How about games with great depthful mechanics that create challenging and competetive scenarios. This is a good but incomplete list: http://insomnia.ac/reviews/videogame_art/Ekonk said:
Seriously? You can almost win an award for THIS?!
- Thread starter Azaraxzealot
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Well, first off it has to evoke some type of emotional response beyond boredom! Second of all, it needs to have some sort of point, which this really seems to lack. No story, no gameplay, no type of hook at all to make the player interested in exploring further. I'm sure that some can argue it has a point, but this seems very similar to their project 'The Path' in that it's just 'artistic' elements hastily pushed together in hopes that it'll be the sum of it's parts. There's more to art then that, I'm sure, but I'm no expert, those are just two requirements I find they fail in.Ekonk said:
To note, I'm not saying this type of thing won't work. I positively love the mod 'Dear Esther' and gush about it at every turn! Not going to argue whether or not it was a game, but it was compelling as it had a story, voice acting, beautiful music, and an overall point!
It's not a sandbox game, but Monday Night Combat is a pretty fun game, and it was made by an indie company.Azaraxzealot said:
Let's try a comparison between artsy indie games and modern art:
What about this? Do you understand this work? I'll be blunt, it wasn't drawn by a famous artist, but used by one of my favorite authors as a metaphor. Your inability to understand what games like The Graveyard represent is perfectly mirrored in this portion of the story. Don't try to dismiss something you do not understand. It not only makes you look like an idiot, it will also invite people to smack some metaphorical sense into you.
Anyway, Vonnegut to the rescue:
What about this? Do you understand this work? I'll be blunt, it wasn't drawn by a famous artist, but used by one of my favorite authors as a metaphor. Your inability to understand what games like The Graveyard represent is perfectly mirrored in this portion of the story. Don't try to dismiss something you do not understand. It not only makes you look like an idiot, it will also invite people to smack some metaphorical sense into you.
Anyway, Vonnegut to the rescue:
You shouldn't blame the indie communit for The Graveyard winning an award, ghames are an immature medium (especially artisitc games) and they really aren't experienced enough to tell truly artistic games from pointless navel gazing.
Instead blame the developers of the Graveyard for being so artistically bankrupt.
Instead blame the developers of the Graveyard for being so artistically bankrupt.
Hmm, most of us are agreed that Steam is a good thing and it's revolutionised PC gaming, but no-one at Valve won a Nobel prize. The Nobel prize seems to be there to reward people who've done great things but not had a massive pile of cash fall into their lap from their creativity or hard work.
Same deal here, you don't win arty prizes for being popular and fun, you win them for being arty and putting the art before the chance to sell a million copies of generic shooter VIII.
I highly doubt 'Graveyard' was ever put on pause to consider how they could make it more 'fun', after all, Schindler's List wasn't 'fun', but it was, in most opinions a great movie.
'Graveyard' is simply stretching the limited boundaries of what we all consider a 'game' to be, and that can only be a good thing. Daft thing being, as a 'game' it'll mostly be ignored outside of gaming, whereas if it had been called an 'interactive art installation' and put on a screen in a gallery, it'd be far more easily accepted as art.
In the other direction, you've only got to browse Kongregate to find tons of games that will rob you of hours of free time, no you're not going to find the next COD or GTA, because the one guy writing the game in his bedroom doesn't have a spare $50 million to make one.
Same deal here, you don't win arty prizes for being popular and fun, you win them for being arty and putting the art before the chance to sell a million copies of generic shooter VIII.
I highly doubt 'Graveyard' was ever put on pause to consider how they could make it more 'fun', after all, Schindler's List wasn't 'fun', but it was, in most opinions a great movie.
'Graveyard' is simply stretching the limited boundaries of what we all consider a 'game' to be, and that can only be a good thing. Daft thing being, as a 'game' it'll mostly be ignored outside of gaming, whereas if it had been called an 'interactive art installation' and put on a screen in a gallery, it'd be far more easily accepted as art.
In the other direction, you've only got to browse Kongregate to find tons of games that will rob you of hours of free time, no you're not going to find the next COD or GTA, because the one guy writing the game in his bedroom doesn't have a spare $50 million to make one.
