Seriously people, stop the bitching (Dragon age 2...and other games)

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Godhead

Dib dib dib, dob dob dob.
May 25, 2009
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I have played the demo for Dragon Age 2. I did not like it. I did not like the fact that you could not go out to isometric view, or the fact that you weren't able to do anything to your inventory or appearance (in the demo). That they made the Darkspawn look like they just took a bath in bleach. Or that it feels like you can just tell each of your party members to just basic attack an enemy and let them do everything without you having to do any amount of micromanaging. I know that a lot of this might seem petty to you, but overall it had a very significant impact on me. (I would prefer the traditional speech system, however it could be voiced I just prefer to know exactly what I'm saying.) And just because we don't agree with the views that you had doesn't mean we're all bitching. (Although it's a given that at least a few people are going to ***** for the sake of bitching.)

Edit: If I come off as bitching or being an elitist, i sincerely apologize.
 

Continuity

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May 20, 2010
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Whargarble said:
This is basically it. I can fully get behind people who present a reasonable argument as to why something may not be as good as the original. But if someone plays the demo for five minutes and declares that the game is "RUINED FOREVER!!1" then I just roll my eyes and sigh. People are resistant to change, even if it might be for the better.
Being resistant to change for the sake of it is bad, granted, but thats not really what this is about, i'm afraid you're missing the point, and the point is a much larger one than just DAO2. In fact I haven't been talking about DAO2 at all in this thread, I didn't like DAO so the advent of DAO2 is insignificant to me.

We're talking about the loss of the RPG genre, and more specifically the relentless dumbing down that (apparently) is even visible in series like DAO and mass effect, both of which were already unpalatably dumbed down in the first place if you ask me, never mind the sequels.

These games have every right to exist exactly as they are, but the sad fact is that they being made instead of traditional RPGs. Bioware could of been making something of the calibre of Kotor, or baldurs gate... but rather than have that, instead we get served up this. Its like your favourite brand of whiskey suddenly becoming an alcopop.

Dumbing down may make the experience better for some, but there are those who really enjoy complexity.. I miss the days of AD&D RPGs like Baldurs gate where you had the option of making combat calculations and dice rolls visible on the screen. Or even great games like UFO enemy unknown, ok we're stepping outside of the RPG genre there but that sort of complexity can really make a game.

So what i'm saying is that complexity does not equal bad, and dumbing down does not equal good, it may equal greater profits from a larger audience but that's another thing.
 

starkiller212

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Dec 23, 2010
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wait, did the OP imply that we can't manage our squad's equipment in DA2 or was that just about ME2? I'll probably die if it's the former :(

OT, people have a right to their opinions. Yeah there are some Dbags who generalize and complain about EVERYTHING ('oh everything is casual now, I'm the last line of defense with my stinging internet comments'), but there's also a good number of people with legitimate concerns. Personally, I enjoyed the combat in the demo (felt like a combination of DAO and Jade Empire :) BUT the story of Hawke and how he became an awesome guy doesn't seem interesting to me in the slightest. I would rather have continued the story of the Blights, Wardens, etc., but I'll still give it a chance because Bioware hasn't really let me down yet.
Anyone trying to tell me that I'm just being whiny or stubborn and I should blindly accept everything that they do is far worse than any elitists, IMHO.
 

DarkhoIlow

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Dec 31, 2009
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I liked the demo and the changes that they've made.

The combat was great,our hero finally has a voice and the conversation wheel a la Mass Effect is a bit so so.Wanted more options,but this will do I guess.

Guess we'll just have to wait and see with the full release how's it's gonna be,but I'm looking forward to playing it.
 

Terminal Blue

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Feb 18, 2010
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Continuity said:
These games have every right to exist exactly as they are, but the sad fact is that they being made instead of traditional RPGs. Bioware could of been making something of the calibre of Kotor, or baldurs gate... but rather than have that, instead we get served up this. Its like your favourite brand of whiskey suddenly becoming an alcopop.
DA:O was considerably more complicated than either of those games mechanics-wise. Are you simply complaining because it didn't use an existing D20 system (or variant thereof?) Neverwinter Nights would be a better example because it's built on the more complicated 3.5 rules, but even there DA:O definitely kept pace with it.

Speaking as someone who really loved DA:O though, I'm not getting the hate for DA2 at all.

Firstly, it doesn't play like an action game at all. Sure, there's that bit in the beginning of the demo where you're slaughtering darkspawn in one hit, but that's a deliberately easy tutorial section. For most of the demo I found the action considerably slower than Origins, characters seem to be slightly more resilient all around and the tactical use of abilities hasn't really changed. It was a bit easier, sure, but DA:O on normal mode was hard enough to put a lot of people off so you can see where they're going there. I'm sure the harder difficulty modes will still be hard.

