Series That Rely Too Much on Expanded Universe Media

[cojo965]

I'm sure that you guys have found at least one of these in your time, so let me start us off with what I find to be the current king in this regard: Halo. Ugh, where to start here?

Halo CE: The first game has no set-up, no explanation of what the fuck is happening, and no satisfactory reason to care about anyone. It seems that the game expects the player to have read Fall of Reach to get those answers. Sorry guys, not every Halo player actually cares about this stuff, and if they do, put it in the game, don't make us by books that we will read once then never touch again.

Halo 2: Once again, no reason for anything, just, "yeah he is back on Earth and you have to shoot more aliens, even when playing as one." I think we are seeing a trend here. When we left off Master Chief was stranded in space so how is he back on Earth? Why are we opening up with a trial for an Elite? Can we get some background without having to buy a book that gives us this, please?

Halo 3: Okay so we know where the Chief left off, so that is a non-issue this time. BUT THEN, "wait I thought we left you guys on that Halo, how the fuck did you beat Chief to Earth, how did you get here, where are the Elites that were apparently with you, will this series ever explain anything in the games?"

Halo 4: Okay now shit gets messy. Not only do we have our first acknowledgement in a game of the expanded universe, it also seems to forget stuff that happened back in Halo 3. One passing mention that the Elites helped humanity through the war and it's dropped, leaving the player to blast their way through hordes of Elites, Grunts, and Jackals for most of the game. Oh but apparently they're a splinter faction. Great, where if the in game proof? Why do none of the humans mention this? Better yet, show me some friendly Elites, GOD!

Anyone else?

Edit: Okay, with several people now having told me off for picking on Halos 1-3 I have to respond somehow. Um, I'm spreading the love? You know, pick on one game pick on the others. Yeah I'm not very attached to the Halo series.

 

[ServebotFrank]

No, the king is Gears of War. Also you were definitely just reaching for some of this. The Fall of Reach wasn't made until years after Halo 1 was released. They don't release expanded media before a game becomes popular, that's stupid. Also I'm confused as to why you were pissed about the opening to Halo 1. It didn't need a prologue and that's why it didn't have one, You'll notice that well designed games prefer not to explain shit because they know the player isn't an idiot. Hell, the opening was pretty much just the beginning scene from the very first Star Wars movie, you'll notice that movie didn't explain shit and just preferred for you to just figure it out. The thought process is very fucking similar, "Hm, I guess these guys are escaping something because they're talking about shaking something off their tail, oh aliens so I guess that's the antagonist."

As for Halo 2, it doesn't matter how he got back to Earth and I just assumed he piloted the thing back to Earth because he knew what he was doing or decided to fly until he found a friendly ship or base and get back to Earth. As for the Arbiter, you really couldn't piece that together? You couldn't figure out that the elite was on trial due to fucking up his command on Halo? Do you really need a game to flat out tell you what's going on? It was damn obvious considering he was testifying and being condemned for not stopping Chief from destroying Halo. I mean I don't consider these games to be classics or masterpieces but they were pretty fucking clear with how shit happened and if you didn't know what was going on then you really need to learn to pay attention.

Your only legit complaint was Halo 3 and possibly 4 because I haven't played that one.

Gears of War didn't get bad until 3 when it took place so long after Gears 2 that I got lost such as when Dizzy or whatever the Cowboy's name showed up when I last saw him dueling with Skorge.

 

[wolf thing]

i agree with halo, the fourth games writting was total shite, it was full of plot holes and bad dialog and relide on you having read the books, while still retconing all of its universe, just shite writing and it blows my mind that people defends is writing.

 

[Ruley]

I had read the books for Halo 4 and i was still lost.

First rule of extended media content. assume that your reader hasn't seen any of the other media except the one they have in their hands. feel free to add information for those that will understand the references but don't make them integral to the plots!

Why didn't this game just ship with the book trilogy?

