Sexism against men

[Ironsouled]

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Not necessarily, because common usage amongst my friends and family members is that pro-life and pro-choice are not mutually exclusive. My dad is pro-life in that he thinks abortions are morally wrong, and wishes to preserve life. He is also pro-choice, in that he favors women having control over their own bodies.

It is absolutely semantics, but we shouldn't combine only-slightly-related terms ("life" and "choice," in this case) and use them interchangeably in such a fashion.

You cannot preserve life without taking that control from the woman; so I would call your father reluctantly pro-choice (My own opinion here, feel free to disagree).

Perhaps what I should have said is 'you cannot put one man on a pedestal without, by necessity, leaving his rival on the floor.'

I'll admit I should have initially used better imagery than abortion, which is a bit of a hot-button topic without the benefit of sexism added to the mix.

Perhaps I should have been more clear, myself. "Reluctantly pro-choice" and "Pro-life AND pro-choice" are synonymous in common usage amongst my family and friends. I can understand how other circles would percieve the terms as being different. An easy way to put it perhaps would have been "Legally pro-choice, morally pro-life."

I understand your general point and agree, and perhaps I was too quick to jump on the abortion-terminology-clarification boat, heh.

Never a problem, although I myself have never heard that cncurrence of terms before.

A non-sequitur, I'm aware, but, hey look! differences in opinion solved without trolling! I have (a milligram or two) more faith in humanity!

 

[Conner42]

Women fought for equality for 50+ years. And yet a women still gets priority over a child in a devorce. Domestic abuse by women on men is nowhere near as publicised as domestic abuse of women by men. Also, as you say, when was the last time a newspaper published a story of a woman raping a man? Never.

I'm not saying men are a repressed minority or any of that nonsense, but..... yeah, the equality thing may have gone a little far in one direction instead of stopping where it should of.

Disclaimer: Yes, of course, without stats, I can't back any of that up. I'm not being sexist or anything, I'm just writing the truth of my opinion. But the very fact I feel I should put a disclaimer on this post speaks volumes really.

Here are some stats for you!

http://www.physorg.com/news72113800.html

http://psp.sagepub.com/content/20/1/34.abstract

To be honest, I got both of these links from Cracked. It doesn't just talk about aggressiveness. If you're interested.....

http://www.cracked.com/article_18760_6-things-everyone-knows-about-women-that-arent-true.html

I guess on topic with my opinion, yea, I do think that "equal rights" kind of lean towards women a little. I remember a topic not to long ago about how these 3 middle schoolers who were female attacked an elementary school boy, stripped him of his clothes, got it all on camera, and posted it on youtube. All of the charges were dropped though, the parent of the boy decided on that. The thing is that I noticed people kept on saying that if the gender roles were reversed, the outcome would have been completely different. Had it been boys assaulting a girl, they probably would've gotten severely punished for it.

You know, now that I think about it, wouldn't it be weird if women do take over and it was the men fighting for "equal rights". I don't know why I'm thinking of this, and it probably won't happen, but it's just something weird I just thought of.

 

[Wintermoot]

allot of woman think they are more equal to men simply deal with it.

 

[Kagim]

This went on longer then i wanted it to and ended up covering this whole mess. So i am going to spoiler these up into segments.

Also, I am going to warn you now. If i think you have taken something out of context or twisted my words, i am not going to bother replying to you. It's not worth my time to do what is essentially repeating myself because instead of reading everything i said and taking it as a whole you have chosen to take a sentence or two and try and paint me as something else.

If you don't think you can read everything i said i implore you just to ignore my whole post and move on. This post is six pages long, with no spaces and size ten print. It. Is. Long.

If your willing to read the whole thing. I implore you to stay and listen. Otherwise, i ask you just pretend you never saw this post. It won't be worth either of our time.

This spoiler is the first part of my rant. Mostly about relationships with few tangents, mainly dealing with relationships, public view, and rape.

Spoiler

Males just get abused differently. Take a relationship. When spouse abuse occurs against a male it is generally in the form of emotional abuse. Which is a serious issue. However how the fuck do you track that? My wife picks on me sometimes but not in a thousand years would i call it abuse anymore then she would call a help line because i tickled her ribs or gave her a noggy.

Is there a double standard agaisnt men? Yeah we do get the short end of the stick.

For example Imagine a guy calling a woman a filthy slut for any reason, then the women slapping his dirty mouth. Well good for her, woman stood up for herself.

