Sex, Violence, and the Wii
- Thread starter Shamus Young
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I agree with you. Casual gamers don't steal anything from us, it's a separate market... Tere will always be hardcore games, and some simpler one, who appeal to more people!oppp7 said:
And I think wii have a few good hardcore ones, No More Heroes, Punch out come to mind now (and certainly there are many more, but I don't own the console so I didn't get the chance to play much), and many "casual" games who ARE FUN. Actually, I think that's what our hobby is about, having fun with eletronic media, and that doesn't mean we always have to end up in huge realistic fantasy-like dungeons with advanced mechanics. Sometimes you can have fun just by pressing x not to die, that's not forbidden...
'...but it's still possible to walk into a Walmart today and buy movies like Eyes Wide Shut that will show you something a lot more scandalous than that.'
I'll say. Eyes Wide Shut is possibly the saddest punctuation stop to a film making career ever. It's difficult to believe that the same person who brought us Dr Stangelove, 2001, A Clockwork Orange and many other superb films, could produce (and write) a film so bad that I got so bored that even a near naked Nicole Kidman couldn't persuade me to watch it all the way through. It's scandalously bad.
CJ
I'll say. Eyes Wide Shut is possibly the saddest punctuation stop to a film making career ever. It's difficult to believe that the same person who brought us Dr Stangelove, 2001, A Clockwork Orange and many other superb films, could produce (and write) a film so bad that I got so bored that even a near naked Nicole Kidman couldn't persuade me to watch it all the way through. It's scandalously bad.
CJ
I'm not sure the issue is that- I think the kind of games that have made Wii as big as it is are things like Wii Sports, and as a result, we might be worse off, giving people just enough information to form the wrong opinion- it was probably a lot easier beforehand to go "games are/can be a bit like films" and have it understood, if they didn't accept it.Pjmcnally said:
Now, I think that the majority of new casual ga-- sorry, "people who are no longer going to blame and ban videogames", those that haven't really moved past Wii Sports, are going to hear about a game with violence in it and think it's Wii Sports, but with killing.
I could be wrong- I hope I am- but I don't think we should be flying the flag of victory just yet.
Well that article hit the nail squarely on the head. Most of the problems with society and videogames come from a long time fact that gamers are an exclusive group(in fact they throw up arbitrary barriers to protect that fact and are extremely hostile to new-comers). People don't understand due to inadequact exposer to videogames. The wii is doing something that lots of gamers hate: making new gamers out of non-gamers. That ruins the exclusive club part of the equation but helps people to see games aren't so bad(not to mention pumping new blood into a group that will inevitable stagnate without it). I hope the Wii actually does it's goal of making gamers out of a much larger percent of the population. Maybe then gaming can seen as being just as common a pasttime as going to movies, or seeing bnaseball games.
I'm sure, Shamus, you remember those days in the mid-80's when we were simultaneously uber-nerds and Satan worshipers because we were playing Dungeons and Dragons with our friends on weekends.
Or that time when they made a TV movie staring Tom Hanks where a kids life was ruined from D&D, since he played so much he couldn't tell fantasy from reality.
Soccer moms have to get their jollies somehow.
Or that time when they made a TV movie staring Tom Hanks where a kids life was ruined from D&D, since he played so much he couldn't tell fantasy from reality.
Soccer moms have to get their jollies somehow.
I'm afraid all your examples were a world away in difference, in that killing the innocents was a personal choice as opposed to a narrative necessary scene, even though MW2 was skippable. The only way to kill lots of innocents in Deus Ex for instace, is to make the conscious decision to decide to, which instantly makes it a game. Saying that, there's been very little scandal in MW2. Certainly not in Britain, and even Russia was just fed up as been portrayed as the ultimate evil.
Sadly the Wii won't do that because it makes "different" games. Casual gamers don't play violent games on the Wii so it doesn't switch them over to our side in any real way. In fact it's just "why are you killing people whilst you can have so much fun playing glorified peggle and associated mini-games on the wii?"
Sadly the Wii won't do that because it makes "different" games. Casual gamers don't play violent games on the Wii so it doesn't switch them over to our side in any real way. In fact it's just "why are you killing people whilst you can have so much fun playing glorified peggle and associated mini-games on the wii?"
No offense, but I am still bitter that "Video Game Players" have stolen the term "Gamer" from us true Gamers, the pen and paper RPG players. It was like when your Grandfather realized all of the hipsters were drinking Pabst Blue Ribbon.
Want to talk about the media portraying your hobby as EVIL and the general public having no clue what your hobby really is. The oppressed video game players have nothing on my tribe of oppressed brethren.
Want to talk about the media portraying your hobby as EVIL and the general public having no clue what your hobby really is. The oppressed video game players have nothing on my tribe of oppressed brethren.
Its an easy hit as well one must remember, newspapers print anti-game stories because "we" don't read newspapers, so it doesn't affect their circulation. Politicians shoot to the heavens, because, guess what, gamers don't vote so much (personally I do, but most gamers I know don't). And FOX rags on games, well, because they live and die on right wing sensationalist bull-s**t.
But even if we all go out and convert ten baby-boomers to being "casual gamers" we still have the problem that people who play th Wii don't see themselves as gamers, my mam plays Wii and DS, yet she still thinks MW:COD2 crossed the line, she asked me to turn off Prototype more than once. And I mean I'm 25...
