Sex in RPG's and why it fails.

[Bobbity]

A kiss in a romance is nice; necessary even. But a sex scene? It's kind of awkward, doesn't really add much, and feels like a bit of a gimmick. If we're going to have sex in games, let it just cut to black, the camera move away, or something of the sort. It just feels a bit like pandering, to me.

 

[lazy_eight]

Idea: Those making the graphics for games could take a lesson from old movies. Classic shots like waves crashing on the beach or a train going into a tunnel were powerful & effective ways of telling the audience what was going on (even before they became clichés). This wouldn't avoid the question of sex, but would allow the player's imagination (which has a higher polygon count than the computer does) to fill in the titillating bits.

 

[NeutralDrow]

Has any American/European company used sex in a game successfully? I wouldn't know, all the games I've played with sex in them were Japanese.

Actually, a lot of dating sims are sorta-RPGs, and I know at least some of them used sex tastefully and naturally. Certainly there's a ton that didn't (and a lot that don't even use sex), but still a few successes.

Also, I keep seeing people talk about polygons and 3D models. With those...pretty sure the game has to be designed around the sex to make those avoid the uncanny valley. Slave's works manage that, after a fashion (though Hard Love Life is kind of odd in other ways, and Tokyo Lover's art style probably isn't for everyone).

 

[T.Kirkness-Little]

Personally, I'd rather they just imply sex. Have the screen fade to black and then a discussion afterward. Or just not have sex in the game. P3 and P4 let you date and fall in love with a character without sex. It always seemed awkward and a little juvenile to have two 3-d models make love.

I totally agree, most of the time sex is just put in games to draw in players and it's kind of offensive to think that developers believe so low of us. It also doesn't help with the general image of gaming.

 

[gintsume]

I think that one question that also needs to be asked is where has sex in games worked?

There aren't many that really spring to mind as the way I see it needs to feel natural. By that I mean something that fits within the story or with the players character, in which case I think its more about who the pursue a relation with rather than how. Lets face it, if you have your character slaughter a small town due to a local looking at you funny, I'm pretty sure the pious healer wont be getting her top off anytime soon (if at all).

I can think of a few examples where it works. Having not played through DA or ME1 or 2 (the latter is a work in progress), games like the previously mentioned Duke Nukem series ties it in well due to the fact that the Duke is a 'mans man' in every way shape and form, so having him enter a strip club and request a lap dance while alien pigs maim and slaughter outside doesn't really feel outside the realm of possibility (to which I hope they do keep this function in DN:F (should it actually come out)).
The same can be said for the Saints Row games and GTA:SA, simply due to the culture that the main character is subjected to and to which the player becomes immersed in.

One game I think has been able to work it in well and not have it detract is Heavy Rain. Yes, I know it can be described as an interactive movie, but that's also what makes it work. When it happened, I'll admit it felt a little like "whoa, where did that come from", but it didn't make me feel uncomfortable the entire time.

 

[Dragonpit]

I'm in full agreement. If there is to be sex in a game, it should be a part of the game, not something that can be pulled out of the coding with the right sequence of choices. Doing such makes it feel cheap, juvenile. There is no sense of intimacy, and we don't feel like it's a 'true' relationship. As far as Bioware's game's go, it DOES seem like Mass Effect 1 came pretty close, but it still didn't feel quite there. I know I didn't really feel quite in the moment when it came up in-game. I think if they want to create a truly immersive experience involving the intimacy, then they should consider doing a little research.

 

[Zeema]

[how i think Game makers think bout sex]

Boobies/Arse=Controversy=Publicly= Me having a wank with $100 bills

What do u think am i on the dot

 

[VondeVon]

For me personally, if sex is in a game then I want it to be explicit. Child-locked, sure. But the whole 'fade to black with sound effects thing' just doesn't do it for me. If you can't see it, it's not sex - it's just the sound of storks delivering the baby.

 

[do_the_manta_ray]

I only really know one game in which sex has worked well, besides the aforementioned Heavy Rain, and that would be Baldur's Gate. Especially in the sequal, sexual relations with the other characters had a large impact on how they treated you afterwards. For example, your beautiful drow companion Viconia is a brutal, pretty apathic, unfeeling thing of a woman, but after learning the fate of her family while visiting the Underdark, she feels exposed, and simply afraid. She stretches out to the main character (if you've carried the relationship up 'til this point which wasn't easy in the first place), and confesses all her fears, and her respect for him. (Which in drow society would be quite the blunder, as females are the dominant sex.)
They end up sleeping together, and the morning after; she's distant, and even colder than usual. But over time, she begins to soften up due to this experience, and she starts to learn that it isn't necessarily a bad thing to rely on someone else.

Now, THAT is good story-telling. The game uses the theme sex maturely to further it's characters and their relationships. This is something that's become harder to find in role-playing games, these days as the aspect of virtual porn sort of ridicules the feelings behind the act in the first case. For instance, I'd say the relationships in Dragon Age and in Mass Effect would have seemed a lot more serious if the sex was just implied, rather than giving us virtual boobies. (Don't get me wrong here, I like boobies a lot, but there's a time and a place.)

