Sequels That Didn't Live Up To Their Predecessors
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Wow, I was expecting the first response to be FFX-2, and I'm one of the few people who actually enjoys that game in all its cheesy glory. I actually like it more than FFX, but it goes without saying that FFX-2 was a huge wave of disappointment for fans of FFX, and for many fans of the series as a whole.
I'll sit alone in my corner of being endeared by its fail.
I'll sit alone in my corner of being endeared by its fail.
my personal one would be Medal of Honor (2010), it was a modern shooter, but the controls felt clunkier then Frontline and Rising Sun (My two personal favourites of the series)
As much as I like the game, I'm going to have to agree with everyone here about New Vegas. It improved upon many of the gameplay aspects of 3 but there was just no atmosphere. The thing about 3 was that even when I got out of the vault the world still felt claustrophobic. The level-design really helped. You could get lost for hours in downtown D.C., but New Vegas? Miles of flat, boring landscape and invisible walls and other restrictive barriers. And i always though of 3 as something of a survival-horror game. You had the Dunwich building and Point Lookout among other things. New Vegas doesn't really have anything like that. Disappointing.
I'm currently playing through Old World Blues. It's pretty good. New Vegas is a good game and I'll always enjoy it, but 3 will always be the better game in my mind.
I'm currently playing through Old World Blues. It's pretty good. New Vegas is a good game and I'll always enjoy it, but 3 will always be the better game in my mind.
Let me just say that I am enjoying this discussion quite a lot, it's nice to talk to someone who isn't a raving Bethesda fanboy and actually supports their claims.
He's a great source of info for a lore junkie and even talks about the NCR's campaigns into Mexico.
Oh, and he's voiced by Ian Gregory, another instant win.
Also, just a side note but "I Could Make You Care" is one of my favourite quests.
This is so untrue in so many different ways.
Okay I don't want to go into DLC too much either but basically; Aliens were not canon in F1/2, F3 made them canon, Wild Wasteland retconned that by making them only appear with WW (J. E. Sawyer said that WW was not canon).War Penguin said:
Fair enough, one of your statements just seemed that way, never mind.
Yes that's true but that's the thing, you can't just take everything by face value you have to look at the grand picture, then if you do you will see why "Can You Find it in Your Heart" is more interesting than you first thought. Don't get me wrong I'm not necessarily saying "Those!" was a bad quest, just that it really didn't do anything to support the Fallout world, but enough about giant ants.
He still had a lot of information to give though. He is one of the best sources of information for why the NCR are not as good as everyone thinks. He gives you a lot of backstory about the First Battle of Hoover Dam and also gives his opinion on the current major NCR leaders. He also talks about how the rangers and NCR first made contact with Hoover Dam and the Legion and how he lead them to victory.
He's a great source of info for a lore junkie and even talks about the NCR's campaigns into Mexico.
He was a peaceful, intelligent mutant that is actually trying to build a civilisation for mutants and create peace between mutants and the NCR (cosidering how much the NCR hate mutants e.g. Mean Sonofabitch). The closest thing in F3 was Underworld, a paranoid city of ghouls who didn't seem to be making much attempt of negotiation compared to Marcus and also doesn't have as much background lore. When talking to Marcus he gives you a lot of information aboutt he formation of Jacobstown and how it came about and even mentions the Chosen One from Fallout 2 which is nice. However, I admit that after exhausting dialogue and doing his quest he becomes useless, would've been nice to have him as a comapanion again. Also his opinions on the current situation are nice to listen to.
She's a good representation of what the NCR is doing wrong. She is very pro-military and very anti-diplomacy, a major weakness for the NCR that has caused them to be so hated by so many communities. Her answer to everything is just more guns or kill them, a very negative, barbaric and backwards approach to forming a republic and one that will clearly lead to the end of the NCR if it continues.
It isn't just what you encounter personally, but also what other people say about them. Although you only see him once he is mentioned by other people in conversation. It can be gathered that Kimball is a president obsessed with his own legend and the legend of the NCR, he is thick-headed and clearly does not see the error of his ways and when it comes right down to it really doesn't care for his own country. If you listen to his entire speech at the very end he says a very private thing without realising the microphone is still on that basically shows he doesn't care aboutt he soldiers or anyone and that as long as the NCR stay glorious then so will he.
