such an obviously great game).

If you draw it at "this is fantastical, ergo it is cheesy", then I suppose many games are, in fact, by that definition, cheesy.

That's pretty much it. Games are, by and large, fantastical. Especially MMOs. Call that cheesy or not, it sounds cheesy when you read it out to a microphone. Sure, games haven't always had the privilege of classically trained Thespian actors backing them, but this goes back to that cost argument. Is it really worth it to hire proper actors when that money could go elsewhere? Me, I'm all about gameplay, and I almost feel like an outsider saying that (as silly as that sounds). I'd much rather TSW had a coherent combat system than sorted out its issues with voice acting. Neither of those things are going to happen before release btw...

 

[boyvirgo666]

....WHAT?!?!?!

I hope it fails badly. Sub fee AND microtransactions? Piss off.

3 character slots, $10 for extra slots.

That's some FTP style pricing. On a game with a sub fee and a box price. That's past my tolerance threshold for gouging, I'm afraid.

Do you really need more than 3 characters? I got into the beta and im loving it. The advancement system is refreshing and the story is at times funny and creepy which is a mood whiplash that i love

 

[nu1mlock]

Maybe, but it's becoming customary to have voice overs in games these days, and that's an incredible cost for what used to be a simple piece of text.

A wall of text for your quests makes your quest un-interesting while voice acting the story and quests can make you care. And if you care you enjoy the game more.

With bad voice acting you either laugh at it or get annoyed which, in most cases, won't make you care. Unless you laugh because it's actually funny. TSW isn't funny, you don't laugh because it's comedy.

That's why it's becoming customary to have voice acting in games, people are getting bored of the games that give you a wall of text for a quest (which most people never read anyway).

 

[hino77]

I'm amazed how stupid people are today. Bashing on a game because it has a feature that you don't like, which you don't even have to use. At all.

Here's an idea: Ignore the cash shop and try the game without paying any microtransactions. Who knows, maybe the game is good and you'd miss out on something cool only because you choose not to play it for a feature that you're not forced to use, that doesn't impact the gameplay and that we don't even know anything about (except for the option to buy more slots, which we don't need anyway thanks to how the game is developed).

I'll let the developers do whatever they want, it's their game. I'll try it out and if I like it, I'll keep playing it, even though they have a microtransaction system that I will never use.

Wow, do you have a toothache or something? I wont buy a game that uses a system i dont like, and your`e all mad and stuff. Calm down, you have no problem with it, good for you, i hope you will have fun with the game. But that is not for me, that`s all.

 

[nu1mlock]

Wow, do you have a toothache or something? I wont buy a game that uses a system i dont like, and your`e all mad and stuff. Calm down, you have no problem with it, good for you, i hope you will have fun with the game. But that is not for me, that`s all.

I didn't enjoy the game at all, but I still believe it's wrong to boycott a game because of a small "feature" that you don't even have to use. I won't be buying the game now that I've tried it, but that's because I didn't enjoy the game.

 

[hino77]

Wow, do you have a toothache or something? I wont buy a game that uses a system i dont like, and your`e all mad and stuff. Calm down, you have no problem with it, good for you, i hope you will have fun with the game. But that is not for me, that`s all.

I didn't enjoy the game at all, but I still believe it's wrong to boycott a game because of a small "feature" that you don't even have to use. I won't be buying the game now that I've tried it, but that's because I didn't enjoy the game.

And i won`t but the game, becouse i really dont like to pay a monthly rent for a game i already baught,especialy when its topped of with a cash shop. Its all preference , and not really a boycott.Not to mention that the things i heard about the game are not flattering.I did not make clear exactly why im not buying the game, and thats on me, so, sorry `bout that.So, you played and didnt like it,could you specify? I heard that the story is pretty cool ,but the gameplay is reeeealy bad.