Sexism in gameplay

[TJC]

So apparently reddit is having a bad effect on me because after yet another thread about Anita Sarkessian I was compelled to do a thread about this topic on my own but this time it's with a twist.

I think we can all sorta agree that blatant sexism and misogyny in narration is pretty bad, no matter the medium, right?
I mean tropes can be used pretty much universally in books, films and video games. But the thing is video games are special because of their interactivity and there are only few games that are inherently misogynistic in terms of gameplay. Yes, there are quite a few games which feature horrible and frankly stupid tropes of female character and do depict women in quite a sexist way. And if we seperate video games in terms of this interactivity we'll find that there aren't that many games which depict misogyny through gameplay (aside from porn games, I guess :/ )

Frankly, I can think of one off the top of my head:

Super Princess Peach on the Nintendo DS

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a9/Super_Princess_Peach.jpg/250px-Super_Princess_Peach.jpg

So we have finally a reversal of roles after all these years and her only power is SUPER PMSing? What the hell? It's been established before that she can use magic (Mario RPGs) and can kick ass (smash bros) and fucking fly (Super Mario Bros 2) and you give her RAGING EMOTIONS as gameplay mechanic, implying women are cunning, effectively heartless beasts that use emotions like other would use tools to control everyone around them? What the fuck, Nintendo, what the flying fuck?

So what's the point of this thread? well, it's not about whether there is or isn't sexism in video games but rather finding and discussing examples which feature sexism exclusively in their gameplay and not in the narration because I can't think of many more and I believe that's a dimension not many have taken into account so far.

... There is no way that this thread will derail in any way, isn't there?

 

[Arakasi]

I honestly think that you're the one being sexist by furthering the steryotype that women have 'raging emotions'. Pointing out a videogame character's powers does nothing to help the issue at all.

Also, it's not like any male has ever had a power based upon their 'anger' or 'PMSing' as you'd call it. Hardly sexist.

Also also: "But the thing is video games are special because of their interactivity". No. All art is to be judged by the same standard.

 

[lacktheknack]

Beyond things like Oblivion giving females a strength drop and an endurance boost, I can't think of any.

Although being upset because a stereotypical princess is given "Raging Emotions" as an ability? I'm guessing you don't watch many comedies, right? Besides, I have a game on my tablet right now where one of the enemies has a fury-based ability that ups his attack every turn. Isn't that kind of exactly what you're saying is "sexist against women"?

 

[NeutralDrow]

I thought the premise of Super Princess Peach was that everyone was afflicted with raging emotions, and Peach is the only one left standing because she's the only one with emotional self-control as opposed to emotional self-repression...you could argue sexism in some direction, certainly, but that one seems a bit off.

 

[Baron_Rouge]

I think you're overreacting a fair bit...while there's no doubt that sexism in gameplay exists, why is it sexist to have a woman with powers based on rage? Asura in Asura's Wrath has powers based on rage, and he's male. The whole game is based around his anger. Is that sexist?

 

[Bocaj2000]

I think you're overreacting a fair bit...while there's no doubt that sexism in gameplay exists, why is it sexist to have a woman with powers based on rage? Asura in Asura's Wrath has powers based on rage, and he's male. The whole game is based around his anger. Is that sexist?

Sexism towards men is more subtle because it is embraced. Men take pride in their ability to fix cars, fight, and drink. Granted, there are many women who take pride in cooking, worrying, and frailness, but in American culture their roles and expectations are changing.

In my opinion, Asura's Wrath's level of sexism is on the same level as Cooking Mama. By that, I mean not at all. Both games are solid and portray both genders in embraced roles.

 

[rbstewart7263]

I think you're overreacting a fair bit...while there's no doubt that sexism in gameplay exists, why is it sexist to have a woman with powers based on rage? Asura in Asura's Wrath has powers based on rage, and he's male. The whole game is based around his anger. Is that sexist?

Sexism towards men is more subtle because it is embraced. Men take pride in their ability to fix cars, fight, and drink. Granted, there are many women who take pride in cooking, worrying, and frailness, but in American culture their roles and expectations are changing.

In my opinion, Asura's Wrath's level of sexism is on the same level as Cooking Mama. By that, I mean not at all. Both games are solid and portray both genders in embraced roles.

Well by that standard mario is the stereotypical male hero who "handles shit" and stomps on everything he sees. Manly stuff an all.