That basically who he is; Patton but without the military capability. He is very similar to Moore in that he is more focused on military matters and becoming a legend than he is fighting for his own people and soldiers. He is arrogant and basically Kimball's lacky. He is especially interesting to talk to when siding with House or Yes Man because he refuses to believe that he has lost and shows just how thick-headed he is. Yes I admit his voice wasn't that great but his lines were, and his uniform, and seeing him throw off Hoover Dam was hilarious.
He is almost the opposite kind of officer Moore is, he cares for his troops and does not act rash. He is one of the very few high ranking NCR officers who isn't thick-headed or entirely militaristic and along with Chief Hanlon is one of the few small hopes for the NCR's military victory.
Nice to see someone who doesn't go "He hates women, he is a bad character, kill him I don't want to listen to what he has to say!". I to disagree with some of his beliefs but he does do everything in a kind of "ends justify the means" kind of way.
...and he's voiced by Keith Szarabajka, which is an instant win.
She is depressed, she hates what the NCR have caused and hates how nobody can ever get along. She is a symbol of hope that eventually the people of the Mojave and Nevada can live good lives once again, however, this is also a fault as it makes her too optimistic but that is balanced out by her cautiosness and lack of trust for others (except for the courier).
Yes, it was nice to see a calm and collected leader of a raider group who was also ambitious and confused. He is a good leader who cares for his members, but he is also blinded by what happened at Bitter Springs and requires extensive proof to break off his alliance with Caesar.
Oh, and he's voiced by Ian Gregory, another instant win.
Nope, Regis is Papa Khan's right hand man. His most trusted advisor and one of the very few Khans who does not hold a grudge against the NCR for what they did at Bitter Springs. Yeah sure he hates what happened, but at the same time he realises that can't let the past block the future.
Well I haven't played ME2 so I can't compare, however, I think it's unfair to compare him to Andrew Ryan. He was a great character but he was based on Objectivism and the teachings of Ayn Rand, Mr House is based on Howard Hughes. Howard Hughes was obsessed with planes and eventually became cut off from the outside world, House is obsessed with robots and advanced technology and also eventually becomes cut off from the real world. I thought he was a very interesting character that offered a lot of backstory as to how Vegas survived and how he, unlike the NCR, truly cares for New Vegas and treats it like his own child.
I love Lanius, one of my favourite characters. Although you only meet him once, that one meeting is enough to give you a good sense of his personality. Throughout the game people like Caesar and Vulpes comment on how they think Lanius is dangerous and is a savage beats who has no care for anything. What surprised me is that he wasn't liek that, he cares greatly for his troops and takes the battle into consideration. Compare him to Oliver, Moore and Kimball, they are convinced that they can keep going and expand the NCR and especially Oliver who can't even be bargained with when spoken to because he has no respect for the courier. Amazingly, Lanius is not like this, if talked to enough he admits that yes, the Legion cannot keep expanding and will eventually lose, he has something that Kimball, Moore and Oliver lack - honour. He can be convinced to step back and stop the attack and he then states that he respects the courier and that he is a very strong person who is much better than the leaders of the NCR. I wouldn't call him "civil", but when it comes to battle he is more respectful and calm when ti comes to confrontation, even offering to fight 1v1 with the Courier (compared to Oliver who sets up traps, barriers and is protected by rangers).
Henry is smart, he wasn't a complete believer in the Enclave unlike Moreno and knew what he was doing.
He gives some good (if not biased) insight to life under the NCR and how they took away his home and constantly made his life worse.
One thing I loved about McNamara is that he is the complete opposite of Lyons from F3. The BoS in F3 were horrible, they were too perfect; altruistic knights-in-shining-armour that helped the poor and weak and sacrifice their men for the good of the wasteland. That isn't the same BoS from F1/2, what happened to the xenophobic conservative assholes from those games? McNamara went back to the good ol' BoS we loved to hate, he was an interesting character because he didn't know what to do, he was losing the war with the NCR and thought what he was doing was right because it was in the codex. He represents conformity and Veronica is his opposite. he cares for his people, but does not know how to care for them in a practical way and his is so unsure of himself that he will not even consider Veronica's proposal.
Also, just a side note but "I Could Make You Care" is one of my favourite quests.