Now imagine if the women did the talking and the man did the slapping. Honestly do you think people would be cheering the man for standing up for himself? No. The guy is an aggressive bundle of Misogyny. Only hitting her to try and establish the control his throbbing penis needs to maintain his ego.

Nothing changed but the genders, but the male is persecuted harder.

Same with generally sexist statements. If a woman in public is complaining about men being filthy whorish pigs you might, at worst, get rolls of the eye.

Men announce that women are filthy whorish sluts, and your looked at with scowls, glares, and probably a harsh word or two, if not a full blown rage out.

Hell, take date rape. Guy gets drunk, women exploits that, its the guys fault for getting so drunk that irresponsible loser.

Switch the genders, the guy is a perverted sickening freak who took advantage of a drunken woman.

To be perfectly clear, i am not downplaying date rape. I just find it pretty fucked up that if a man is taken advantage of while in an drunken state its HIS fault for getting drunken, yet if a woman voluntarily gets drunk then it's the mans fault... Even if both victims willfully got drunk and both aggressors knowingly took advantage of it.

Legally it's distinct, but how many judges will take a frat boy seriously pleading a date rape case? Hell, how many frat boys would be able to? Would you if you saw it in the paper? Your first response would be "lying asshole"

In the movie 40 days and 40 nights the climatic scene is where the main character's ex-girlfriend breaks into his house rapes him right before lent ends and he fails his goal of no sex. What happens? His girlfriend walks in, gets angry and leaves. He has to apologize for it. Read that again.

In the movie forty days and forty nights. A man is raped, and he has to apologize to the woman for being raped

Does he press charges? is she even mentioned again? Imagine a movie where a guy walks in on his girlfriend clearly being raped and ends with her grovelling at his feet for forgiveness.
Yeah.. kinda like that...

Am I saying that sexism agaisnt males is worse, or even equal to agaisnt woman? Naw. Am i saying it exists? Yes. Is it more common then you think? Yup.

Saying that abuse agaisnt males is such a small insignificant thing that is pretty offensive though, because to me, a person being raped is a tragedy. I really don't fucking care if it was a male raping a woman, a woman raping a woman, a male raping a male or a woman raping a man.

It shouldn't. Have god damned. Happened.

It's the problem i have with these discussion, because it always ends up a numbers games.

"Well, men get raped and abused far less often then woman, so it's not important."

I want you to go and look a twelve year old boy who has been trafficked through child prostitution for half his life in the eyes and say "You don't matter because there three girls for every one of you".

Am i being harsh? Yes. Because EVERY RAPE IS A FUCKING TRAGEDY (Have i got that through? Okay good)

When you say anything along the lines of "Well it doesn't happen as often to men so it's less important" you reducing a living being to a fucking statistic. That is what makes me sick about these fucking threads.

At this point i had to take a break and go for a walk... I was pretty pissed off... moving on...

This is me tackling the issue of "men have an easier time growing up".

Alot of it has to do with my own experience growing up. To sum it up, the general idea isn't that either sex has it harder. More so that neither sex can ever truly understand what the other has to go through.

Spoiler

Ultimately, it's impossible for one gender to make any statement on the others life. They say it is easier to grow up a male. I would like to call bullshit personally. Men are under a fair bit of social pressure that woman can't understand anymore then a man can understand the piles of bullshit they go through. Mostly because of the whole "Only being one gender" thing.

Lets make a few quick examples. Images as appearing on TV. They say men have it easier then woman, and i will concede to an extent, that is true. However while lifting three hundred pounds is hard one hundred and fifty is still a fucking challenge.

Take for instance the image of the geek.

Remeber the OC. Remember the son who was apparently a nerd and an outcast. Seth, he looks like this

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0111013/

THAT is a geek? A loser who no one likes. With his pouty lips and chiseled abs. Go to Hell Tv. Go to hell and die.

Then there is the other extreme. Go type 'revenge of the nerds' into google. I'll wait.

Real accurate eh?

Take a look at any male in TV who isn't in perfect shape. Being overweight in movies and TV is almost always connected with schemy and vile. If someone is a rapist it is never Adrian Brody(unless its a SHOCKING twist! Who would expect the cute guy!) No, if there is a rapist he is a)Fat, b)unshaven, and c)sweating constantly.

Serial killers are always big, fat gruff guys. If they are skinny or handsome then they are super intelligent or cunning or have some kind of disorder.