See people its perspective you could literally construe sexism from anything with a gender.

 

[Kopikatsu]

implying women are cunning, effectively heartless beasts that use emotions like other would use tools to control everyone around them?

I'm 99.6% sure that that is an accurate description of the average woman, yes. The things that I've seen.

Anyway, seeing Super Princess Peach reminded me of this;

Spoiler

 

[TehCookie]

I honestly think that you're the one being sexist by furthering the steryotype that women have 'raging emotions'. Pointing out a videogame character's powers does nothing to help the issue at all.

Also, it's not like any male has ever had a power based upon their 'anger' or 'PMSing' as you'd call it. Hardly sexist.

Also also: "But the thing is video games are special because of their interactivity". No. All art is to be judged by the same standard.

So you'd judge a book by the colors it uses? Writing and painting are both art.

OP: I'm going to bring up that a lot of games can be used for misogyny when the actual game isn't. Like that one guy in Skyrim who cut off women's heads and decorated his house with their stripped dead bodies. You can play around in GTA and only attack women and ignore men.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

I honestly think that you're the one being sexist by furthering the steryotype that women have 'raging emotions'. Pointing out a videogame character's powers does nothing to help the issue at all.

Also, it's not like any male has ever had a power based upon their 'anger' or 'PMSing' as you'd call it. Hardly sexist.

Dragon ball Z, case and point.

"ZOMGBBQWTF WHAT A SEXIST SHOW, THIS IS TEACHING MALES IT'S OKAY TO GET ANGRY AND BEAT PEOPLE!" *jokes*

OT: I prefer that we all just take a chill pill and stop looking too hard into if/if not someone was meaning to be hurtful/stereotypical on something.


however, if the game seems like it's sole purpose/constantly nagging at you with misogynistic/sexist themes, then yeah, i'd say you've got quite the point to raise.

 

[Bocaj2000]

I think you're overreacting a fair bit...while there's no doubt that sexism in gameplay exists, why is it sexist to have a woman with powers based on rage? Asura in Asura's Wrath has powers based on rage, and he's male. The whole game is based around his anger. Is that sexist?

Sexism towards men is more subtle because it is embraced. Men take pride in their ability to fix cars, fight, and drink. Granted, there are many women who take pride in cooking, worrying, and frailness, but in American culture their roles and expectations are changing.

In my opinion, Asura's Wrath's level of sexism is on the same level as Cooking Mama. By that, I mean not at all. Both games are solid and portray both genders in embraced roles.

Well by that standard mario is the stereotypical male hero who "handles shit" and stomps on everything he sees. Manly stuff an all.

See people its perspective you could literally construe sexism from anything with a gender.

Yes. Mostly because that is what sexism is:

2: behavior, conditions, or attitudes that foster stereotypes of social roles based on sex
-Merriam Webster's Online Dictionary

Sexism isn't always harmful. However, perpetuating gender roles, particularly a woman's, hinders cultural evolution and modernism.

 

[Arakasi]

I honestly think that you're the one being sexist by furthering the steryotype that women have 'raging emotions'. Pointing out a videogame character's powers does nothing to help the issue at all.

Also, it's not like any male has ever had a power based upon their 'anger' or 'PMSing' as you'd call it. Hardly sexist.

Also also: "But the thing is video games are special because of their interactivity". No. All art is to be judged by the same standard.

So you'd judge a book by the colors it uses? Writing and painting are both art.

Umm, yes?
To an extent anyway. I more recognise the fact that the artwork and the book itself are more often than not done by two seperate people, so I tend to judge them seperately. An example of both a good book and a clever artwork that I like would be this:

Spoiler

 

[aguspal]

Oh god another one of those, I love those threads its like a part of an ongoing series. My post is also utterly useless, that too is something I love.


I dont really know WHAT to say to this thread thougt...

 

[ShinyCharizard]

When it comes to sexism in games I just struggle to care at all. I can't be the only one who just doesn't give a shit.

 

[Rawne1980]

When it comes to sexism in games I just struggle to care at all. I can't be the only one who just doesn't give a shit.

Nope, you're not. I too can't seem to bring myself to give a single flying fuck.

I do believe this is relevant to this topic though....

How many threads have we had over this and i'm still seeing the exact same debates we've seen in every single other "sexism in games" thread.