The simple fact is that most non-gamers see a distinct line between playing a sports game and playing GTA or MW2 or Prototype. They think you play a sports game because you like sports, and want to "feel" like a sports star, this is something the Wii promotes is it not? The whole motion control crap. So by this logic, if you want to play violent games, you want to be violent. Also the fact that most games casual gamers play are without a proper storyline makes the gulf hard to cross as well, sure you can say that people who watch Comedies or Rom-Com aren't against violent films, but they see films as story telling. Most casual gamers don't see games that way they see it as a brain training exercise, a way to get fit (or pretend to) or in the case of FB games a way to just get to the next stage. The simple fact is that without the context of a story we can't compare the way someone who won't watch violent understands them to the way the a person who won't play violent games sees them.
Perhaps I'm wrong...but can anyone name a real "casual" game with a plot? I can't.
But even if we all go out and convert ten baby-boomers to being "casual gamers" we still have the problem that people who play th Wii don't see themselves as gamers, my mam plays Wii and DS, yet she still thinks MW:COD2 crossed the line, she asked me to turn off Prototype more than once. And I mean I'm 25...
The simple fact is that most non-gamers see a distinct line between playing a sports game and playing GTA or MW2 or Prototype. They think you play a sports game because you like sports, and want to "feel" like a sports star, this is something the Wii promotes is it not? The whole motion control crap. So by this logic, if you want to play violent games, you want to be violent. Also the fact that most games casual gamers play are without a proper storyline makes the gulf hard to cross as well, sure you can say that people who watch Comedies or Rom-Com aren't against violent films, but they see films as story telling. Most casual gamers don't see games that way they see it as a brain training exercise, a way to get fit (or pretend to) or in the case of FB games a way to just get to the next stage. The simple fact is that without the context of a story we can't compare the way someone who won't watch violent understands them to the way the a person who won't play violent games sees them.
Perhaps I'm wrong...but can anyone name a real "casual" game with a plot? I can't.
Well, I for one, blame the Wii of all this. Well, not the Wii to be precise but what it represents.
Gaming is still regarded (against our better judgement) as something for children, along with reading comics or watching cartoons (all of which I do, despite being in my mid twenties), and the Wii's reputation as both this generations king and a "kiddie and/or casual" console doesn't help matters.
Gaming is not as respected an entertainment as movies because it's still relatively young, and we're still reeling from the mostly simplistic stories and cute main characters from the 8-bit era.
Still, it's just like Shamus said. People who condemn video games are a dying breed. Too bad it's our generation that has to put up with them.
Gaming is still regarded (against our better judgement) as something for children, along with reading comics or watching cartoons (all of which I do, despite being in my mid twenties), and the Wii's reputation as both this generations king and a "kiddie and/or casual" console doesn't help matters.
Gaming is not as respected an entertainment as movies because it's still relatively young, and we're still reeling from the mostly simplistic stories and cute main characters from the 8-bit era.
Still, it's just like Shamus said. People who condemn video games are a dying breed. Too bad it's our generation that has to put up with them.
"Sex, Violence, and the Wii: Preferably two out of three."
Joke aside, I'm not real sympathetic over casual gamers. The drivel made to cater to easy needs has badly buried the games I'd be interested in.
Joke aside, I'm not real sympathetic over casual gamers. The drivel made to cater to easy needs has badly buried the games I'd be interested in.
Did you actually read the article or see the title and assume what it was about? Because no way in your post does it seem to hint that you read the article. It seems to say, "I saw the title of your article and I was so offended by how you said the Wii was going to save us hardcore gamers." Publishers can hardly be saviors if they are bogged down with controversy.axia777 said:
What Shamus is saying is that if we introduce the Wii to the baby boomer generation, they'll slowly realize that, "Hey! Maybe gaming ISN'T the fault of all this and that and etc!" because they'll "get" gaming in a sense - that games don't really make people go out and do this stuff.
Props to Shamus on this one. Very good article.
I think that what the Wii is doing in a small way is showing the world just how weak and perhaps even hypocritical blaming games for the ills of the world actually is. When we see what something really is, it alters our view of it. When gaming is seen as just entertainment, extreme criticism of games will go down to a level similar to films because convincing the ignorant man is easier than convincing the knowing man. Likewise, it is easier to defend the knowing man than it is to defend the ignorant man. It is easier to defend something that is hard to criticise. It is why films are not criticised as games are; because there are very many who would stand up for the film industry, many who see the film industry as just entertainment. Now, how many are willing to defend games? That number is slowly increasing, and with that the number of people willing to criticise games as a certain lawyer did is slowly decreasing. The more people realise that gaming, like films, are just entertainment, the less gaming industries of all types will be criticised. We play games to escape reality, to unwind, to relax. This is what the Wii is, at least in my view, is trying to do. Because if fantasy were reality, we?d really be flaming the flamers, now wouldn?t we?
I'm sorry...what? Maybe my definition of "casual" is different that yours, but WTF? Casual? Really? And a Final Fantasy game? You know people in their 40's / 50's who could pick up and play these games when they came out? Sorry, I'm not gonna be too argumentative but I just don't see it.Strangeite said: