Seriously though, F***K the Alliance.

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They're also really stupid and lazy.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/shamusplays/8251-Shamus-Plays-WoW-1-Its-An-Imps-Life

hehe, but anyway. I preferred the Alliance in the Warcraft games. Prefer Hoard in World of Warcraft. Well did, when I played World of Warcraft anyway...
 

Waaghpowa

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Laurie Barnes said:
Secondly, they are racist. The hatred for the Horde is based almost entirely on race and cultural ignorance, and specifically Wrynn's hatred for the orcs, and lack of compassion for the fact that Orc conduct is a direct result of demonic influence.
I'd just like to mention that the reason Varian hates orcs was because he was put into slavery and forced to fight in arenas after he lost his memory.

Also, see my above post.
 

spectrenihlus

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WaaghPowa said:
Laurie Barnes said:
Secondly, they are racist. The hatred for the Horde is based almost entirely on race and cultural ignorance, and specifically Wrynn's hatred for the orcs, and lack of compassion for the fact that Orc conduct is a direct result of demonic influence.
I'd just like to mention that the reason Varian hates orcs was because he was put into slavery and forced to fight in arenas after he lost his memory.

Also, see my above post.
Let's not forget that Garona straight up backstabbed his father the previous King of Stormwind. Varian has very legitimate reasons for hating the horde.
 

Waaghpowa

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spectrenihlus said:
WaaghPowa said:
Laurie Barnes said:
Secondly, they are racist. The hatred for the Horde is based almost entirely on race and cultural ignorance, and specifically Wrynn's hatred for the orcs, and lack of compassion for the fact that Orc conduct is a direct result of demonic influence.
I'd just like to mention that the reason Varian hates orcs was because he was put into slavery and forced to fight in arenas after he lost his memory.

Also, see my above post.
Let's not forget that Garona straight up backstabbed his father the previous King of Stormwind. Varian has very legitimate reasons for hating the horde.
Legitimate, yes. My issue is that he tends to make decisions based on that hatred rather than reason.
 

Dalek Caan

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I once thought the Horde were the definite bad guys of WoW since I always played as Alliance hunter and most quests involve the killing of horde soldiers. Then I started by troll hunter and now my views have changed. I mean if I lived in some desolate waste and some cocky humans were gloating about there "grass" and "volcanic water" and "Swiss watches" then I would gladly start a war with them just to take them down a notch. I have to say that I have no idea why the Horde and Alliance are at each others throats. OP makes some good points.
 

spectrenihlus

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WaaghPowa said:
spectrenihlus said:
WaaghPowa said:
Laurie Barnes said:
Secondly, they are racist. The hatred for the Horde is based almost entirely on race and cultural ignorance, and specifically Wrynn's hatred for the orcs, and lack of compassion for the fact that Orc conduct is a direct result of demonic influence.
I'd just like to mention that the reason Varian hates orcs was because he was put into slavery and forced to fight in arenas after he lost his memory.

Also, see my above post.
Let's not forget that Garona straight up backstabbed his father the previous King of Stormwind. Varian has very legitimate reasons for hating the horde.
Legitimate, yes. My issue is that he tends to make decisions based on that hatred rather than reason.
Too be fair I haven't played WoW for 2 years but I do read up on what's happening in the story. But I agree with him when he went to war with the Horde over what he found in the Undercity. The Forsaken are developing the plague and the horde are turning a blind eye to it, let's not forget all those battlegrounds where the Horde are the agresssor.
 

Ordinaryundone

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You have to remember, the Horde is a very tenuous alliance made up of people that the Alliance have to reason to sympathize with. The Orcs, while supposedly changed, are still very much susceptible to demonic influence, not to mention their long and bloody wars with humanity. The Trolls are little more than savages, not even united amongst their own tribes. The Blood Elves have already betrayed the Alliance once, and are known to associate with demons. And then their is the Undead....do you honestly believe, after how badly the Scourge have wrecked things that any human in their right mind would willingly associate with ANY undead, civilized or not? The Tauren are alright, but too loyal to the Horde to try and bridge the gap, and The Goblins are just...well....goblins.

You also forget that their ARE sympathetic humans, like Jania Proudmoore. Most of the people who've actually worked with the Orcs are fine with them. But your average layperson only remembers the wars, and only sees their willingness to associate with savages, traitors, and monsters. And many of the other groups of the Alliance don't have any reason to like the other races. The Dranei have plenty of reasons to hate the Blood Elves, or any race that has associated with Demons (though they may sympathize with the Orcs history of slavery to them). The Dark Elves hate the Undead.
 

Waaghpowa

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spectrenihlus said:
Too be fair I haven't played WoW for 2 years but I do read up on what's happening in the story. But I agree with him when he went to war with the Horde over what he found in the Undercity. The Forsaken are developing the plague and the horde are turning a blind eye to it, let's not forget all those battlegrounds where the Horde are the agresssor.
The forsaken and the undead are 2 different groups. The forsaken are the ones who schemed in the background under the influence of Malganis and focus on killing all those who are "Living", horde or otherwise. Majority of the undead are loyal to Sylvannis and weren't responsible for the events that occurred at the Wrath gates.