But fat people with beards... Well.. all that hate and rape comes from eating to many cheeseburgers according to tv.

While i can't link it, being a text book and all, my 2009 psych book details an experiment with children, showing that when shown a silhouette of a short fat male they instantly prejudice that person as someone to not be trusted at best, or a child molester at worst. Where as tall and built is someone to be trust.

This is a silhouette, as in no feature but size and waist line can be made out. This is commonly held as an effect of TV stereotyping males who are short or fat as bad people. After all how often is the hero a short fat guy, and it's not meant as a wacky hook. The hero just happens to be short and fat, and it is never brought up as a "WOAH! HE is the hero!!!??? That's just so WACKY."

I could go on, but to try, even for a second to make the case there is no bias agaisnt men for how they should look, or social pressures put on them to look that way is a fucking joke. Am i going to try and compare it to how woman are treated in the media? No. Because lacking the proper gender (I'm a male) i have No god damn way to know what it is like to be a woman. The point is that in that same vein you don't know what it was like to be me. So let's stop this pissing contest shall we? It's meaningless and stupid. Were fighting over whose life sucks more. do you really wanna fight over that?

Let's look at how this is reflected by others.

Take for example, the infinite loop of bullshit woman face at the hands of dick headed male shits. If a woman puts out, shes a whore. If she doesn't put out, shes a frigid ***** bull dike.

Men escape half of that. If a guy gets sex, he is a champ, if he gets lots of sex, he is a man whore or a pimp and that's a fucking medal. If he is a virgin. It's because he is a pussy ******. Is this unfairly biased agaisnt woman? Yeah. The point isn't that men have it worse, but that it's not like life is cherries.

What about interaction with others.

I don't know how an "ugly" girl gets treated badly. Not that i don't think it happens, but because i never picked on people for not fitting my view of beauty. Also, being a guy, i don't know what crap women have to put up with for it.

I can tell you all what happens if your a guy and fugly. You can say i have years of experience dealing with it. I call it highschool.

I have two problems i developed from how girls treated me in highschool

1) If i receive a compliment from a non related female who isn't my wife or is under 40, i assume it is meant sarcastically or as an insult. This comes from years of everything any girl who wasn't a close friend trying to play "Screw with the geek". Essentially the idea was to put on a nice show, then ridicule him just as he was about to leave ear shot. So that he could hear you, but was to far away to really do anything about it.

Two weeks ago a female manager of mine pulled me aside and asked me if i hated her because whenever she said she liked working with me i would instantly shoot it down and insist she is either lying or just being mean. So i told her why i acted like i did, while trying not to cry. She apologized, i don't know why, and insisted she didn't mean it that way.

I want to believe her so badly, yet the small voice tells me she is just lying, and probably ridicules me. That's what that laughing is when I am just out of ear shot. Her giggling over how i so totally bought it.

2)If i come into physical contact with a girl with the above criteria, i have to brush myself off as quickly as possible, as if that person had the plague. This i have so ingrained in me i don't even know i do it anymore. I forget i did it until a girl at work looked at me and said "God dammit XXXXX i don't have fucking cooties". Before stomping off. It took me a moment to realize what i had done.

I explained it to her, as i will explain it to you now. Looking as i do, when you come into contact with a girl, even for a second, your accused of being a disgusting pervert trying to touch them. After awhile i started frantically trying to brush off wherever they touched. My goal was to make them feel rejection before they could make me feel rejected. I just couldn't take seeing that look on there face. The utter, disgusted, disturbed look. All because my arm touched hers.

This later extends to why i stand by whenever a woman drops anything that fits that criteria. I once picked up a pencil for a girl who dropped it. It landed by my foot so i just grabbed it and handed back, didn't say anything, just was being nice. She said " uh.. Thanks...".

I found it in the trash when i went to go sharpen my pencil. I didn't even know the girls name. Yet she was so disgusted i touched her pencil she had to trash.

I once passed a note to a girl, it wasn't from me, it was from someone else. When i handed it to her she had a look of abject horror on her face at the thought i had passed a note to her. Once again, didn't know the girls name, had never actually met her, was just being polite.

Was asked to hand a girl a bag by another girl on the way to the bus stop. She didn't want ot have to walk all the way their. Got to the bus stop, asked who the girl was, found her gave it to her. The stares, the whisper, the disgusted looks. I didn't know the girl, never met her.

Yet... Well.. You know the drill...