One other example for a game that uses sex well is the Persona series, and the upcoming "Catherine" by the same company seems promising, as well.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

For me personally, if sex is in a game then I want it to be explicit. Child-locked, sure. But the whole 'fade to black with sound effects thing' just doesn't do it for me. If you can't see it, it's not sex - it's just the sound of storks delivering the baby.

I don't want juvenile sound effects either. Just cut to black--the end. The majority of gamers rolled their eyes at DA and Fable. We are more mature than the industry gives us credit for.

 

[Jaime_Wolf]

Well I'll be damned. I went into this thread assuming it was going to be another argument that sex has no place in videogames (which is a silly thing to argue about). Instead, a great point and intelligent discussion about it. This is one of the best threads I've seen in a while.

I agree entirely. As you mention, people will naturally complain that there aren't enough options, but any options at all would make for a better RPG (not necessarily speaking for linear RPGs where you play an established character). It's just like black and white morality systems - they may not simulate the full range of moral options, but they can be better than no choice at all.

Funny that it was Dragon Age that brought this up, I'm in the middle of finally playing through it and when I got to that scene, those were my thoughts exactly. It was a fairly jarring disconect from the character I was playing.

 

[Vanalosswen]

I guess I'm one of the few people who actually liked the romance options in DA:O. Maybe because I primarily focused on Alistair (I have a weakness for hot guys with English accents, ok?), and his humor always seemed to make up for the intrinsic weakness of video game sex. Yes, it bothered me a little that they kept their small clothes on (and one day, I will play the computer version with the appropriate mods), but overall, I personally found the sex scenes to be decent.

Then again, I haven't played Mass Effect (yet; still a very new gamer here), so I have no real basis for comparison. But as compared to many novels and movies that are popular these days, the PC/NPC relationships felt decent. Especially since I had to work so bloody hard to find the appropriate gifts for the right people in my first playthrough; that made it feel special when I could give it to them and hear the reaction.

 

[Zannah]

Back in the day, when all we had were italians jumping on turtles, violence was pretty tacked on and not exactly sophisticated (Sam, duke, I'm looking at you two). We as a medium got better from that. We will eventually get better in terms of romance / sex in games too (and bioware is on the right track). I fully agree with the OP, that part of getting better will be having more control over what happens on screen. Eventually, people like bioware will be able to sneak that past the moral morons too.
Half of even one of the more sensible online communities jumping at the topic, and displaying nothing but a dire need of proving how sophisticated they are, by quoting Yahtzee, that's not helping though.

 

[Skoldpadda]

Sex in RPGs fails because you can't choose between being gentle or making her squeel like a pig? As opposed to, it fails because it's stupid?

I hate that silly hamfisted sex crap in RPGs. It's always just there for the sake of it and it looks ridiculous.

This reminds me of a funny story though.
Back on Planetbaldursgate, some years ago, hilarity ensued when a newbie asked why Viconia didn't seem satisfied after the deed.
After all, he'd prepared well.
He had even cast Haste.

 

[ethaninja]

Whenever I see sex in a game I think, "Wow, [game developers], really?" It's really kind of juvenile.

But how is sex juvenile? Sure it's in a game. But do we call paintings with nudity (etc) juvenile?

Anywho

 

[do_the_manta_ray]

I hate to seem like an attention seeker here as I posted a note on this just earlier, but don't slander Bioware and their romantic sub-plots until you play Baldur's Gate II. It's definitely the epitome example of HOW to use sex in a game.
Also, I happened to find the romantic plot for Bastilla in KOTOR very sweet, despite the sex. You really did feel the characters grow closer to each other, and when Bastilla then defeccted to the dark side, you could use your previous relationship to bring her back to see the light again, so to say.

 

[CatmanStu]

I only really know one game in which sex has worked well, besides the aforementioned Heavy Rain, and that would be Baldur's Gate. Especially in the sequal, sexual relations with the other characters had a large impact on how they treated you afterwards. For example, your beautiful drow companion Viconia is a brutal, pretty apathic, unfeeling thing of a woman, but after learning the fate of her family while visiting the Underdark, she feels exposed, and simply afraid. She stretches out to the main character (if you've carried the relationship up 'til this point which wasn't easy in the first place), and confesses all her fears, and her respect for him. (Which in drow society would be quite the blunder, as females are the dominant sex.)
They end up sleeping together, and the morning after; she's distant, and even colder than usual. But over time, she begins to soften up due to this experience, and she starts to learn that it isn't necessarily a bad thing to rely on someone else.

THIS!!!
This is what I am talking about. If you combine this level of storytelling with a workable personality mechanic (foreplay, not fluid exchange) you get sexuality that works as PART OF THE NARRATIVE rather than being some lazy reward for pointless courtship.
I have never played any of the BG games (which is strange as I have played most current generation Bioware titles) but this description has convinced me to give them a try.

To all the people who actually believe that sex is a pointless inclusion in an artistic product (as opposed to the people who just post for the sake of argument or ego) I put this question:
If you believe sex is juvenile and pointless, do you also believe violence is juvenile and pointless?