Sexism against men

[chadachada123]

Right, so when an article comes up about a woman who was raped, I suppose I'll just post that picture. What? I'm a horrible person for saying that? Deal with it.

Firstly, men are not raped in nearly the same numbers as women. Secondly, that was totally fucking capricious and wildly extreme. I was merely saying that sexism against men really is practically a non-issue and that you and many others like you are making way too big of a deal out of something that occurs far more infrequently when compared to the figures of discrimination of literally every other minority there is. What the hell did any of that have to do with rape?

Well, think about it this way: Legally, Western countries aren't sexist or racist anymore. Any country with a Western-style constitution, and the UK which kinda doesn't but still has an equivalent, has laws against discrimination. That means, on paper, feminist and racial interest groups should no longer be actively pursuing an agenda, but instead focusing on making sure anti-bigotry laws are upheld. Watchdogs, that is.

And nowadays, the level of tolerance and equality in society is unprecedented. Does that mean there is not bigotry? Of course not. Even the most progressive of countries still has some kinks to work out, and the fact that equality movements aren't even a century old means that society hasn't fully adapted yet. But, overall, the level of equality is unprecedented in contemporary history, which is where conflicts in perception come in.

Now that the notion of equality has been planted in the general psyche, those who were viewed as the oppressors, "White" Males, are not actively resisting the notion's growth; we simply want to ensure that what started out as movements in the right direction don't start infringing on us. We are fortunate in that we have the social standing and population that groups in the past simply did not, and it is not wrong for us to demand that equality stays as its name implies.

And while you're legally correct, there is not as much practical discrimination against "White" Men as there is towards non-"White" Men, there has been an increase of cultural degradation, and, in many cases, cultural contempt, directed towards "White" Males, which leads to stereotypes such as "Men are all horny and therefore it's not really rape", which is far more pervasive in art today than any female stereotype.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrvDhSB7GHk&feature=related

I'll fully admit that The Amazing Atheist is the reason why I'm aware of this video, but it perfectly illustrates what I'm talking about. The conduct of every woman in that video, even the one who meekly and half-hearted points out the blatant sexism, is totally unacceptable. And this is on a major American television station with millions of viewers.

You ever try and balance a pencil on your finger?

Go get a pencil, but put it on your finger really lopsided (but don't let it fall).

Then try to adjust it to balance it out.

What happens? The pencil ends up leaning the other way, doesn't it? It's now unbalanced, but in the opposite direction.

And when you try and put it back, the same will happen.

After some deliberation, you'll finally have it balanced on your finger... but it'll always wobble to and fro.

Think of sexism like that. Women started on the harsh end of things. Right now, though we don't have it nearly as bad as they did, men have it kinda bad. Some people might call it "reverse sexism" even though that makes no fucking sense and they should be slapped. Soon enough, though, it'll balance out, but that inequality will always be there, even if it isn't obvious or huge. The scales will always wobble. We just need to learn to deal with it when it comes.

Borrowing that analogy, "White" Males have the incredible fortune of being able to ensure that the pencil doesn't lean towards the other side, and it is perfectly reasonable to want to prevent bigotry before it becomes pervasive.

Being male immediately harms social standing, regardless of intent, when children are involved. Adults males are far, far less trusted with children.

Example: A 25-30 year old is walking in the mall, and stumbles upon a lost child. The 25-30 year old goes to take the child to the security desk, etc, when the mom spots her lost child with this grown adult. Picture the response by the mother when she says her child walking with a 25 or 30 year old man, and the response for a 25 or 30 year old woman.

Women have it worse in some situations, like the job market, absolutely (and those need to be addressed/fixed) but men have it REALLY bad in social situations involving unrelated children.

(Don't try and say that men are statistically more likely to harm children, or else you are, by proxy, justifying huge racism against "blacks" because of how crime statistics stack by race)

 

[Wharrgarble]

Since this had sort of become a thread about sexism and stereotyping in general, let me tall you what just happened.