That.. Is just a small look into what it's like to be a male growing up. A male who doesn't look how TV wants you to look. Doesn't act how tv wants you to act. This is the kind of shit boys deal with.

I want to remind people that males are not the only ones who can be cruel to someone for not a single other reason then looks...

Do men have it worse growing up then woman? Fuck if i know.. I have testicles remember. I will never truly understand what my wife went through growing up. All i know is she had to dig through way to much shit then was fair...

Mostly, i was trying to show how quickly the two sexes begin to not understand one another. That whole mess? That was me bleeding myself out to show you a glimpse of what i and others like me had to go through growing up. That wasn't me "Trying to garner sympathy" or start a pissing contest, or try and say "yeah woman! No quit your bitching!". If you feel the need to try and tell me how hard your life was to show me up or put me in my place you missed my point. If you feel the need to tell me how hard your life was because you need to tell someone i got the time to read it.

The following is my view on feminism in general.

Spoiler

Finally, this is pretty much the source of the majority of male sexism. First, i want to explain soemthing.

Back when smacking a woman in public was about as frowned upon as farting woman needed to be aggressive and strong. Meek, mild, and passive wasn't going to cut it. When feminism first came to be woman needed to essentially go hard line and take no shit. It was the only way to get attention.

Not because men were evil chauvinistic pigs, but because they literally didn't know any better.

A great deal of men were confused. Men were taught woman liked there station in life. The idea that they were unhappy didn't cross their minds. The loud burst of 'Fuck NO!' woke alot of men up. As said, the aggressiveness was needed to shake up the system. it was the only way women would get the damned respect they deserved.

Enter modern times. The hostility that feminism is associated with? Is hurting it. The guilt and blame tactics only serve to foster a gap between the sexes, not fill it. Trying to keep playing the blame game when the majority of men are half decent guys with no ill will agaisnt you is bad.

No, i didn't choose to be born wit ha penis just to piss you off.
No, I am not part of a secret club meant to oppress women.
Yes, i find it offensive when you blame me by saying something is because of "men"

Because guess what? I'm a man, who is all for woman working any job they can handle. if a woman can drive a tank, then go get'em ladies! Can pass fire fighter tests! Go save some forests! Can get enough votes to run a country? Your my prime minister!

So when you say "men oppress women!" your saying I oppress women.

What feminism needs to be doing now is uniting both sexes together. It needs to stop bullshit like propagating concepts like "A feminine side" where men have to act like women or else they are just dumb brutes, or "All bad things in existence are made by men" or "any phallic objects(like a straight line) are penis symbols meant to remind women of their place beneath men" That kinda shit makes people like me roll their eyes and move on. Because it's sexist. Horribly so. if a guy draws a dick on a wall it's not to oppress women. It's because he is 16 and immature. Missiles are designed like that due to aerodynamics, not because it looks like a penis.

The only guys who judge women based on porn are 15 year old's and douche bags. Even if porn wasn't a thing that guy would still be a douche bag.

Feminists need to drop the idea that men are the enemy.

I find sexism, agaisnt anyone, just as bad as any other from of racism. So why should i have to accept all this guilt for shit i didn't do and had no part of, and submit to your way of thinking to not be an enemy?

Being a male is not a bad thing, and alot of feminists need to understand that before we can carry on. Now is not the time to paint the other sex as an enemy, but a friend. Your enemies are Misogynists, not Males.

As well i know not all feminists are the same. I know most of them are sane, rational thinking people who are just being outshouted by zealot idiots. Thus why i propose stop using the term feminist and just call yourself a humanitarian. You work for all people, of all races, of either gender. Now is the time of unity. Not of making lines, not of pointing fingers and laying blame. Were all in this crock of shit together. So why not dig our way out together, rather then blame each other for how we got into it in the first place.

Is that really so unreasonable?

Wow... that was a mouthful... Damn i think i spent three hours on this... Why Can't i have this focus for my term papers... God damn...

All of this... it's meant to illustrate a point.. a big one...

Sexism agaisnt males... is a reality. To ignore it, is silly, to try and raise awareness of it seems to piss people off.

As well men and women are fundamentally different. We are not equal, but neither is superior. We are different, but the same... Ya know? We will never understand the ups and downs and bullshit we both experience at the hands of the other, and Christ, even our own sex. The cruelty and bullshit. Sure, we can label statistics, but as i said, until you can look a child who has been molested in the eyes and tell them "your misery is statistically less important then the other genders" Kindly drop it. Every act of blind aggression and pain is meaningless and wrong. It doesn't matter who it is done against and with what frequency, and we need to be one force fighting to say "I've had fucking enough."

The desire to wipe out discrimination shouldn't be singular. If someone is turned down from their job because of the color of their skin or sexual organs the person who should be blamed is the bastard who did it. Not the race or gender they happen to be.

Because i am white born in Canada I will never evertruly understand the bullshit every other race has to go through.

Because i am male i will never evertruly understand the shit woman have to face from assholes.

But i will never accept that is a reason to be divided. I will keep pushing for people to just drop these fucking minority groups and realize the truth.

Your not fucking minorities. Your people. The people who want to divide us, put us into groups and rank us. Those are the enemies.

They... They are the fucking minority.

Thank you...

 

[dystopiaINC]

I won't provide a link to the sight i found this story on, mostly because it has quite a bit of adult malarial on it, but this was the only place i could even FIND and article about this story. which i had heard through word of mouth before hand.

the story was about a man who was intentionally inebriated by a woman to the point where he was too drunk to fight her of, she proceeded to put a plastic strap-on dildo on and rape him with out the benefit of lubricant until the walls of his rectum tore and he was severely injured. in the court case she was let off on the grounds that woman can't rape a man.

yes i think double standard are in place and the word may actually be worse than just double standards


this was a nice series of videos on the subject told by a woman's perspective no less.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlHFj208qPs

Long story short, and overly simplified to a ridiculous extent, Women get less pay, fewer job options, get treated like sex objects, can't abandon their child before birth, get the toughest jobs parenting, are raped a billion times more often then men, get taken less seriously then men in a lot of fields regardless of ability, are less physically strong and more likely to be overpowered, get treated like outright dirt from the truly sexist, have a history centuries long of being second class citizens AND get to be the good guy when they don't really deserve it in a commercial. That last bit is for balance. It's far from perfect, but in the grand scheme of things, there's really no harm done.

Long story short, and overly simplified to a ridiculous extent, Women get less pay, fewer job options, get treated like sex objects, can't abandon their child before birth, get the toughest jobs parenting, are raped a billion times more often then men, get taken less seriously then men in a lot of fields regardless of ability, are less physically strong and more likely to be overpowered, get treated like outright dirt from the truly sexist, have a history centuries long of being second class citizens AND get to be the good guy when they don't really deserve it in a commercial. That last bit is for balance. It's far from perfect, but in the grand scheme of things, there's really no harm done.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0L3ik9fp-M&feature=related
this series addresses some of those ideas.

 

[Drudgelmir]

I have met many fathers who are often criticised when going out with their daughters without the mother for being child molesters and so forth, one even got kicked out of a public park for simply taking a photo of his daughter playing in the park. It is just as common for women to molest children as it is for men to molest children, yet people have a problem with a man and his daughter but not a woman and her son.

If people want men to step up and be great fathers and take a role in life, especially if a woman is to be working as well. it seems society wants woman to take on traditional men's jobs but is unwilling to let men take on some of the traditional women's jobs. How is that equality?

I apologize in advance for this.

True Dat!

I say society as it stands in just about all the world is stupid and broken. Some more so than others but it's amazing how stupid people are in countries with enough wealth to assure than your average person isn't offensively ignorant... and yet most still seem to be.

Now mostly I see stupid are ignorant + arrogant. You can't educate a stupid person well because they are sure they already know more than you do. So you can't really help truly stupid people but it seems even first world countries don't do enough to curb the flow of simple ignorance either.


Tangentially related but I'm offended how I get backwards discriminated because I'm white, male and heterosexual, and we are all super treated well and successful and the lesser treated folks should all rise up against us and treat us like shit due to their insane bullshit troll logic.

Then I get traditionally discriminated against because I'm autistic. Both that as I am high functioning and can talk and communicate that I'm "not really autistic" and should shut up as if I'd make up all of that for some illogical bullshit reason. Also because I am autistic and think different than your average neurotypical person and I should be treated like shit because I don't think like half the "normal" people in the world and must therefore be some sort of fucked up evolutionary mutation, or abomination against whatever deity of your choice.

Also that I don't have a great deal of friends and contacts to use the massive neoptism of the world to help me, so everyone should just treat me like shit because I have standards for friendship and don't get out much and I don't have tons of kin with a freaking CIA agents dossier worth of contacts to help me in my life so I'm a screw up for that too.

In closing let me sum up my opinion of this bullshit.

