Sexism in gameplay

[JudgeGame]

You are talking about a franchise where they made a transsexual dinosaur because lol transsexuals are hilarious and you control a man who's only reason to live is to protect a woman who is incapable of doing so herself even though she's supposed to be a monarch. I can see why they thought having a game about a woman who achieves everything by crying and manipulating men would work out fine.

 

[Kopikatsu]

Dragon ball Z, case and point.

"ZOMGBBQWTF WHAT A SEXIST SHOW, THIS IS TEACHING MALES IT'S OKAY TO GET ANGRY AND BEAT PEOPLE!" *jokes*

OT: I prefer that we all just take a chill pill and stop looking too hard into if/if not someone was meaning to be hurtful/stereotypical on something.


however, if the game seems like it's sole purpose/constantly nagging at you with misogynistic/sexist themes, then yeah, i'd say you've got quite the point to raise.

DBZ was surprisingly non sexist... compared to most anime. It did have a single female fighter... for one season... AND she didn't roll over and cry at the first sign of danger. Hell I don't think she EVER cried and she even humiliated and beat the crap out of Vegeta. Now that I think about it, Android 18 is the most non-sexist stereotyped anime woman I can think of. They didn't even use her for fan service!

I suddenly have a lot more respect for DBZ.

Considering that the meaning of sexism is 'behavior, conditions, or attitudes that foster stereotypes of social roles based on sex', DBZ is one of the most sexist series imaginable. Men do the bulk of the fighting, spend half of every episode screaming and raging, etc.

But, this is why 'sexism' is a stupid term in the first place.

 

[JudgeGame]

When it comes to sexism in games I just struggle to care at all. I can't be the only one who just doesn't give a shit.

Nope, you're not. I too can't seem to bring myself to give a single flying fuck.

I do believe this is relevant to this topic though....

How many threads have we had over this and i'm still seeing the exact same debates we've seen in every single other "sexism in games" thread.

If you are going to start a new thread about it at least cover ground we haven't already seen at least 30 times in the past 2 weeks.

If you don't care, why do you bother reading these threads AND commenting?

 

[Arakasi]

Dragon ball Z, case and point.

"ZOMGBBQWTF WHAT A SEXIST SHOW, THIS IS TEACHING MALES IT'S OKAY TO GET ANGRY AND BEAT PEOPLE!" *jokes*

OT: I prefer that we all just take a chill pill and stop looking too hard into if/if not someone was meaning to be hurtful/stereotypical on something.


however, if the game seems like it's sole purpose/constantly nagging at you with misogynistic/sexist themes, then yeah, i'd say you've got quite the point to raise.

DBZ was surprisingly non sexist... compared to most anime. It did have a single female fighter... for one season... AND she didn't roll over and cry at the first sign of danger. Hell I don't think she EVER cried and she even humiliated and beat the crap out of Vegeta. Now that I think about it, Android 18 is the most non-sexist stereotyped anime woman I can think of. They didn't even use her for fan service!

I suddenly have a lot more respect for DBZ.

I actually didn't say any of that. That was the guy who quoted me.
Also, he wasn't saying DBZ was sexist, he was saying that DBZ portrayed a steryotype of an angry man much in the same manner as the steryotype exists of an angry woman in reference to what I said.

As for Android 18, that was an android. Does that really count?

My bad. Anyway. Technically she was a cyborg, they were street thugs until Gero converted them, and she did manage to give birth. Don't see that as being something Gero would put on his priority list to install into her so it's safe to assume she kept her girly parts.

Even if she was full android. Still has the female form, which is seen as inherently weaker. Still falls under the same tropes. Think it even says her brother is stronger despite them being identical. Probably simply by virtue of having balls. And not the ones you make wishes with.... Sorry. Couldn't help it.

Nice one.

Anyhow, I didn't really watch DBZ past the Freeza Saga, so I know little about Android 18. But yeah, that seems valid, it's a shame none of the other female characters (to my knowledge) were like that though.

 

[Mid Boss]

Dragon ball Z, case and point.