So a couple of people are visiting my family, and they wanted me to set up the wii, because they "didn't want to mess anything up." (These people are female. Just wanted to clarify.) They don't know that I have any experience with this sort of thing, but they assume that I do because I'm a boy. Also, its kind of sad that they didn't think they could figure it out. Maybe I'm reading into this too much, but I feel like things like this pop up a lot more than we realize.

Guess what? Just last week my boyfriend and I had some of his friends over for a movie/gaming night. They're generally nice guys, but as I reached to the back of the TV to switch over the HDMI cable, one of the guys came over and said "Do you even know what you're doing?" After telling him that yes, yes I did, as it was my console and TV that I had done this to thousands of times before, he simply shrugged before saying "Sorry, reaction. I don't usually trust girls around electronics."

Ladies and gentlemen, sexism goes both ways. While they figured you'd be competent, he thought I'd be completely inept. Society sucks.

Also, can we please stop this BS argument about "WHO HAS IT WORST!?" That's not what this should even be about. Look, unless you end up on the other side of the fence no one will truly ever understand what the other is going through. I had no idea racism was so rampant until I dated a boy from the Bahamas and saw how terribly blacks can be treated in society.

The idea that men have moved to the other side of the spectrum is ludicrous. Is there sexism against them? Of course there is! I speak out loudly against sexism against women, but that didn't turn me into a man hater.

For every person on here saying "well women have it easier in divorce settlements, and that's unfair!" you're absolutely right, and that is entirely unfair. However, I expect you to also stand up and say "women are only being paid 77 cents per the dollar that a man makes, and that's unfair!"

Why? Because that's equalism. If you want it to happen, start supporting both sides. Not just your own.


(Retyopy - this wasn't all aimed at you. I promise.)

 

[Slayer_2]

Sexism exists for BOTH sexes, don't let femi-nazis make you think otherwise. Sexism is just a fact of life, there is tons of examples for sexism towards males or females in our society.

 

[KAPTAINmORGANnWo4life]

Crap. Double post. Sorry.

 

[Xanadu84]

Long story short, and overly simplified to a ridiculous extent, Women get less pay, fewer job options, get treated like sex objects, can't abandon their child before birth, get the toughest jobs parenting, are raped a billion times more often then men, get taken less seriously then men in a lot of fields regardless of ability, are less physically strong and more likely to be overpowered, get treated like outright dirt from the truly sexist, have a history centuries long of being second class citizens AND get to be the good guy when they don't really deserve it in a commercial. That last bit is for balance. It's far from perfect, but in the grand scheme of things, there's really no harm done.

 

[KAPTAINmORGANnWo4life]

Being male immediately harms social standing, regardless of intent, when children are involved. Adults males are far, far less trusted with children.

Example: A 25-30 year old is walking in the mall, and stumbles upon a lost child. The 25-30 year old goes to take the child to the security desk, etc, when the mom spots her lost child with this grown adult. Picture the response by the mother when she says her child walking with a 25 or 30 year old man, and the response for a 25 or 30 year old woman.

Women have it worse in some situations, like the job market, absolutely (and those need to be addressed/fixed) but men have it REALLY bad in social situations involving unrelated children.

(Don't try and say that men are statistically more likely to harm children, or else you are, by proxy, justifying huge racism against "blacks" because of how crime statistics stack by race)

Which is why I qualified my statement by saying that "White" Males aren't practically discriminated against, as in denied service or employment, as others, but are routinely maltreated by culture, which is why it is not only valid, but important that "White" Males don't accept stereotyping or degrading perceptions.

 

[Ironsouled]

I think the male equivalent of feminism is masculism? Take a look at any wesbite dedicated to masculism, or even wiki the term, I'm sure you'll find many more examples of sexism against men.

Misogyny, my good man, misogyny.

Beyond that... Both avenues of sexism are fairly well traveled, so ignore, keep walking, and occasionally laugh at the extremists in either direction.