The "Blind eye" was under the assumption that the plague was being developed to battle the Lich King, which it did but ended up killing a whole lot of their own and alliance. Everyone was deceived and everyone took casualties.
 

Jegsimmons

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how about...fuck both and make your own alliance of ruthless mercenaries that will eventually kill them both.

because i'm an evil genius!!! MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!
 

spectrenihlus

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WaaghPowa said:
spectrenihlus said:
Too be fair I haven't played WoW for 2 years but I do read up on what's happening in the story. But I agree with him when he went to war with the Horde over what he found in the Undercity. The Forsaken are developing the plague and the horde are turning a blind eye to it, let's not forget all those battlegrounds where the Horde are the agresssor.
The forsaken and the undead are 2 different groups. The forsaken are the ones who schemed in the background under the influence of Malganis and focus on killing all those who are "Living", horde or otherwise. Majority of the undead are loyal to Sylvannis and weren't responsible for the events that occurred at the Wrath gates.

The "Blind eye" was under the assumption that the plague was being developed to battle the Lich King, which it did but ended up killing a whole lot of their own and alliance. Everyone was deceived and everyone took casualties.
That does not forgive the horde aggression in the battlegrounds.
 

Waaghpowa

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spectrenihlus said:
That does not forgive the horde aggression in the battlegrounds.
Warsong, yes since they invaded Night elf territory for resouces, The Arathi Basin is kind of a grey area since the undead were in the area when they were turned and both sides want the resources. Alterac Valley was because the Frostwolf clan had settled there and the Dwarves moved in. I'm not saying that the Horde are innocent of anything, I'm just saying that there's more to things than is told on the Alliance side in regards to the Horde.
 

The Madman

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Ordinaryundone said:
The Dranei have plenty of reasons to hate the Blood Elves, or any race that has associated with Demons (though they may sympathize with the Orcs history of slavery to them). The Dark Elves hate the Undead.
Not likely.


Orcs used Dranei as their practice run before invading Azeroth.

My main problem with the Horde is their selfishness as a faction. Yes yes, I know, fictional and all that but this is a nerdy gaming forum. Anyway, what have the Orcs ever done to try and make good the wrongs they've done? They say "Demons made me do it!" and expect everyone to just forgive them unconditionally, and when they don't get that, the Orcs get violent under some sort of impression their being oppressed. What have the Orcs as a people ever done to try and make good the wrongs they've done? I mean they tried to commit genocide. Twice. And both times nearly succeeded. I'm asking for one deed of selfless kindness to try as a people to set good the wrongs they committed.

Can't think of a single example.

It's like a drunk driver saying "But I was drunk, not my fault!" and I hate that. Especially when you consider, again, that the Orcs willingly fell into line behind the Demons. They actively decided that yes, this is what they want. From what I understand the only Orcs that refused were the Frostwolf clan (Thralls), but they only represent a tiny fraction of a massive population lusting for blood and conflict, to hell with the consequences.

Then when it's over and they've lost they expect sympathy? Forget that. I say kick the Orcs back through the portal to their dying world and slam the door shut behind em. Let em reap what they sewed. They can take the Forsaken with em too. Rest of the Horde factions I figure things could be worked out with, but seriously, screw the Orcs and their Horde.
 

kalt_13

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I always saw the aliance as the bad guys. Thankfully I have shaken my wow addiction tho.
 

spectrenihlus

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WaaghPowa said:
spectrenihlus said:
That does not forgive the horde aggression in the battlegrounds.
Warsong, yes since they invaded Night elf territory for resouces, The Arathi Basin is kind of a grey area since the undead were in the area when they were turned and both sides want the resources. Alterac Valley was because the Frostwolf clan had settled there and the Dwarves moved in. I'm not saying that the Horde are innocent of anything, I'm just saying that there's more to things than is told on the Alliance side in regards to the Horde.
The dwarves were attacked by the Frostwolf clan, the dwarves merely wanted to go on an archeological expedition and the Frostwolves opened up with a first strike. I agree that the two factions should be working together but the alliance has very legitimate reasons for going to war with the horde. On another point the Forsaken should be working on a cure for their undeath instead of further developing a plague that is irrelevant now that the Lich King is dead.
 

Terminal Blue

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spectrenihlus said:
I agree that the two factions should be working together but the alliance has very legitimate reasons for going to war with the horde. On another point the Forsaken should be working on a cure for their undeath instead of further developing a plague that is irrelevant now that the Lich King is dead.
In the words of vampire Sam Niell, what's to cure?

Above and beyond the fact it seems to be practically impossible (if I remember right there is one, and only one, sentient undead guy in the lore who has ever been restored to life) the Forsaken have also developed their own culture which generally doesn't see their undead state as an impediment. Many Forsaken seem to pretty much regard living humans (and to a lesser extent other living creatures) as little more than vermin, or at least outright inferior. I think other races in the Horde do sometimes think about trying to cure the Forsaken out of compassion, but the Forsaken themselves don't really care. They are what they are, and those who can't accept it kill themselves or revert to mindlessness.