"ZOMGBBQWTF WHAT A SEXIST SHOW, THIS IS TEACHING MALES IT'S OKAY TO GET ANGRY AND BEAT PEOPLE!" *jokes*

OT: I prefer that we all just take a chill pill and stop looking too hard into if/if not someone was meaning to be hurtful/stereotypical on something.


however, if the game seems like it's sole purpose/constantly nagging at you with misogynistic/sexist themes, then yeah, i'd say you've got quite the point to raise.

DBZ was surprisingly non sexist... compared to most anime. It did have a single female fighter... for one season... AND she didn't roll over and cry at the first sign of danger. Hell I don't think she EVER cried and she even humiliated and beat the crap out of Vegeta. Now that I think about it, Android 18 is the most non-sexist stereotyped anime woman I can think of. They didn't even use her for fan service!

I suddenly have a lot more respect for DBZ.

Considering that the meaning of sexism is 'behavior, conditions, or attitudes that foster stereotypes of social roles based on sex', DBZ is one of the most sexist series imaginable. Men do the bulk of the fighting, spend half of every episode screaming and raging, etc.

But, this is why 'sexism' is a stupid term in the first place.

I assume you're talking about sexism against men.

I wasn't talking about the men. I was talking about Android 18. Who, in anime circles, is a pretty strong female who never breaks down into the crying, emotional, helpless, mess like other warrior women in anime do.

Please don't try to justify sexism against women by saying it exists against guys too. Oh heaven forbid someone paint you as a powerful, muscular hero/protector/chick magnet. You poor thing. Obviously since this exists against you then painting women as emotional, weak, helpless messes is fine and all this debate and fighting for equality is just silly!

 

[ShinyCharizard]

When it comes to sexism in games I just struggle to care at all. I can't be the only one who just doesn't give a shit.

Nope, you're not. I too can't seem to bring myself to give a single flying fuck.

I do believe this is relevant to this topic though....

How many threads have we had over this and i'm still seeing the exact same debates we've seen in every single other "sexism in games" thread.

If you are going to start a new thread about it at least cover ground we haven't already seen at least 30 times in the past 2 weeks.

If you don't care, why do you bother reading these threads AND commenting?

Because I enjoy pointing out how much I don't care.

 

[MagunBFP]

Dragon ball Z, case and point.

"ZOMGBBQWTF WHAT A SEXIST SHOW, THIS IS TEACHING MALES IT'S OKAY TO GET ANGRY AND BEAT PEOPLE!" *jokes*

OT: I prefer that we all just take a chill pill and stop looking too hard into if/if not someone was meaning to be hurtful/stereotypical on something.


however, if the game seems like it's sole purpose/constantly nagging at you with misogynistic/sexist themes, then yeah, i'd say you've got quite the point to raise.

DBZ was surprisingly non sexist... compared to most anime. It did have a single female fighter... for one season... AND she didn't roll over and cry at the first sign of danger. Hell I don't think she EVER cried and she even humiliated and beat the crap out of Vegeta. Now that I think about it, Android 18 is the most non-sexist stereotyped anime woman I can think of. They didn't even use her for fan service!

I suddenly have a lot more respect for DBZ.

There's a few things you're missing about why Android 18 is still perpetuating sexism.

First of all to be that strong and good as a fighter she had be effectively be a man with boobs, she wasn't womanly at all. Sexist.

Then there's the fact that, she is helpless against Cell relying on Men to fight him, while Krillin looks after her, and then Krillin again looks after her after she is forced out of the Perfect Cell Fusion... then after healing she falls in love with her brave protector, marries him and has his baby. Sexist.

In the Buu saga, she's still exceptionally strong, but is kept hidden on Kami's tower expected just to watch while all the men and their male offspring fight saving the women. Sexist.

For the record I think the 3 points I just wrote are complete and utter bullshit, but they do show that if you are looking for sexism you will find it. Sadly this is what some people do, they believe there is inequality and will create mountains out of molehills to prove it.

 

[JudgeGame]

When it comes to sexism in games I just struggle to care at all. I can't be the only one who just doesn't give a shit.

-snip-

If you don't care, why do you bother reading these threads AND commenting?

Because I enjoy pointing out how much I don't care.

That is incredibly sad. I have nothing to add to that.