It's a green square with an orange line through it. One could likely come up with dozens of interpretations for it. For me, it has the same problem as 'The Graveyard', it's not in the slightest bit compelling, meaningful and doesn't stir up any emotion for me. Yeah, I came up with interpretations of what 'The Graveyard' could have meant, doesn't mean I found it to be art.thethingthatlurks said:
I could randomly smash concrete into bits, and declare it art. I'm sure people could find interpretations as to what enlightened ideas it could contain, of which the stupid masses could not appreciate. Just like others could say it's a hunk of broken concrete! And that does not make one an idiot, just like those who are in the former category, are not elitist jackasses.
games, by definition, are supposed to be fun. so if a game is not fun then it fails as a gameSenseOfTumour said:
As much as I dislike Tale of Tales' games. No. No you couldn't.Azaraxzealot said:
The game would be vastly improved by more brown, some QTEs and a driving section, yes.Azaraxzealot said:
Just an idea here, but if you want to play AAA titles. Why don't you... you know... play AAA titles? AAA titles are made by teams of dozens or often hundreds of people on huge budgets. Indie games are not. Asking for them to do the same things is ridiculous.Azaraxzealot said:
The first part really speaks to a lack of taste on your part. The second... well... again, you're asking for the indie scene to provide a genre that already saturates the market. There are literally hundreds of Sandbox games on the market right now. Why do we need more?Azaraxzealot said:
I think it just goes to show how corrupt award ceremonies are,the game itself sounds remarkably dull and unimaginative so I don't know who out of the average gamers would actually vote for it I think it's the people behind the awards themselves that have put this on a plinth. Also pretty much every game I play theres a chance my character will die, how is this considered innovative or different?
Indie games are ALL ABOUT innovation. Usually in the way it tells a story, since, you know, indie developers don't have any money to do what triple-A studios can. That's what The Graveyard did. It set up an atmosphere and attempted to elicit an emotional response from the player. The Path did a similar thing, as all you can do is walk around in that, too.Azaraxzealot said:
And how is it innovation to make an indie game closer to what you find a hundred times over at your local GameStop? That's not innovation. That's fitting in.
Also known as artistic snobbery.LawlessSquirrel said:
And absolute in indie spirit they are, I once had an interview with the head of their studio and he honestly gave me a very strong impression that he feels his games are ~above~ AAA titles because they're "artistic", evidently the man has never played Okami which perfectly marries both artistic visuals and storytelling with well made AAA gameplay. And seriously, that rubs me the wrong way, he even pretty blatantly said that the only way for games to be recognised as an art form is for the AAA industry to turn over and die. I could have interpreted his words wrong but that is the impression I got from him.
You seem to think indie instantly means it's not accessible towards a large audience, once again, snobbery. Games like Minecraft, Super Meat Boy and World of Goo have proven that you can touch loads and loads of gamers with an indie title, simply through giving solid gameplay, a personal touch, and, in some cases, a good narrative. Now I don't describe to the school of thought that all games should be "fun", or that you can't have a dead serious experience without any violence in games, but this in my opinion isn't the right way to go about it.
And I might agree with that, but the vibe I have personally gotten from the developer really has turned me off from the idea that they are making genuine art rather than wearing a beret, wearing a horizontally striped black & white shirt and declaring "Oh look at us, we are ~so~ fabulously artsy that most of you plebians can't even understand our deep symbolism." And the Graveyard seems to stress that. It's being artsy for the sake of being artsy. True art conveys a message or instils an emotion, and it isn't try to exclude as many people as possible just so the creators or fans of it can then just point fingers at them and deride them for "not getting it".
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/gameAxolotl said:
definitely its supposed to amuse you, see yahtzee's review of Paper Mario for more details.
It is a fairly simple, one note idea that relies entirely on the emotional impact rather than the plot. Like a painting, it focuses on a single moment. The difference is that you can interact with this painting to a limited extent, which encourages you to become better immersed and invested in the character. Thus, if/when she finally dies, it actually feels pretty sad.Azaraxzealot said:
I'm glad that this game exists, and it tries to do something different (hence why it is nominated for "innovation" awards, not "experience" or "gameplay". If you wanted something longer, you could try "The Path" by the same company. That is about Little red Riding Hood. Although if you didn't like this, you might not enjoy The Path either.