 

[Aurora Firestorm]

I'm fairly certain I can sum up quite a few arguments here as follows. 1: "Biology says men are supposed to be more privileged, boo." 2: "Men aren't discriminated against, and if it does, it doesn't matter." 3: "Yeah, men are victims of sexism, it sucks, let's fix it." 4: "Eh, I don't care."

But more to the point, anti-male sentiment, when it happens, may not (only?) be due to a sort of overcompensation by feminism. In America, when people select for the gender of their babies in IVF, most of them choose girls. Some frequent sentiments from those people were that men were just going to go get someone pregnant and goof off, while women were going to work hard and strive for success. (I am not pretending any of this makes sense.) One theory I've heard is that women tend to do the communication and socialization thing better than men, on average, and as such they're more suited for lots of societal positions these days, and jobs. Not gonna lie -- back in the day, men's physical prowess and ability to protect was a real big important thing. There's a reason men were on top, societally. Nowadays, it may be that women have a perceived boost in certain areas. They're also getting huge amounts of societal support right now.

It's leaning dangerously close to saying that "men are better at math than women" a la the Harvard president, but that's not what I'm saying. It's that women have spent all of history training to be social warriors, while men have trained to be physical warriors. Both can learn the other's trade, but for the meantime, it may be that men are being looked down on for societal reasons in a similar way as women were not so long ago Some societies may very well be biasing against men now...which means we may or may not end up with a less intense version of the old problem that women had a long time ago.

Here's hoping it doesn't happen, of course. Guys and girls should be on an even field. And, to reflect what others in the thread have said, let's stop the pissing contests about who has had it worse over time. It doesn't help anyone.

 

[xXAsherahXx]

I think the reason that rape towards boys is undermined is because most boys are sex machines and think about it all the time. It's not hard to think that among guys, another guy being raped isn't considered a tragedy.

 

[KAPTAINmORGANnWo4life]

I think the male equivalent of feminism is masculism? Take a look at any wesbite dedicated to masculism, or even wiki the term, I'm sure you'll find many more examples of sexism against men.

Misogyny, my good man, misogyny.

Beyond that... Both avenues of sexism are fairly well traveled, so ignore, keep walking, and occasionally laugh at the extremists in either direction.

There's a big difference between being pro-something and being anti-something else. Misogyny is an anti-female stance.

 

[inquisiti0n]

For every person on here saying "well women have it easier in divorce settlements, and that's unfair!" you're absolutely right, and that is entirely unfair. However, I expect you to also stand up and say "women are only being paid 77 cents per the dollar that a man makes, and that's unfair!"

The fact that seemingly intelligent and educated people still believe that nonsense makes me rage.

First, consider all the housewives that pull that average down. Even in studies where they exclude the unemployed, they don't consider the pay discrepancies between professions.

Anyone who has ever been to college knows that degrees like computer science, IT, physics, mathematics, all types of engineering, and hard sciences in general (though to a lesser extant than the previous ones) are dominated by men. Hell, dominating isn't even the right word since that implies they're somehow trying to keep woman out, but ask any male engineering student whether or not he would like more females in his classes.

Anyways, the point is that men are more likely to pursue these fields of study, and these fields of study just so happen to pay more than the ones females usually choose to major in. So if you were to compare the average woman and the average man, of course the man would make more, though there are additional factors as to why.

The pay discrepancy between a man and a woman working the same job in North America & Western Europe is no more than a single digit percentage, and that discrepancy has nothing to do with sexism. There are studies that show that women are less likely to ask for pay raises. This was attributed to females being more risk-averse by nature. Men were found to be more risk-seeking and this resulted in a pay difference. Secondly, studies clearly show that men work more hours on average, particularly when it came to overtime hours. The reasons for this are that women are more physically exhausted in comparison, and might need more time to recuperate on the weekends and such. Another reason would be that females are more family-oriented (by nature) and thus have less time for things like overtime work.