 

[roushutsu]

I feel Final Fantasy is starting to get that way. FF7 has gotten so many games, movies, and books now that trying to keep track of all of the new and old information is tiring. To make matters worse, some of the extra things haven't left Japan, so any references to say "Before Crisis" is gonna be lost since we haven't gotten it. And with all this talk about a remake that people are demanding, I find it hard to believe they will remake the game without including all of this new information that they've been retconning and adding in for consistency's sake.

Then we have poor 13 that's spawned a series of its own despite the poor writing it has. Having to constantly refer to the in-game library to find out what the hell is going on and what people are talking about is pretty bad. And again, we have an entire game that hasn't left Japan's shores, so if the newly "announced" 15 makes any references to it, we're going to be lost.

 

[FoolKiller]

No, the king is Gears of War. Also you were definitely just reaching for some of this. The Fall of Reach wasn't made until years after Halo 1 was released.

Frank was reaching???

On to more serious matters. You should do your research before typing garbage. The novel Fall of Reach was actually published a couple of weeks before the game was. I know it was released that soon as I got the novel as a Christmas present that year.

As for the extended media, I find it tiresome sometimes but it is a good way for a franchise to payroll future installments of games. And if the games are done properly then there is no need to use the expanded universe media unless you want to.

 

[Zantos]

I wouldn't say Halo, since it doesn't actually rely on it. You can read the books, it will give you more information about the universe, but as someone that has never seen anything other than what the game has put immediately in front of me I have never had a problem with Halo. I didn't have any trouble with any of the things listed. I'm sorry, I just really don't see the problem here.

As for series that do rely on you to have seen or read other things, Warhammer 40k. It's just been going for so long by this point that I think it expects you to have some idea on who the factions are, the backstory and the tech. The first couple of books I read and games I played ended up having to involve a lot of looking up to see who people are. Though that said, I think I'd have had less trouble if I'd started with Space Wolf. It gives a fairly good account on becoming a Space Marine.

 

[Izanagi009_v1legacy]

This may be an odd choice for this thread but the Blazblue series is starting to get a bit bogged down by Expanded universe media. This is because of the decision by Mori and Arc system works to use material from the Phase Shift light novels to introduce characters and concepts previously heard of in passing. In particular, Kushinada's Linchpin and Celica A. Mercury. The good news is that Mori will try to weave the light novel material into the game but it still would be missing quite a lot

Blazblue: Phase Shift [http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=BlazBlue]

 

[Mahoshonen]

The six Star Wars movies are pretty self contained, but once you step into anything outside the films, it feels like I have to have a wiki open to explain what the hell is going on (which exists, but that's not the point). The point that I always remember is when reading one book where it describes something Han Solo did that sounded completely out of character. It was only after digging through pages on the official wiki that I was able to get some context to what happened. And although things made more sense once I had all the information, it didn't help that the book being referred to was written 25 years prior to the book asking me to get that reference.

 

[DocMcCray]

No, the king is Gears of War.

/snip

Gears of War didn't get bad until 3 when it took place so long after Gears 2 that I got lost such as when Dizzy or whatever the Cowboy's name showed up when I last saw him dueling with Skorge.

^This.

The books to close plot holes extremely well. If you read the books.

In the games they talk about a lot of instances that boil down to "Remember that time/battle?"

Cases in point:
Dizzy and Skorge (as mentioned.)
Anvil gate (why was it important?)
Maria (what happened to her? Why was she missing? Etc...)
Marcus being put in prison in the first place.
Bernie. (She is *SUPER* important in the expanded universe.)
But most of all, The Pendulum Wars.

 

[Neverhoodian]

I don't see a problem with the Bungie-era Halo games. Yes it has a plethora of "Expanded Universe" material, but you really don't need to know any of it to understand the gist of the story. The first game's manual does a fine job explaining the backstory. Since it's an official document included with the game, I don't count it as "Expanded Universe" material. Even if you didn't read the manual, it shouldn't be too hard to figure things out: humans good, aliens bad, you are our last hope, etc. Just because a story begins in medias res doesn't mean it sucks at storytelling.

I'll admit the subsequent two Halo games have some head-scratching moments for those unfamiliar with the books ("Wait, how did Sgt. Johnson survive the first game?"), but in all honesty I don't think it mattered all that much in the grand scheme of the story. Everyone I've talked to that played the games but never read the books just shrugged their shoulders and chalked them up as acceptable breaks for the sake of gameplay.

Moreover, I would argue that a fan's knowledge of EU material lessened their enjoyment of Halo: Reach, since that game threw away the pre-existing canon from The Fall of Reach and replaced it with its own. This wouldn't have stung quite so much if the two stories weren't written by the same author and the book wasn't marketed as the "official" prequel to Halo: CE prior to Halo: Reach

I can't really comment on Halo 4, as I've never played it and have no plans on doing so (because the fight was finished, dammit). However, the general consensus I've heard is that the plot is genuinely confusing at times unless you watched the Forward Unto Dawn video series.

The point I'm trying to make is, in general, the story for the Bungie-era Halo games can be as simple or complex as you want it to be. You don't have to read all the books to understand what's going on and have a good time.

 

[cojo965]

The six Star Wars movies are pretty self contained, but once you step into anything outside the films, it feels like I have to have a wiki open to explain what the hell is going on (which exists, but that's not the point). The point that I always remember is when reading one book where it describes something Han Solo did that sounded completely out of character. It was only after digging through pages on the official wiki that I was able to get some context to what happened. And although things made more sense once I had all the information, it didn't help that the book being referred to was written 25 years prior to the book asking me to get that reference.

Exactly. The guy comparing Star Wars and Halo CE's openings forgot that Star Wars established important characters and their personalities early on. While Halo people were established, but character and personality were lacking. I honestly can only remember Guilty Spark having any personality and that's not a good sign.

 

[AD-Stu]

mass effect 3 was bad for it. from introducing a pile of characters off camera as such through to killing some on twitter. which is a low point for gaming

Tend to agree - I was the kind of nerd who'd read all the books and comics before the game came out so it all seemed pretty smooth to me. But the reactions of a lot of people after the game came out made me realise a lot of it was probably shoehorned in.

Kai Leng was probably the biggest one. If you've read the books then he's properly built up as a legit badass and coming across him in the game is a cool moment. If you haven't though, then he's just some annoying plot-armoured douchebag.

Kahlee Sanders was another one though, I guess it probably seems weird that we're supposed to have been so close to Anderson all this time, but we only find out now that he's had a girlfriend / love interest all this time. Same with going to Grissom Academy, it's a cool thing if you've read the books but it's a WTF come out of nowhere thing if you haven't. And again with Aria being kicked out of Omega and Cerberus taking over, that's dropped in without any real explanation if you haven't read the comics.

 

[Vrex360]

I disagree with the first Halo games at least. In Halo one you at least understand that you are at war with the Covenant and have arrived on a Halo ring, plus there was a little backstory in the game manual. If nothing else the basi context was there, you are Masterchief, your ally is Cortana, you serve captain Keyes, the Covenant want you dead and here is a Halo ring. We don't need to know the whole backstory to at least understand the main context of that.
Halo 2 had similar narrative structure, the elite on trial is being charged with failing to protect the Halo ring so we immediatley have a recap of the events of the first game and understand what the ring means to the covenant. We meet the character who will become the Arbiter and we meet the villain.
Come Halo 3 while yet how Johnson and the Arbiter beat you there is unexplained, everything else follows up pretty consistent from Halo 2's ending and wraps up the lose ends.
Basically the trilogy gives you all that you needed to know and if you wanted backstory or to know more about the Halo universe you could read to books to flesh them out. It wasn't essential to know that the Arbiter's name is actually Thel Vadam but it is kind of cool to know that for example.

But Halo 4? Jesus christ, nothing is explained and it gives so little exposition and expects the player to have read the books to understand even basic things like who the villain is. This is a fault 343i openly admit to no less but it is so strange to see them admit that they are trying to get the 'COD crowd' into Halo and attract new audiences to the Halo brand and then see them set up a story more or less guarenteed to alienate new timers by offering no narrative handholds at all.

 

[Mangod]

I'd say WoW, if not for the fact that the story in-game and the EU novels/manga/coloring books apparently exist in paralel universes with some slight overlap here and there...

As for 40k, I'd say that one gets of a bit easy by the fact that it's less a story and more of a very dark and depressing setting where everyone is a berk.

 

[Glongpre]

I'm sure that you guys have found at least one of these in your time, so let me start us off with what I find to be the current king in this regard: Halo. Ugh, where to start here?

Halo CE: The first game has no set-up, no explanation of what the fuck is happening, and no satisfactory reason to care about anyone. It seems that the game expects the player to have read Fall of Reach to get those answers. Sorry guys, not every Halo player actually cares about this stuff, and if they do, put it in the game, don't make us by books that we will read once then never touch again.

Halo 2: Once again, no reason for anything, just, "yeah he is back on Earth and you have to shoot more aliens, even when playing as one." I think we are seeing a trend here. When we left off Master Chief was stranded in space so how is he back on Earth? Why are we opening up with a trial for an Elite? Can we get some background without having to buy a book that gives us this, please?

Halo 3: Okay so we know where the Chief left off, so that is a non-issue this time. BUT THEN, "wait I thought we left you guys on that Halo, how the fuck did you beat Chief to Earth, how did you get here, where are the Elites that were apparently with you, will this series ever explain anything in the games?"

Halo 4: Okay now shit gets messy. Not only do we have our first acknowledgement in a game of the expanded universe, it also seems to forget stuff that happened back in Halo 3. One passing mention that the Elites helped humanity through the war and it's dropped, leaving the player to blast their way through hordes of Elites, Grunts, and Jackals for most of the game. Oh but apparently they're a splinter faction. Great, where if the in game proof? Why do none of the humans mention this? Better yet, show me some friendly Elites, GOD!

Anyone else?

Did you actually pay attention to the plot or..? I will agree that halo 4 could have explained more, but the basics were explained.

Also, you need to compose yourself before you write something like this, because emotion can get in the way.

 

[Korten12]

No, the king is Gears of War. Also you were definitely just reaching for some of this. The Fall of Reach wasn't made until years after Halo 1 was released.

Incorrect. Fall of Reach was released October 30th, 2001, and rereleased in 2010.

Halo 1 was released November 15th, 2001.

Edit: Damn Ninja...

 

[Korten12]

i agree with halo, the fourth games writting was total shite, it was full of plot holes and bad dialog and relide on you having read the books, while still retconing all of its universe, just shite writing and it blows my mind that people defends is writing.

Halo 4 didn't fucking retcon ANYTHNG. Anyone who argues that it does doesn't know what they're talking about and that blows my mind by the sheer stupidity of it.

 

[wolf thing]

i agree with halo, the fourth games writting was total shite, it was full of plot holes and bad dialog and relide on you having read the books, while still retconing all of its universe, just shite writing and it blows my mind that people defends is writing.

Halo 4 didn't fucking retcon ANYTHNG. Anyone who argues that it does doesn't know what they're talking about and that blows my mind by the sheer stupidity of it.

The Halo series is constantly retconing things, things get introduced in the books (mainly because there was so little story/world bulding in halo one) and then changed in the games, which is bad because people always say that you NEED to read the books to get the story.

As for halo 4 spsicaly: making the forerunners aliens, or shoould i say so alien, so far the game were hinting that the forerunner were very human, which is why they could use there technalogies which gets retcon in halo 4.

Making the human an ages old spacefaring race, this is not only a retcon, but also bad writting as space faring race are difficult to cover up. The retcon part is that the whole series is based apoun an acent alien races which the new race (humane covanauts), and there races interacting with them, having them both alive and space-faring changes the plot there for is a retcon.

And there is more, though out the whole series some, are more obuils than others. Retcons are bad writting it shows that the writting can not remain costant with there story telling. some good games have retcon there storys but that does not make the retconing bad.

I can tell you are a fan of the series other wise you would not that comment, i don ask you to dislike the series only to relise the problem with it, in this case is it bad narrative and the retcons and i have only talked about the retcons.