Secondly, they've cut down abilities, but seriously, how many of the abilities in DA:O were you using? It's one thing to boast a vast an expansive character creation system but if some of those options are useless compared to others you may as well not include them. In DA2 it feels like everything is much more useful and has a major effect without being an automatic game winner, which could actually make character building more interesting.

Thirdly, a bigger focus on visuals. Seriously RPG fans, what the hell happened to you? You think those people playing the first text based RPGs and Roguelikes wouldn't have killed for even a visual representation of what was going on, let alone one as stylish and cinematic as Dragon Age 2?

The things which actually worried me are things you can't include in the demo. Origins, for example, was huge because it used a fairly limited range of models and graphical environments. With more visual complexity comes more disk space requirements which means our poor chuggy old consoles are going to need to sacrifice something, and I fear that something will be length and scale. This was the big problem with ME2, not that it had been 'dumbed down' (the original was so easily broken it was laughable and claim it was somehow more mentally demanding is ridiculous) but that it lost the sense of epic scope and scale and became a series of beautiful but relatively restrictive shooting galleries.

But we won't really know until the full game is released, so having a hissy fit about that seems counter-productive.
 

The Lunatic

Princess
Jun 3, 2010
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I've not said a word about it, but, do agree with the general idea that it's given more of a console friendly face.
 

Legion

Were it so easy
Oct 2, 2008
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Woodsey said:
I'm with you, sir!

The best thing is that the only thing that has actually changed about DA2's gameplay is they've added the conversation wheel and a character voice, yet everyone's still bitching off aobut it.

You know what the conversation wheel does that's different to the old conversation-response layout? It puts it in a circle, order the choices from good to bad and shortens them slightly to keep the conversation pace up.

It really is exactly the same - if you counted all the responses you get on a wheel compared to the old system, there'd be hardly any distinguishable difference either way.
Nonsense Woodsey! You know have to press the button every time you want to attack! That's dumbing it down, it's no longer an RPG, don't you see?!

I have actually seen people on the Bioware forums say both of these things.
 

Sov.reign

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Oct 14, 2009
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He's not saying that you can't judge whether or not to buy a game based on a demo, he's saying will you stop playing the demo and then whining like you paid full price, because you didn't like it.

And some demos are bad, just awful and the full game can be so much more than you'd think from the demo. Eg The darkness. Good game, crap demo.
 

Woodsey

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Aug 9, 2009
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Legion said:
Woodsey said:
I'm with you, sir!

The best thing is that the only thing that has actually changed about DA2's gameplay is they've added the conversation wheel and a character voice, yet everyone's still bitching off aobut it.

You know what the conversation wheel does that's different to the old conversation-response layout? It puts it in a circle, order the choices from good to bad and shortens them slightly to keep the conversation pace up.

It really is exactly the same - if you counted all the responses you get on a wheel compared to the old system, there'd be hardly any distinguishable difference either way.
Nonsense Woodsey! You know have to press the button every time you want to attack!
But... no you don't?! xD
 

Legion

Were it so easy
Oct 2, 2008
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Woodsey said:
Legion said:
Woodsey said:
I'm with you, sir!

The best thing is that the only thing that has actually changed about DA2's gameplay is they've added the conversation wheel and a character voice, yet everyone's still bitching off aobut it.

You know what the conversation wheel does that's different to the old conversation-response layout? It puts it in a circle, order the choices from good to bad and shortens them slightly to keep the conversation pace up.

It really is exactly the same - if you counted all the responses you get on a wheel compared to the old system, there'd be hardly any distinguishable difference either way.
Nonsense Woodsey! You know have to press the button every time you want to attack!
But... no you don't?! xD
You expect whiners to take the time to see if it's possible to change settings; when it is much easier to log into the Bioware forums, create an account, receive a confirmation email, confirm their account and then create a thread to complain about it when it has been complained about in 200 other threads?

The most amusing comparison I have seen is that the combat is like JRPG's.
 

Xanadu84

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Apr 9, 2008
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I would have preferred the more DA1/BG style of gameplay, rather then the more ME style they are going for. I would like a little more variety in my Bioware games, rather then all of them being variants on Mass Effect. However, I am sure that both approaches would be good, and even the console-friendly Mass Effect series hardly shorted PC players. So I'm satisfied. Id prefer the Dragon Age 1 style, but hey, Im not making the game, am I?
 

RatRace123

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Dec 1, 2009
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I'll admit, I was amongst those who were a bit peeved when it was announced you'd play as Hawke, a human (got sort of an elven preference), I warmed up to the champion of Kirkwall fairly quickly though.

I like the dialogue wheel, I felt that, especially after Mass Effect, the Origins conversation system felt a little outdated.

As for the combat, well, on PCs, I've heard apart from being generally faster, the tactical combat system remains unchanged, and on consoles, what was changed was definitely for the better. Even in the demo, depending on your class you can't just wail on the A or X button and expect to live, you still need to use strategy and to spend your skill points wisely, so it still has all the best parts of origins in it.