FUCK YOU WORLD. FUCK YOU AND YOUR SOCIETAL IRRATIONAL AS FUCK DOUBLE STANDARD, AVERAGE SINGLE STANDARD, JUDGMENTAL, HATEFUL, CONNIVING, DECEITFUL, RACIST, SEXIST,CLASSIST,NATIONALIST BULLSHIT AND KINDLY GO DIE IN A:HELL,HEAVEN,OIL,WOOD, MAGNESIUM,GASOLINE, KEROSENE,OXYGEN,COAL,NUCLEAR FIRE.

Honestly I'm so sick of the shit I have gotten from people since I was a small child that it makes me wish I could vomit out hate filled, highly corrosive bile(I'm aware stomach acid isn't that corrosive I'm wishing I could inject hate and rage into it making it so) on half of the worthless motherfuckers on this earth that keep dragging humanity into the mud and the shit when we could be so much better.

This about sums the subject up better than anything. You show too much favour to a select group, you'll make everybody feel like this guy. Do you really want to live in a world where everybody feels like this just for being themselves?

 

[b3nn3tt]

Yes, there are plenty of cases of sexism against men. There are also plenty of cases of sexism against women. I think that the problem is less about any sexism shown to either side, and more about the reactions of the respective sexes. The problem as I see it is that men are too quick to jump on anything that disadvantages them, while women are too quick to jump on anything that disadvantages them. Instead, everything should recognise inequality in its own right, and fight for both sides, otherwise equality will become increasingly unlikely.

That sounded slightly preachy, but I think I got my point across. Basically, nobody should be fighting for male rights or female rights, people should just be fighting for equal rights.

 

[Hagi]

Snip.

Misogyny, my good man, misogyny.

Beyond that... Both avenues of sexism are fairly well traveled, so ignore, keep walking, and occasionally laugh at the extremists in either direction.

There's a big difference between being pro-something and being anti-something else. Misogyny is an anti-female stance.

I do not wish to close the avenue of discussion by shouting 'Semantics!' and leaving, but I'm not sure I see your differenciation. If one is Pro-Life, then one is by necessity Anti-choice.

Do you have any idea whatsoever what Misogyny means?

Misogyny: Hatred of women.

That's what Misogyny means. And it's the absolute complete opposite of the male equivalent of feminism.

Here's what feminism means:

Feminism: a doctrine or movement that advocates equal rights for women.

which makes the male equivalent: a doctrine or movement that advocates equal rights for men.

And you think "Hatred of women" equals "a doctrine or movement that advocates equal rights for men"?

Seriously? Did you notice the equal in there?

Feminism, and by extent it's male equivalent (which has no name), is about EQUALITY. Neither are about hating men or women. Neither are about superiority of one over the other. They're about EQUALITY.

 

[Exmigrant]

I'll prolly get attacked for my opinion/experiences, but here goes.

Not to sound like an ass, but most females I've encountered expect a double standard in their lives. They want to be treated as equals, but still expect men to provide for them.

(again, this is only in my experience)

They can't have this both ways, you can either expect a man to be chivalrous, or you can expect him to treat you as an equal. But to demand equality and still expect the opposite gender to act a specific way towards you is asinine.

Please note, I don't treat people differently because of their gender, I treat them as a human, or as I would like to be treated.

 

[TimeLord]

when was the last time a newspaper published a story of a woman raping a man? Never.

Don't be naive, of course it's happened. And when it happens the papers would definitely be interested. It wouldn't make the national papers and it just doesn't happen very often.

And it isn't actually as hard as you think. A women might ask a guy if they can buy them a drink, slip a combination of viagra and rohypnol in it and your away.

It doesn't look very weird for a women to be supporting a guy out of a pub, it just looks like he drank a bit too much.

I'm not sure why a girl would do that though, if any non-completely-ugly female offered sex up on a plate, you're guaranteed to get some action.

I never said it didn't happen. Of course it does. I said when it does it never gets newspaper coverage.

 

[Asti]

Oh dear, people have really wrong ideas about sexism. Take a look into popular culture and tell me how that isn't sexist. (I know I'm going to get a lot of shit for this post...)

So as other people are much more eloquent than I, I'll just share some videos. Food for thought, maybe.

Spoiler: Bunch of feminist videos

 

[Haagrum]

This is interesting because, unlike what many people seem to assume, sexism against men and sexism against women is not mutually exclusive. Feminism seeks equality for women, and part of that is getting equality for men (sadly, in mainstream feminism it equality for men isn't such a big deal as it should be). Same goes with masculism (male feminism!), only the other way round.

In fact, sexism against both genders goes hand in hand. Women get portrayed as delicate flowers, and in conjunction, men become hulking emotionless brutes.

Couldn't agree more.

Having a binary view of sex and sexism doesn't help anyone, and neither does the "formal equality" argument that ignores cultural, economic and social factors by presuming that all men are con-conspirators in patriarchy and all women are victims. It's 1960s-style first-wave feminism and that view of the world should be consigned to the dustbin. Credible academic gender studies in the 21st century is generally much less concerned with recognising that men and women get treated differently than it is in figuring out why that still happens, and how it's happening now. Read some studies on teenage sexual behaviour and you'll see how staggeringly complex the gender-related issues are.

A lot of the more current research into gender and social stereotyping focuses on the unhealthy concepts and ideals about each sex. We probably know more about the factors shaping female self-conceptualisation and development, but largely because that's been the focus of more effort. New approaches to promoting "equality" are aimed largely at giving people the freedom to choose their path, rather than being expected to fit a stereotype.

The macho bullshit that men are socialised with and expected to swallow can harm them immensely. Men and boys are now under increasing image-related pressure, just as women and girls are (although I'll admit it's nowhere near as entrenched). How often does a male lead in a TV show or advert *not* have a waxed chest, solid pecs and six-pack abs? How many male posters on this forum have been belittled or humiliated for not being good at sports, or for being bookish/a nerd? It gets worse in terms of work-life balance and stress when men have a family - men don't have any other "valid" life choices other than provider and father in the stereotypical version of masculinity. Why are male suicide rates so much higher than female suicide rates in the Western world? It can't only be because of the Y chromosome and the hormones. In a lot of cases, it's because men burden themselves with particular expectations and are expected to be tough and not to display emotion, they rarely seek the help they need. I'm grossly oversimplifying a serious issue here, but I do it to make the point that it's never as simple as throwing mud at each other because the "other side" seems to get an advantage in some respect.

TL; DR - Focusing on issues of "men make more money on average" or "women get the kids more often" misses the real issue of why we treat people differently on the basis of sex. It's mind-blowingly complex and you can't boil it down to sex alone. Merely having a penis or a vagina doesn't dictate your life's direction, but it can greatly affect your odds of obtaining your goals in life without a hell of a lot more difficulty. Culture and media play a HUGE part in sustaining those barriers. And that's just not good enough.

 

[Haagrum]

Oh dear, people have really wrong ideas about sexism. Take a look into popular culture and tell me how that isn't sexist. (I know I'm going to get a lot of shit for this post...)

So as other people are much more eloquent than I, I'll just share some videos. Food for thought, maybe.

/tips hat

That said, I find the dichotomised TV representation of women as either hyper-competent author-fantasy-representing super-humans or distracted nagging machines (and men as either house-trained buffed-up sex idols or idiotic habitually-lying perverts) is just as offensive as the narrator finds the advertising in the last clip.

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

Yeaah...no, your arguments seemed to be isolated incidents as well as being particularly vague and thoroughly unconvincing. I really have no idea what's triggering this, but I swear I see more and more males, most prevelantly on the Internet bitching about this 'it's only sexist/racsit when a white man does it' and such other tripe. You really don't know how lucky you have it, so stop being so paranoid, notice that societal, media and corporate views towards minorities are still being held in lower regard, accept while there are a few double standards that favour women, far FAR more of them favour men and most of all....

Its not often but when men are raped and in the event we are brutally tortured and dismembered women seem to find this funny. I dont know why. This is what makes me angry.

Case and point. The event where that man got captured, tied up, force fed drugs, starved, and raped over and over and over for 4 days? Many women on TV and i knew and on the internet said this was hilarious.

That chat show where they laughed on tv (totally ok) about that man whos penis was chopped off and blended for wanted a divorce. When told it was sexist they went "its just different for men" [when they are brutally assaulted and dismembered]. This physically sickens me. The media seems ok with sexism toward men. To the extreme. Try and imagine a man laughing at a rape, sorry a kidnap imprisonment drugging serial rape, or an instance where a womans breasts were removed and blended in front of her on TELEVISION and it was APPROVED and ENCOURAGED. Can you? There would be fucking riots.