If you are going to start a new thread about it at least cover ground we haven't already seen at least 30 times in the past 2 weeks.

 

[axlryder]

When it comes to sexism in games I just struggle to care at all. I can't be the only one who just doesn't give a shit.

When it's something that seems as petty as what the OP is bringing up, I also struggle to impart fecal matter towards the topic at hand.

 

[Abomination]

I like my sexisim in games, especially when it's in a non-fictional historical setting. I can then tell any rampant feminist "This is what your forebears were fighting against, not men opening doors or any other trigger that sets you off."

 

[Mid Boss]

Dragon ball Z, case and point.

"ZOMGBBQWTF WHAT A SEXIST SHOW, THIS IS TEACHING MALES IT'S OKAY TO GET ANGRY AND BEAT PEOPLE!" *jokes*

OT: I prefer that we all just take a chill pill and stop looking too hard into if/if not someone was meaning to be hurtful/stereotypical on something.


however, if the game seems like it's sole purpose/constantly nagging at you with misogynistic/sexist themes, then yeah, i'd say you've got quite the point to raise.

DBZ was surprisingly non sexist... compared to most anime. It did have a single female fighter... for one season... AND she didn't roll over and cry at the first sign of danger. Hell I don't think she EVER cried and she even humiliated and beat the crap out of Vegeta. Now that I think about it, Android 18 is the most non-sexist stereotyped anime woman I can think of. They didn't even use her for fan service!

I suddenly have a lot more respect for DBZ.

 

[Arakasi]

Dragon ball Z, case and point.

"ZOMGBBQWTF WHAT A SEXIST SHOW, THIS IS TEACHING MALES IT'S OKAY TO GET ANGRY AND BEAT PEOPLE!" *jokes*

OT: I prefer that we all just take a chill pill and stop looking too hard into if/if not someone was meaning to be hurtful/stereotypical on something.


however, if the game seems like it's sole purpose/constantly nagging at you with misogynistic/sexist themes, then yeah, i'd say you've got quite the point to raise.

DBZ was surprisingly non sexist... compared to most anime. It did have a single female fighter... for one season... AND she didn't roll over and cry at the first sign of danger. Hell I don't think she EVER cried and she even humiliated and beat the crap out of Vegeta. Now that I think about it, Android 18 is the most non-sexist stereotyped anime woman I can think of. They didn't even use her for fan service!

I suddenly have a lot more respect for DBZ.

I actually didn't say any of that. That was the guy who quoted me.
Also, he wasn't saying DBZ was sexist, he was saying that DBZ portrayed a steryotype of an angry man much in the same manner as the steryotype exists of an angry woman in reference to what I said.

As for Android 18, that was an android. Does that really count?

 

[Mid Boss]

Dragon ball Z, case and point.

"ZOMGBBQWTF WHAT A SEXIST SHOW, THIS IS TEACHING MALES IT'S OKAY TO GET ANGRY AND BEAT PEOPLE!" *jokes*

OT: I prefer that we all just take a chill pill and stop looking too hard into if/if not someone was meaning to be hurtful/stereotypical on something.


however, if the game seems like it's sole purpose/constantly nagging at you with misogynistic/sexist themes, then yeah, i'd say you've got quite the point to raise.

DBZ was surprisingly non sexist... compared to most anime. It did have a single female fighter... for one season... AND she didn't roll over and cry at the first sign of danger. Hell I don't think she EVER cried and she even humiliated and beat the crap out of Vegeta. Now that I think about it, Android 18 is the most non-sexist stereotyped anime woman I can think of. They didn't even use her for fan service!

I suddenly have a lot more respect for DBZ.

I actually didn't say any of that. That was the guy who quoted me.
Also, he wasn't saying DBZ was sexist, he was saying that DBZ portrayed a steryotype of an angry man much in the same manner as the steryotype exists of an angry woman in reference to what I said.

As for Android 18, that was an android. Does that really count?

My bad. Anyway. Technically she was a cyborg, they were street thugs until Gero converted them, and she did manage to give birth. Don't see that as being something Gero would put on his priority list to install into her so it's safe to assume she kept her girly parts.

Even if she was full android. Still has the female form, which is seen as inherently weaker. Still falls under the same tropes. Think it even says her brother is stronger despite them being identical. Probably simply by virtue of having balls. And not the ones you make wishes with.... Sorry. Couldn't help it.