Google "wage gap myth" or something to learn more. So no, wage gap is not a valid counter to what men face in divorce court/family court.
If anything, I could argue how companies being forced to implement gender quotas (designed to favour women) end up hiring less than qualified women in cases where they simply can't find a qualified female to fit the position, but I don't wanna turn this into a "who has it worse" type of discussion, which I agree is meaningless and unproductive.

And anyone who thinks I'm BSing, please don't try to refute me with personal anecdotes like "i kno some risk seeking female daredevil/stuntwomen with a degree in computer engineering that works more hours than anyone ive met."



Basically, alot of people are conditioned to believe that any "inadequacy" women exhibit is somehow the direct cause of institutionalized sexism, which is a very irresponsible assumption to say the least. It's even considered "sexist" and "misogynistic" to criticize the blatant mistakes in the data collection/interpretation methods of many women's groups (stats relating to everything from pay discrepancy to rape, sexual assault, domestic violence, etc.), which doesn't do much to dissuade the stereotype that women need to be coddled...

 

[psychodynamica]

Post is irrelevant, no such thing as women. tis all liberal communist propaganda.

I keed. In all seriousness sexism is the most depressing issue i have had the delight of arguing about. MANLY men piss me off because being mediocre, self-centered and shallow whilst always following some guide to being a man i can't find, seems like a waste of life. I see women treated terribly and badly abused, but. This is gonna earn some hate but it needs to be said. domestic abuse although the abuser is the 'Bad Guy' just remember that we all know the kind of woman that chooses that, for whatever "reason" (not that reason has much to do with it).

now the whole 'Reverse sexism' (seriously how many mistakes can you make with two words) thing I find hard to swallow, yes people are shitty no matter what little difference you think matters, and you can be just as full of bile and poison as a man if you're a woman. but i just don't understand. it's the same with racism, it feels to (i am a middleclass white male so maybe i haven't earned an opinion) me like a massive non-issue. people are people, people are assholes, surround yourself with those who aren't entirely intolerable and you might find a few you actually like. it matters not what tiny insignificant difference you think they have. like, at all. having differing genitals just makes you a slightly unnerving but also incredibly interesting, it's NOT sexist to believe that or to think that way, it's human.

Also just as a little note Feminism is a terrible movement and although has some good things to say, if you are willing to say you are a feminist and actually understand what that means. enjoy your misery and don't come crying when you realise it was {almost} all bullshit.

 

[Ironsouled]

Snip.

Misogyny, my good man, misogyny.

Beyond that... Both avenues of sexism are fairly well traveled, so ignore, keep walking, and occasionally laugh at the extremists in either direction.

There's a big difference between being pro-something and being anti-something else. Misogyny is an anti-female stance.

I do not wish to close the avenue of discussion by shouting 'Semantics!' and leaving, but I'm not sure I see your differenciation. If one is Pro-Life, then one is by necessity Anti-choice.

 

[Aprilgold]

How can a women rape a man, they wouldn't be har, and if they were it wouldn't be rape.

Drugs, viagra, a woman could use a device to penetrate a man, or the guy is tied down and doesn't want it but his body reacts anyway(I don't know about you but I can't always control that). There was that story of the guy who tried to rob a store and the woman tied him up and raped him for 3 days.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2013870/Robber-broke-hair-salon-beaten-black-belt-owner-kept-sex-slave-days--fed-Viagra.html

I just want to say that there would be riots if the positions were reversed.

And THERE ladies and gentlemen is our society being stupid, since women are sterotyped by companies and the goverment at times as fragile angels, while guys are depicted as assholes and dicks, nerds or dweebs.
It gets me more or less pissed when people say women are more FRAGILE or DELICATE then men. Women can shoot me in the face as easily as I could shoot them, or I could hug as good as any women. Do you get my point? Basically, its just women are depicted as angels, and guys as dicks, instead of being case-by-case basis, to where people are judged by WHO THEY ARE and not by their gender.