Secondly, the Forsaken are in open war on several fronts. Their cataclysm story sees them fighting what is essentially a total war, in which both sides use magic to 'recruit' the human population of Lordaeron to their side (either by infecting them with the worgen curse, or raising them from the dead as new Forsaken). The Forsaken leadership see themselves (with good reason) as the heirs to the Lordaeron Empire. In their mind, the living creatures who live in Lordaeron are usurpers who refuse to recognize their ancestral rights out of sheer prejudice against the undead, and for the most part they're right. The alliance (culturally monolothic and devoted to a single religion which abhors the undead) would never have accepted a kingdom of zombies as equals. The horde (culturally diverse with a wide range of religious beliefs and interpretations) did.

Finally, the plague. The Forsaken use poisons and diseases as weapons because, being dead, they're immune to most of them. They don't have limitless numbers as they are dependent on either liberating mindless undead from the scourge or using the Val'kyr. Forsaken warfare hinges on bioweapons, which is why they are constantly trying to produce new ones.

A combination of the three factors above means that curing death is not very high on the agenda. Maybe not admirable, but understandable. The forsaken are not idealists, their experiences have largely beaten the idealism out of them as a race. They still have the mentality they earned fighting an unwinnable war for their survival against overwhelming odds, this doesn't leave much time for high idealism and moral reflection.

The Forsaken are not really Horde. Ultimately they are their own faction and many of them don't really care about the living all that much. Heck, there's a cutscene I recently encountered in which Drek'Thar spends several minutes slagging off the Forsaken as inhuman monsters (I'm right here, you know!) I think judging the horde as a whole by the actions of the Forsaken is a bit wrong. If the Horde can be accused of anything, it's not reigning the Forsaken in enough, and it doesn't seem to be for want of trying.

The Forsaken are still my favourite race in World of Warcraft though. I'm a sucker for antiheroes, and essentially they are fighting for the survival. If they hadn't joined the horde and the Alliance races had taken Lordaeron, do you think they would have been shown any mercy? If Gilneas had won the war, would they have taken prisoners? The alliance, fundamentally, don't see the Forsaken as people. The 'crime' of the Forsaken is to return the favour.
 

Laser Priest

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How about both sides are terrible and I'm rooting for the people who want to destroy everyone there?
 

Azure-Supernova

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My loyalties pretty much lie with Blood Elves and Blood Elves alone... so it's kind of a one sided thing for me. I've got a few Alliance characters but they don't interest me as much as my legion of Blood Elves do. But I'm pretty sure if you know enough about the lore you'll discover that they're both conveniently equal for the purpose of WoW.
 

DarkhoIlow

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I have played this game since the beginning and was quite a lore buff about it(the reason I started playing was because I wanted to find out what's going to happen after W3 The Frozen Throne has ended).

I have played both Horde and Alliance for at least 2 years each and I have read every single quest and everything regarding lore that there is and I can say that I always found the Horde to be more honorable than the Alliance.

Therefore,FOR THE HORDE!

PS: If you want to know which faction is cooler then know that Thrall who is the only one who can save Azeroth from the Cataclysm is an orc,even though he isn't the Warchief anymore.
 

pezwitch

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SsilverR said:
Yeah, one of the reasons i went with horde is because they're just deeper ... thrall doesn't look it but he's quite compassionate and fair
Thrall isn't the leader of the horde anymore, Garrosh is and I have issues with him. Not that Varian Wrynn is any better, they are both xenophobic jerks.
 

Canid117

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Laurie Barnes said:
Canid117 said:
Laurie Barnes said:
PS. As Yahtzee said they don't even have the hottest girls anymore, in fact your average MALE blood elf is prettier than anything the Alliance has.
I disagree female nelfs are hotter than male Belfs. Maybe its because I am not attracted to men but thats how I feel. Also pretty sure Wryyn was forced to fight as a slave in a horde gladiatorial arena. Sure it was a big mix up but he actually has an excuse unlike Hellscream's little brat. (Who doesn't have a valid reason for hating the alliance other than "My Daddy did.")
An intelligent person would know that I was calling the Blood Elves girly, not assume I am gay, thank you. As for Hellscream being a brat, I suppose that is fair because the Alliance never put a child in charge.
I was merely making a joke no need to get testy. But Hellscream was a whiny arrogant dick who I always saw as forcing Thrall (my favorite character despite being an Alliance player) off the throne. Hellscream is violent and is not helping to bring an end to conflict with Alliance. Thrall and Jaina were working their asses off for peace and pre-slave gladiator FUBAR'ed Wryyn was on his way to a peace summit before Onyxia fucked it up. Varian was forced to fight for his life as a slave. Thats one hell of a Freudian excuse. What does Hellscream have again?