 

[Liudeius]

Yeah, but too many people are idiots who argue "being oppressed means you can do whatever the hell you want, even when you were not the victim of that oppression and the ones you are doing things to aren't the one's who oppressed your ancestors".

There is still sexism against women (although that pay thing I think might something to do with most of the fortune 500 being men rather than an actual difference in the salary of equal positions, I don't have any information to back that up so it's likely wrong though.)
But that doesn't mean there isn't sexism against men.

And what's up with everyone whining about sexual oppression of women? It's the opposite, men are so sexually obsessed with women, that women are expected, nearly forced, into being extremely sexual individuals. Why does a "strong" woman not only have to be a high ranking worker, but also have to show off her body?
A truly un-oppressed individual (regardless of race or gender) does whatever the hell they want as long as it doesn't harm others.

A housewife could be a "stronger", more self-guided woman than aforementioned office worker.

 

[Adrian Neyland]

I do consider the idea of feminism has stepped so far in the wrong direction, where white middle classes men are the only ones who are allowed to be the but of a joke, and if you look though history, white men have had it pretty easy so it seems ok to group them into group them into a stereotype, this isn't a huge problem right now, but the problem I see developing is the idea that as this stereotype becomes more socially acceptable it is more likely to be accepted as fact, and when stereotypes get accepted as fact things like the Holocaust in WWII happen. Seriously look it up, that is how the whole thing kicked off. I don't think that feminism would be to be insulting to the other side, male stereotypes can be equally as harmful, we just have to accept that people all can't be categorized into groups, people don't work that way. Anyway if you remove the societal pressures that make people act differently, men and women aren't really that different, this whole "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" bollocks is something we've imposed on ourselves as a society, once we take away all these homogenized groups we put on people so we can try to better understand the way they act and predict their future actions, we will better as a society.

 

[LuckyClover95]

Okay, so I understand that this thread has been done about as many times as the "favorite game" poll, but I feel like its never been done WELL. So I'm going to take a shot at it, and see if I can do it justice.

ok, so I was watching spongebob because my Dad hates that show and I wanted to spite him. Anyway, a commercial came up for some shoes, were a bunch of boys were in a soccer match with a bunch of generic girls, and the mascot says sarcastically, "ready to give up, girls?" Then, one of the generic girls, which is meant to represent girls in general, remember,cheats by turning off the lights, at which point the boys shoes light up bla bla bla. But the general potrayal of girls is as weak, cheating, epic fail prone losers, whereas the boys are strong, athletic, great, fabulous, athletes. Pretty bad, right?

But I'm lying. The genders are switched around. So it has to be equally bad.

All I'm saying is that there has to be a double standard. Otherwise, men will be being called perverts if they so much as glance at a woman. Plus, you do realise that men are raped too? Why isn't THAT big news?

Another example is a movie that came out a few months ago, and did reasonably well. It was about two men trying to help a hot girl, but they end up having to be helped by her. What if the positions were reversed? Two girls try to help a muscular, handsome man, but end up being ditzy and having to be helped by the manly man.

You have to consider stuff like this, because if you only pay attention to one side of an argument, the world would die.

EDIT: So apparently, people seem to think that I'm anti-feminist. This is wrong. I am simply pointing out that you have to pay attention to both ends of the spectrum. There is a lot of work to do on both sides, and I'm just trying to help.

I'm a woman and I completely agree. There's another current thread where I ranted about sexism. It sounds weird, but I don't like guys who say they won't hit a girl - I should probably appreciate, you know, not being hit, but I don't like the reasons behind it. I don't like that girls can hit guys and get away with it.
I hate the men should pay for things idea, women wanting a good man to look after them, when women want equality.
JennaMarbles (who I love) says it perfectly:
In concerning male rape, while they are both terrible, you hear about male rape a lot more as it is easier for a man to rape. Women who rape often get worse sentences because it requires them to probably drug the man and be more tactical.

 

[retyopy]

Except it's not always males. I've experienced woman saying that the way other woman are treated by men in other countries is awful, all the while sitting on a comfortable couch, watching tv.

I was under the impression that we were discussing the situation within our nations of residence. The ones that we can actually draw experience from and adequately assess the current state of affairs for. That's the thing that annoys me, people who complain of mistreatment of gender when they have had no experience of this themselves, or have seen it happen to those around them.

Erm, yes, so I assume that you are absolutely drowning in sexism on a daily basis. And don't give any of that "never experiencd" bull. Talk to my mother for five minutes and you'll see what I mean.