 

[chadachada123]

Snip.

Misogyny, my good man, misogyny.

Beyond that... Both avenues of sexism are fairly well traveled, so ignore, keep walking, and occasionally laugh at the extremists in either direction.

There's a big difference between being pro-something and being anti-something else. Misogyny is an anti-female stance.

I do not wish to close the avenue of discussion by shouting 'Semantics!' and leaving, but I'm not sure I see your differenciation. If one is Pro-Life, then one is by necessity Anti-choice.

Not necessarily, because common usage amongst my friends and family members is that pro-life and pro-choice are not mutually exclusive. My dad is pro-life in that he thinks abortions are morally wrong, and wishes to preserve life. He is also pro-choice, in that he favors women having control over their own bodies.

It is absolutely semantics, but we shouldn't combine only-slightly-related terms ("life" and "choice," in this case) and use them interchangeably in such a fashion.

 

[Ironsouled]

Snip.

Snip.

There's a big difference between being pro-something and being anti-something else. Misogyny is an anti-female stance.

I do not wish to close the avenue of discussion by shouting 'Semantics!' and leaving, but I'm not sure I see your differenciation. If one is Pro-Life, then one is by necessity Anti-choice.

Not necessarily, because common usage amongst my friends and family members is that pro-life and pro-choice are not mutually exclusive. My dad is pro-life in that he thinks abortions are morally wrong, and wishes to preserve life. He is also pro-choice, in that he favors women having control over their own bodies.

It is absolutely semantics, but we shouldn't combine only-slightly-related terms ("life" and "choice," in this case) and use them interchangeably in such a fashion.

You cannot preserve life without taking that control from the woman; so I would call your father reluctantly pro-choice (My own opinion here, feel free to disagree).

Perhaps what I should have said is 'you cannot put one man on a pedestal without, by necessity, leaving his rival on the floor.'

I'll admit I should have initially used better imagery than abortion, which is a bit of a hot-button topic without the benefit of sexism added to the mix.

 

[chadachada123]

Snip.

Snip.

There's a big difference between being pro-something and being anti-something else. Misogyny is an anti-female stance.

I do not wish to close the avenue of discussion by shouting 'Semantics!' and leaving, but I'm not sure I see your differenciation. If one is Pro-Life, then one is by necessity Anti-choice.

Not necessarily, because common usage amongst my friends and family members is that pro-life and pro-choice are not mutually exclusive. My dad is pro-life in that he thinks abortions are morally wrong, and wishes to preserve life. He is also pro-choice, in that he favors women having control over their own bodies.

It is absolutely semantics, but we shouldn't combine only-slightly-related terms ("life" and "choice," in this case) and use them interchangeably in such a fashion.

You cannot preserve life without taking that control from the woman; so I would call your father reluctantly pro-choice (My own opinion here, feel free to disagree).

Perhaps what I should have said is 'you cannot put one man on a pedestal without, by necessity, leaving his rival on the floor.'

I'll admit I should have initially used better imagery than abortion, which is a bit of a hot-button topic without the benefit of sexism added to the mix.

Perhaps I should have been more clear, myself. "Reluctantly pro-choice" and "Pro-life AND pro-choice" are synonymous in common usage amongst my family and friends. I can understand how other circles would percieve the terms as being different. An easy way to put it perhaps would have been "Legally pro-choice, morally pro-life."

I understand your general point and agree, and perhaps I was too quick to jump on the abortion-terminology-clarification boat, heh.

 

[orangeban]

This is interesting because, unlike what many people seem to assume, sexism against men and sexism against women is not mutually exclusive. Feminism seeks equality for women, and part of that is getting equality for men (sadly, in mainstream feminism it equality for men isn't such a big deal as it should be). Same goes with masculism (male feminism!), only the other way round.

In fact, sexism against both genders goes hand in hand. Women get portrayed as delicate flowers, and in conjunction, men become hulking emotionless brutes.