 

[chikusho]

Beyond things like Oblivion giving females a strength drop and an endurance boost, I can't think of any.

That isn' sexist though, that's accurate. Physical tests between men and women have concluded that men are, as a general rule, faster and stronger at the start of, for example, a marathon, but women have longer endurance and are more resistant to pain at the end of the run.

 

[aguspal]

When it comes to sexism in games I just struggle to care at all. I can't be the only one who just doesn't give a shit.

-snip-

If you don't care, why do you bother reading these threads AND commenting?

Because I enjoy pointing out how much I don't care.

That is incredibly sad. I have nothing to add to that.

IMO its pretty funny Its the funnies post in this thread so far anyways-

 

[Mid Boss]

Dragon ball Z, case and point.

"ZOMGBBQWTF WHAT A SEXIST SHOW, THIS IS TEACHING MALES IT'S OKAY TO GET ANGRY AND BEAT PEOPLE!" *jokes*

OT: I prefer that we all just take a chill pill and stop looking too hard into if/if not someone was meaning to be hurtful/stereotypical on something.


however, if the game seems like it's sole purpose/constantly nagging at you with misogynistic/sexist themes, then yeah, i'd say you've got quite the point to raise.

DBZ was surprisingly non sexist... compared to most anime. It did have a single female fighter... for one season... AND she didn't roll over and cry at the first sign of danger. Hell I don't think she EVER cried and she even humiliated and beat the crap out of Vegeta. Now that I think about it, Android 18 is the most non-sexist stereotyped anime woman I can think of. They didn't even use her for fan service!

I suddenly have a lot more respect for DBZ.

There's a few things you're missing about why Android 18 is still perpetuating sexism.

First of all to be that strong and good as a fighter she had be effectively be a man with boobs, she wasn't womanly at all. Sexist.

Then there's the fact that, she is helpless against Cell relying on Men to fight him, while Krillin looks after her, and then Krillin again looks after her after she is forced out of the Perfect Cell Fusion... then after healing she falls in love with her brave protector, marries him and has his baby. Sexist.

In the Buu saga, she's still exceptionally strong, but is kept hidden on Kami's tower expected just to watch while all the men and their male offspring fight saving the women. Sexist.

For the record I think the 3 points I just wrote are complete and utter bullshit, but they do show that if you are looking for sexism you will find it. Sadly this is what some people do, they believe there is inequality and will create mountains out of molehills to prove it.

Cell had grown much stronger than she was even before he absorbed her brother. Everyone but Trunks and Vegeta were helpless against him. It never says how or why she fell in love with Krillin so that's just an assumption.

In the Buu saga all the warriors were more powerful than Cell who would have torn her apart easier than he did android 19. She was an android. She didn't gain in power. Which, I admit, was a cop out. Again, like I stated, she never breaks down into an emotional mess and it shows that she likes to dress well and is interested in guys (who her brother invariable kills). She's not Lightening from whichever Final Fantasy she was from.

If you want a "fake strong girl" as my girlfriend puts it watch Sword Art Online. Kitiro's sister is introduced as a strong female character but immediately after that becomes a bawling, emotional, bossy, useless mess whose only contribution is healing magic when she's not screaming and crying. When people don't want to hear about inequality they will belittle it and try to claim that, if it is there, it's meaningless and that people just WANT to see it. Well my friend, you don't want to see it.

When was the last time you saw a woman fight a leading male character, generic thugs don't count, in any media? Of those times, which ones did she actually hold her own and not go down in one punch? I'll make a list of the ones I know of.

Avatar The Last Air Bender
Buffy the Vampire Slayer
Firefly
Armitage the 3rd
DBZ
The Power Puff Girls
Family Guy
Underworld
Marvel and DC comics/cartoons
The Avengers
That one recent Die Hard movie. Can't remember which one.

..... That's about all I can come up with off the top of my head. Now compare that to all the action movies and shows where women are just there to be rescued, are support roles only, are helpless against a lead male character, or only fight other women. Then, TRY to keep a straight face while telling me that it's just in my imagination.