That's what makes him interesting, although he does not appear in the game directly (haven't played Old World Blues yet), he is mentioned by people. Nash at Primm mentions the courier before us saw our name and said to give it to him, in Dead Money Christine mentions meeting a courier who said that he was looking for someone from his past and in Honest Hearts Joshua says that he thought the Legion would thier courier (Ulysses is with the the other Caesars Legion characters in the Collectors Edition deck of cards) so it can be assumed he is referring to Ulysses.
Nope, it's as simple as drilling some holes in the bottom of a bucket, placing some rocks at the bottom, then a cloth, some dirt, another cloth and then pourinf the water into it. The water will be filtered through the dirt and rocks and come out through the holes and into whatever device you have underneath (like a water bottle or another bucket).
They were still there, also I forgot to mention low intelligence dialogue and different bullet types and creation. Yeah sure they're all mostly small and minor but there are more new things in New Vegas then there are in some other sequels. In Halo 2 the only significant difference was duel weapons and some multiplayer tweaks. However, when it comes to New Vegas everyone is always all "New vegas added nothing and is just glorified DLC".
This is so untrue in so many different ways.
No I'm not an Interplay fanboy, especially since Black Isle was closed down and most of the good people at Inerplay left. Also I've only ever visited NMA once to download the Van Buren demo. I do not think F1/2 are the greatest games ever made and I admit they have faults, so does New Vegas. Fallout 3, however, has way more faults and few redeeming qualities for me.evilneko said:
Ratchet: Deadlocked
I loved the Ratchet&Clank series up until then, but that one was just kinda shit, perhaps due in no small part to the fact that they apparently beat the single player section of the game to death with a morningstar in order to try and push their mediocre multiplayer instead.
As I chose to get an X360 instead of a PS3 for the next console generation, I have no idea if the series recovered or not.
I loved the Ratchet&Clank series up until then, but that one was just kinda shit, perhaps due in no small part to the fact that they apparently beat the single player section of the game to death with a morningstar in order to try and push their mediocre multiplayer instead.
As I chose to get an X360 instead of a PS3 for the next console generation, I have no idea if the series recovered or not.
Well, that's good to hear. I, too, am enjoying this discussion [small](even if it is preventing me from sleep)[/small]. Believe me, other than Fallout 3, I'm not a huge Bethesda fan, don't you worry [small](though, I am interested in Skyrim, but I digress)[/small]. I'm just glad this hasn't turned into an angry mud slinging debate where both sides lose.ChupathingyX said:
Alright, that makes things much less confusing, thank you for clarifying. Aliens were present in Fallout 1 and 2, but only as easter eggs, that I understand. However, since Mothership Zeta was DLC, I still never really considered it canon. Just a really, really long easter egg.
Oh, and just as an interesting thought, not really part of the discussion, but I read somewhere that UFOs were most commonly seen when there was high amounts of nuclear activity. During WW2, when the Americans dropped the bomb on Hiroshima, Roswell, where they were doing those testings, etc. I think the aliens were a nod to all of that. Granted, I still don't think they should be considered canon, but I still think it's interesting. If I find it, I'll send it to you, if you would like.
Alright, but if I was being condescending, I didn't mean to be and I'm sorry if I was or will be.
And that's what I suffered from: Not seeing things at face value. Granted, when I first played "Those!" and first played "Can You Find it in Your Heart," I instantly thought "Those!" was the better quest because of the craziness. But looking much deeper into each quest, I now think "Can You Find it in Your Heart" is just as good, but for a totally different reason.
I guess while Fallout 3 had more insane and weird quests, New Vegas had much more connected and interpretive quests.
However, I will say there's no reason not to have both. This is what I thought New Vegas should have done: Have deeper, connected quests and crazy quests at the same time. It had a few of that, like the quest with the ghouls trying to go to space. I thought that there would be more of that, but I was disappointed. Still, in the light that you've shone, I can learn to appreciate the quests much more.
Well, that's the problem I had with him: He was treated like a story book and not as a character. When he did show character, I liked it a lot. But it was so minimal. I was extremely disappointed.
Actually, Marcus suffered the same problem as Hanlon did: He was treated as a history book and barely a character. And really, all of the interesting features about him were only carried on from Fallout 2, how humans and mutants had made peace [small](excluding the Capital Wasteland, but that's another discussion for another time)[/small].