Whatever, the vocal minority will never be pleased no matter what you do.
Haters just gotta be hatin'.
 

Sovereignty

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Jan 25, 2010
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Wow. All I gathered from the first part of this ridiculous post was,

"U PPL R WRONG."
"DA2 IS GUNNA BE AWSUM just w8 til it comes out to judge it"

"And no im not fanboi i jus think ppl shuld stop h8ing such a good game b4 it comes out."

"aftr all ur opninons r wrong."




And my response...

Shut your mouth. I'm glad people are complaining. Hopefully it's not too late, and they can fix the game, especially if the demo was so disappointing.
 

Varitel

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Jan 22, 2011
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Don't get me wrong, I liked Dragon Age: Origins, but I never thought that it really had anything distinctive about its gameplay anyway. Though the story was strong and the gameplay was fine, it seems to me as though it was begging for some changes in the first place. Then again, I haven't played the demo, so for all I know DA2 is criminally awful.
 

Snotnarok

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Nov 17, 2008
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Macrobstar said:
Snotnarok said:
I haven't seen a single video/trailer/bit of news on DA 2 till I played the demo, and it was better in every way than DA1. The only time I'll complain is in the case of Other: M and I was right in every damn way that game was horrible before it was out.
Yes. finally a man who see's sense, all they have done with DA2 is improve
See I love games that have text for talking as much as games that have only have spoken dialogue. But DA1 while wonderfully written and acted had one HUGE flaw...the main character didn't talk!! I know that would have made the tons more acting and money but it felt like everyone was interrupting me before I could talk. All talk or no talk.
 

ThePirateMan

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Jul 15, 2009
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fakeangel said:
ThePirateMan said:
Except that the wheel only looks like the Mass Effect one, since it is not the DA equivalent of Paragon, neutral and Renegade, instead we have this:
* Olive branch: Peaceful, diplomatic..
* Angel figure: Kind and considerate.

* Purple theater mask: Sarcastic, funny.
* Purple diamond: Charming. [1]

* Fist: Aggressive.
* Gavel: Decisive.

* Spinning arrows: Hawke decides.
* Head: Companion decides.

* Red heart: Flirty.

* Tick: Agreement.
* Cross: Refusal.
* Coins: Demand for money.

* Question Mark: Questioning.
Thank you, thank you, thaaaank you. Seeing that list lifted a big weight of doubt off of my shoulders. I still don't like the wheel, but it definately seems better then in Mass Effect. Unless I missunderstood you and that's not actualy going to be in the game, but I sure hope I didn't.
 

fakeangel

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Nov 8, 2010
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ThePirateMan said:
fakeangel said:
ThePirateMan said:
Except that the wheel only looks like the Mass Effect one, since it is not the DA equivalent of Paragon, neutral and Renegade, instead we have this:
* Olive branch: Peaceful, diplomatic..
* Angel figure: Kind and considerate.

* Purple theater mask: Sarcastic, funny.
* Purple diamond: Charming. [1]

* Fist: Aggressive.
* Gavel: Decisive.

* Spinning arrows: Hawke decides.
* Head: Companion decides.

* Red heart: Flirty.

* Tick: Agreement.
* Cross: Refusal.
* Coins: Demand for money.

* Question Mark: Questioning.
Thank you, thank you, thaaaank you. Seeing that list lifted a big weight of doubt off of my shoulders. I still don't like the wheel, but it definately seems better then in Mass Effect. Unless I missunderstood you and that's not actualy going to be in the game, but I sure hope I didn't.
To be clear, there is a wheel, however, when you put your cursor on one of the options, a symbol will appear, and this symbol will say the tone of Hawke speech
 

Super Toast

Supreme Overlord of the Basement
Dec 10, 2009
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i64ever said:
Super Toast said:
http://www.somethingawful.com/d/video-game-article/dragon-age-reaction.php

I think this sums it up pretty well. It's just elitists being idiots. Pretty usual stuff, really.
Wow, that is a bad website! The title "Something Awful" must only refer to itself. They claim to know what the ENTIRE INTERNET is thinking? The ENTIRE INTERNET can't agree on anything! Ever. Its like a million headed hydra with each head savagely mauling its neighbors. You'd get fanboys versus haters arguing about the merits of jumping naked into a wood chipper! Yes, I have heard some of those opinions "Something Awful" presents. I have also read posts from fans pledging their undying loyalty to DA2 based on just watching a minute of cutscenes on youtube. Neither group sounds particularly logical. But neither group IS THE INTERNET!
It's just hyperbole. Also, you must be new to the internet if you don't know what Something Awful is. In which case, welcome! Here's a bit of friendly advice: Don't treat everything as serious business.
 

Zhukov

The Laughing Arsehole
Dec 29, 2009
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Bitching makes the internet go round.

Just look at any thread in any forum anywhere. There will be bitching. Hell, some of it will be mine.