 

[BrotherRool]

The witcher. Practically codified sexually extorting women in gameplay terms

 

[Aaron Sylvester]

I love people who try to desperately make something SEEM sexist/mysoginist and then end up coming off as the most sexist/mysoginist person in the whole thread lol.

Actually the same could be said for a ton of feminist groups, groups which paradoxically end up demeaning women even further by making them look like helpless victims of everything, instead of lifting their image as strong individuals who can handle themselves lol.

The witcher. Practically codified sexually extorting women in gameplay terms

*sigh*

In Yahtzee's own words...

Some people might call The Witcher misogynistic, for the fact that every single woman in the game shows off a cleavage you could lose your dog in, and will jump on you at the slightest provocation, for a PG-13 sex scene, followed by a paradoxically explicit dirty postcard. Personally, I think it's less The Witcher's obvious hatred of women, and more the same misguided pretension to maturity that also causes the characters to cuss with every alternate word.

So yeah, you were saying?

 

[JudgeGame]

Dragon ball Z, case and point.

"ZOMGBBQWTF WHAT A SEXIST SHOW, THIS IS TEACHING MALES IT'S OKAY TO GET ANGRY AND BEAT PEOPLE!" *jokes*

OT: I prefer that we all just take a chill pill and stop looking too hard into if/if not someone was meaning to be hurtful/stereotypical on something.


however, if the game seems like it's sole purpose/constantly nagging at you with misogynistic/sexist themes, then yeah, i'd say you've got quite the point to raise.

DBZ was surprisingly non sexist... compared to most anime. It did have a single female fighter... for one season... AND she didn't roll over and cry at the first sign of danger. Hell I don't think she EVER cried and she even humiliated and beat the crap out of Vegeta. Now that I think about it, Android 18 is the most non-sexist stereotyped anime woman I can think of. They didn't even use her for fan service!

I suddenly have a lot more respect for DBZ.

There's a few things you're missing about why Android 18 is still perpetuating sexism.

First of all to be that strong and good as a fighter she had be effectively be a man with boobs, she wasn't womanly at all. Sexist.

Then there's the fact that, she is helpless against Cell relying on Men to fight him, while Krillin looks after her, and then Krillin again looks after her after she is forced out of the Perfect Cell Fusion... then after healing she falls in love with her brave protector, marries him and has his baby. Sexist.

In the Buu saga, she's still exceptionally strong, but is kept hidden on Kami's tower expected just to watch while all the men and their male offspring fight saving the women. Sexist.

For the record I think the 3 points I just wrote are complete and utter bullshit, but they do show that if you are looking for sexism you will find it. Sadly this is what some people do, they believe there is inequality and will create mountains out of molehills to prove it.

Did we watch the same show?

At which point did anybody ever protect C18? Hell, Vegeta bloody beat her up FOR Cell so he could fight Cell's ultimate form.

C18 and Krillin were hot for each other for a long time and it's a recurring joke that C18 is the one wearing the pants so what you said makes no sense.

C18 does fight Buu so I don't know what's going on there. Fucking Chi-Chi and Bulma fight Buu.

As a matter of fact, I think the only time in GT a human fights seriously is when C18 fights Super C17 to avenge Krillin. I don't think Uub counts as human.

 

[Aaron Sylvester]

Did we watch the same show?

At which point did anybody ever protect C18? Hell, Vegeta bloody beat her up FOR Cell so he could fight Cell's ultimate form.

C18 and Krillin were hot for each other for a long time and it's a recurring joke that C18 is the one wearing the pants so what you said makes no sense.

C18 does fight Buu so I don't know what's going on there. Fucking Chi-Chi and Bulma fight Buu.

As a matter of fact, I think the only time in GT a human fights seriously is when C18 fights Super C17 to avenge Krillin. I don't think Uub counts as human.

You completely missed the point of his entire post dude, did you read the last paragraph?? Here I'll quote it for you:

For the record I think the 3 points I just wrote are complete and utter bullshit, but they do show that if you are looking for sexism you will find it. Sadly this is what some people do, they believe there is inequality and will create mountains out of molehills to prove it.

This thread is a great example of someone digging for sexism/misogyny where it doesn't exist, someone looking to create an issue out of nothing and ironically making themselves the sexist/mysoginist

 

[Mid Boss]

Did we watch the same show?