Okay, I like how you talked about how Moore and Hsu were totally different. This I like and it did bring more character between the? well, characters.
Ah, well, I never really got to hear his speech, mainly because I was focussing on how to save his ass. Still, I'll trust you that he was just an egotistical twat who didn't care one bit about his me.
I guess that's true, he was more hard headed than I remember. I guess I just got distracted by the voice. And yes, I thought the throwing scene was hilarious, too.
I never played Honest Hearts so I wouldn't know. Sorry.
Okay, now that's an interesting way to look at the character. I still wasn't a fan, but that's a new way for me to look at her.
However, now I see her as a bit... sporadic, for want of a better word. It seemed that she was juggling those emotion far too much to pick only one. Granted, all of those emotions made sense, and a character with multiple emotions is a good character, but she seemed to have them quite frequently and too quick in succession.
Oh, that guy. Yeah, I guess he was fairly interesting, but if I didn't remember him from the start like some of the others, I doubt that's a good sign.
I like your comparison of House and Hues, but I still think Ryan shared some of the same traits. Rapture was Ryan's child, as well, just like Vegas was to House. Granted, House wasn't as objective as Ryan, but he still cared for Vegas and didn't want any outside influences like the NCR or the Legion.
Okay, this is something I really want to talk about: A lot of people hated the Brotherhood that was portrayed in Fallout 3. I can understand that, they were way too goody goody than they were in 1 and 2. However, they were doing much worse when they were trying to help the natives [small](up until the end, at least)[/small]. Lyons realized this, but still stuck to his gut, even when half of his soldiers left him and formed the Outcasts. That's all I wanted to say.
I still have my doubts. Care to show your sources?
Okay, looking back, this is where I was getting nervous that I was being condescending. If I was, I'm sorry.
Granted, there was much more added on to New Vegas than most sequels, but I still felt like I was playing the same game.
But I absolutely hated it when people said it was a glorified DLC, too.
How do you know he's a diehard or a NMA regular? How do you know he won't be convinced? Granted, he seems to be really supportive of his argument, but so am I. I argue with him, because he still makes some really good points and is being civil about it. A little not so well known fact about me: I love to be proven wrong. It gives me an opportunity to learn more about the subject and how to learn how to defend my argument.evilneko said:
I remember liking Halo 2 when I was younger and, it was a new title but I went back and tried playing it a few months ago and it's just really hard to get back into for me. I could go back through the first, third and, Reach but playing through the 2nd is near impossible for me, especially when you get to Earth.Bobbity said:
OT: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords. I loved that game but there was so much missing from it. Granted I've only been able to play the Xbox version.
Dragon Age II. It's cool how they tried making it more like Mass Effect but...well, it isn't Mass Effect. I loved the original Dragon Age because I could play as something other than a human.
I didn't care for the 3rd-person Duke Nukem titles either...granted I've never played Zero Hour...
I think it was more to do with the alien movies of the 40's and 50's and the flying suacer, big headed aliens. Remember the Fallout series is retro-futuristic and conatins a lot of culture from the 40/50s. However, what you said could also be inspirationa and also sounds interesting.War Penguin said:
That one was of my favourite aspects of New Vegas, especially when it came to the big 4 faction decisions, everything can be interpreted differently depending on personal opinion. Basically the game was very grey in morality and made you think about what was going on.
That's true, you can have both and with the release of Old World Blues, Obsidian have really upped the humour. I haven't played it yet but from what peple are saying here on this website it is very funny and wacky, and the people here are very judgemental of the NV DLC.
[quoteActually, Marcus suffered the same problem as Hanlon did: He was treated as a history book and barely a character. And really, all of the interesting features about him were only carried on from Fallout 2, how humans and mutants had made peace [small](excluding the Capital Wasteland, but that's another discussion for another time)[/small].[/quote]
I see your point, however, being a lore junkie I like the amount of information he gives. And no we won't go into the Capital Wasteland mutants...
If you go on the Fallout wiki you can read his speech, it's basically all just a bunch of rubbish due to the very final and accidental line he says over the mic. It shows his true feelings about the whole speech.
Oh ok, well I thought Keith did a great job as Graham.
He wasn't a massively interesting character, just interesting for the reason I said, he is one of the very few Khans who looks at things in a larger sense.
Yes they do share similarities, but I don't think it is fair to say that House is copied from Andrew Ryan, he shares more similarities with Hughes (there's actually a portrait of House at Camp Golf that resembles a real life picture of Hughes).
I still think the BoS in F3 were too good, the BoS were very xenophobic and as Veronica describes they rely on procreation to survive. The BoS in F3 were so desperate that they were taking so many new members they didn't even seem like the BoS anymore and they forgot their initial mission of acquiring advanced tech (Liberty Prime did not exist). The Outcasts I admit were one of my favourite factions in F3 because they resembled the true BoS, however, they were also the people who sent me into Operation Anchorage...([small]but I won't get into that[/small])
There are many websites on the internet that you can find that will show you how. Basically what happens is the radiation will be absorbed by the dirt, but the water will keep moving through and eventually pour out with almost no radiation depending on the "clayness" of the dirt. Too pourous like sand will barely absorb radiation, too thick like molding clay probably won't even let the water through.
That's most likely because of the same engine and setting, however, like I've shown when looked at thouroghly they are very different.
I would have to agree with you there. The changes they made to ME2 smoothed it and made it into a greater game (IMO But it doesnt for DA2Shoggoth2588 said:
Indeed. I actually had to sit an choose which faction I thought was good for New Vegas. After I killed Benny, I barely touched the main quest for a while because I didn't want to choose to hastily, but still wanted to play the game.ChupathingyX said:
That's good to hear, I'm excited to play Old World Blues. It's funny, captures that 40s/50s feel, and looks fun as hell.
OH, and as a side note: I freaking loved Dead Money. I don't know about you, but I thought it was awesome!
Don't get me wrong, I'm a lore junkie, myself. Hell, I went through every single possible dialogue option I could in Fallout 3 and New Vegas. However, I still think he could have been used much more, like maybe he could have given you support during the fight for Hoover Dam.
And... well, I think that's all I really have left to say.
I too, loved Dead Money, the characters were all interesting and unique (especially Dog/God and Christine).War Penguin said:
Hmm, well that was probably because he doesn't like to fight and fighting at Hoover Dam would go against his principles. Plus he isn't on good terms with the NCR or Caesars Legion and I doubt they would be very accepting of his appearence.
Yeah I guess so, cheers.
Sim City Societies.
It's... It's taken a few years, but I've finally been able to accept that it is a Sim City game. I was one of the SC fans who took the new developers as an excuse to insist it wasn't actually a sequel.
/me exhales
But I'm OK with that now. It was just a really bad sequel. Those happen all the time.
It's... It's taken a few years, but I've finally been able to accept that it is a Sim City game. I was one of the SC fans who took the new developers as an excuse to insist it wasn't actually a sequel.
/me exhales
But I'm OK with that now. It was just a really bad sequel. Those happen all the time.
I would agree with you on Borderlands if it wasn't for the fact that the 2 designers who came up with the ideas that would create these new games, made their ideas around the same time and they wouldn't have learnt of the other game's existence untill many years in the future when both games would be announced to the public.jackpackage200 said:
But Boarderlands still wasn't a good game because it felt like a single player MMORPG combined with a first person shooter.
I will agree with you the health system but i disaggree with everything else.Sir Boss said:
How can you hate Master chief i would understand why you would dislike a silent protagonist but it isn't like he can say or do anything that would cause hatred.
Without the Flood the story would never advance it would just be an endless war between humans and the covenant. I also thought they were a cool surprize in halo one.
Brutes, prophets, and the gravemind all helped expand the halo universe past the single ring that we played on in the first game.
It sounds like the only thing you hate from halo two was the new story really.
I personally dislike halo 3.
It felt like a majority of the levels were shorter then halo 1 or 2 and i can sumarize the story in a sentence.
.
Spoilers: Master chief goes to the biggest halo that was ever created and kills everyone.
It's not so much I hate the chief, more i hate what the fanbase does to him, put him up on the highest pedistal without much reasonAzure9 said:
the flood were just plain annoying to fight, as where brutes. The gravemind, i dislike because ...well c'mon a wierd hunk of meat that speaks in trochaic septa meter. as for the prophets why bring in an all new alien species who's only job appears to be to rule, how did these three become rulers? it just bugs me
and you are right, I do dislike the story in Halos 2 and 3