At which point did anybody ever protect C18? Hell, Vegeta bloody beat her up FOR Cell so he could fight Cell's ultimate form.

C18 and Krillin were hot for each other for a long time and it's a recurring joke that C18 is the one wearing the pants so what you said makes no sense.

C18 does fight Buu so I don't know what's going on there. Fucking Chi-Chi and Bulma fight Buu.

As a matter of fact, I think the only time in GT a human fights seriously is when C18 fights Super C17 to avenge Krillin. I don't think Uub counts as human.

You completely missed the point of his entire post dude, did you read the last paragraph?? Here I'll quote it for you:

For the record I think the 3 points I just wrote are complete and utter bullshit, but they do show that if you are looking for sexism you will find it. Sadly this is what some people do, they believe there is inequality and will create mountains out of molehills to prove it.

This thread is a great example of someone digging for sexism/misogyny where it doesn't exist, someone looking to create an issue out of nothing and ironically making themselves the sexist/mysoginist

If they're complete and utter bullshit then why did he say them? You know, other than to use "What I said was BS" as a cop out when someone calls him on it being... BS. Which... looks like has already happened. That was fast.

So, either he doesn't actually remember the show that well and said that to cover his own ass. Or he's just making up crap to try and justify his point and said that there's a defense when someone calls him on it.

Which is it?

 

[Aaron Sylvester]

If they're complete and utter bullshit then why did he say them? You know, other than to use "What I said was BS" as a cop out when someone calls him on it being... BS. Which... looks like has already happened. That was fast.

What he said has nothing to do with Dragonball Z. He was trying to prove a point, a point which completely flew over your head since you keep clinging to whether he got his facts 100% right or not. It doesn't matter. This thread is an example of people digging for an issue that isn't there.

 

[Mid Boss]

If they're complete and utter bullshit then why did he say them? You know, other than to use "What I said was BS" as a cop out when someone calls him on it being... BS. Which... looks like has already happened. That was fast.

What he said has nothing to do with Dragonball Z. He was trying to prove a point, a point which completely flew over your head since you keep clinging to whether he got his facts 100% right or not. It doesn't matter. This thread is an example of people digging for an issue that isn't there.

Well! I didn't know we just make up crap to prove whatever point we wanted. Here I was crippling myself by sticking to what actually happened in the show! Silly silly me.

In Buffy The Vampire Slayer there was rampant sexism. She was supposedly the lead character but just ran around crying whenever there was danger or tried to seduce the villains. The most sexist thing I'd ever seen. She always had to be saved by whatever guy was closest at hand!

By the way, all three points I just said are utter crap so you can't call me on making shit up to prove my point. Worked for MagunBFP unless the rules are different when you don't agree with what the person is saying. In which case seems this whole thing is rather rigged against me.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

Beyond things like Oblivion giving females a strength drop and an endurance boost, I can't think of any.

That isn' sexist though, that's accurate. Physical tests between men and women have concluded that men are, as a general rule, faster and stronger at the start of, for example, a marathon, but women have longer endurance and are more resistant to pain at the end of the run.

And how is that even remotely relevant in a game where gates to hell open, there are bipedal, sentient cat-people and lizard-people and magic is an every day occurance? It is even less relevant since the protagonist of Oblivion obviously is a very special person, able to master in weeks what it takes most other people in the setting decades to master (especially when it comes to magic). As the final nail in the coffin of your argument, it isn't the cap that is maxed, it is the starting attribute, meaning that in the end a female character can be just as strong as a man.

I wouldn't exactly call it overt sexism on the part of Bethesda, but it definitely falls in the category of unintended sexism because something wasn't thought through enough. On the other hand, it is such a minor thing that I honestly think it doesn't matter much when put in context with how other games portray women.

 

[The Unworthy Gentleman]

When it comes to sexism in games I just struggle to care at all. I can't be the only one who just doesn't give a shit.

No, you have me backing you and most of /v/ too. Trouble is that while I don't really care all that much about sexism in games, mostly because it's, by and large, white knights and obsessively offended women calling out the smallest things, it still gets my goat to see it going on.