Sexism in gaming, do we really give a f**k?

[omega 616]

I would comment on all of this but to be honest, I'm really tired of forums (not just this one) ability to take the fun out of gaming.

Its not the people defending games that are taking the fun out of gaming, its the people who have come along & have announced, "how dare you have fun in a way i personally don't like... Your fun is wrong, now stop having this wrong fun & listen while i spend the next 6 pages telling you why your fun is wrong & needs to stop right now... Because i say so. Yes i suppose i could go find a game thats fun, but i'd rather make you miserable by taking away the toys you are enjoying playing with."

No, it's gaming forums in general. Every person on every gaming forum is arguing, discussing, analyzing every little thing about gaming and every second you spend doing that is a second you aren't actually playing games.

So instead of doing that, I am going to play them. You might have fun discusing gaming, I sometimes do but this is fucking stupid ... so instead of getting getting frustrated or angry, I am just going to do what games are made for to be played and not analyzed.

 

[Jenvas1306]

Point is, that i like to see others show that they dont like oversexualisation, that game devs should not plunge it in to hope to increase sales at the expense of actually developing a character.

Except the industry is not doing that. Again this is a prime example of someone liooking to find problems with something, because they already hold the belief that the problem is already there & if they have to create a problem to prove there point, they will actually sabotage there own best interests to do it.

And as you stated in your post to omega616, you dont want to have better toys, better stick to those sub-par ones that did not have the chance to get enchanced by new view points.
As if anyone is actually going to take games from the market. If a game cant be sold without oversexualization, is it worth playing? is jiggle physics thats initial to you enjoying games? I doubt that.
So why do you have such a hard time accepting that others have a problem with something that you dont have a problem with?
Maybe they see problems where you dont see them and dont just make them up?

At this point I still give a fuck, but I am running out of fucks to give about discussing this.

 

[Pink Gregory]

Well, it'd be nice if the practice of excluding or intending to exclude an entire gender directly or indirectly from games would peter out sometime soon.

 

[Quadocky]

6 pages of straight guys claiming to be ambivalent about sexism? Bunch of liars. If you didn't give a f**k you wouldn't have bothered to post.

Personally I do give a f**k. I happen to like having women around and the misogynistic attitudes about women in the gaming community, especially among the pre-pubescent fps crew, just plain pisses me off. We need to grow the f**k up. The vast majority of us are way too old to continue to indulge this ridiculous "girls are yucky" rut.

Erm we are talking about the portrayal of fictional female characters in video games. Is it really a big an issue as its being made out to be.

See the thing is, expressed outrage over awful character designs and representation does not equate to some sort of making it a 'big issue'. Awful character designs and lack of representation IS already an issue. It has been since forever. The only reason why its so relevant now is because everybody is starting to wake up to the fact that 'Women play video games just like men do!' And that social justice topics in related to tech fields started a wildfire of dialog given the obvious crappiness that keeps going on. (or rather made more obvious due to the internet)

Its an issue because 1. many games still assume only men are playing. 2. The Power Fantasy actually does still get confused for the sex fantasy. However in the context of video games both are always intended for men as players or audience. 3. Vile Nerds, who justify awfulness with shitty arguments. 4. Lack of empathy. 5. Its an ISSUE into itself, it has no size, it already exists, already established. Its both big and small, huge and miniscule.

I have recently become very disenchanted with many gamers as they seem to form a much too large hoard of awfulness that doesn't seem to understand that games can be inclusive and not sexist. But right now what we got is what seems like a media that keeps putting cheesecake into its work while ignoring that half the population in the world is allergic to it, in a manner of speaking.

EDIT: rather, as a hobby, gamers seem to express a sort of innate sexism that is not seen in other hobbies. I am sure it does exist in other ones to varying degrees, but from what I have seen with gaming, the boys club mentality lives on.

 

[Jenvas1306]

And as you stated in your post to omega616, you dont want to have better toys, better stick to those sub-par ones that did not have the chance to get enchanced by new view points.

Except your dislike does not render them sub par in any way: As has already been pointed out, your opinion does not make a fact. A game not to your preferences is not subpar, its just not a game you are interested in. Personally i'm not interested in playing League of Legends, or Grand Theft Auto, or any number of games. My disinterest does not then render the game subpar.

An the games in question already have a whole plethora of view points & yet this game is the game they still decided to go ahead and make... Because your disinterest in the hypothetical game does not make the game lacking in view points; sp again i point out that your opinion does not make a fact

game devs dont live on a distant planet with a one way comunication. they are affected by the comunity, there was a reaction to the reaction to mass effects ending. If you show that people are interessted in different attempts at female characters, then such games might have a chance to be made and published.
That is the point, show that there are people who would like it different.
A bad written character that is only there for looks is still a bad written character, if you find it alright or not doesnt matter, cause its only your opinion and not a fact.
I am interrssted in league of legends, cause its a good game, but looking at some of the art... its sexualized into sillyness. No I am not that binary that I can only hate or love something, I can like something and still criticise it (in LoLs case there is more than just the art...). Some things actually depend on opinions and expressing them as an idividual is like voting, you put your view to the whole. That can move something as League of legends developer riotgames is trying to go new ways with champions, even reworking old ones.
So I express my opinion in the hope that future games will be more suitable to me, as it will happen if my view goes along with that of enough other people who also cared to open their mouth.
Whining works, ask jim sterling.

 

[Ashadowpie]

slapping some huge muscles and enormous boobs on characters is childish, if game designers could stop with the overreacted body parts we wouldnt have physical sexisim anymore.

then it goes to girls being " girls" a weak gender who cry, cant fight, are motherly, only talk to other girls, cant be a leader and like to flaunt their sexuality.

all which are ridiculously untrue in real life.

if only people would just grow up.

 

[Guitarmasterx7]

Certain people think we have to make videogames a no boob zone so that girls can enjoy them. I would like to request that these people remove the sticks from their asses. I didn't tear metal gear solid out of my console in disgust because of snake's bootylicious getup or whatever the hell's going on with raiden and vamp. As long as every woman in the game doesn't just exist for the reason of BOOBS, a few sexy women in a game really should not be a big deal. Sexy women are a real life phenomenon, and should not be banned from depiction.

Games like Boobies or Alive Extreme ***** Volleyboob can be somewhat alienating, but that game isn't FOR women. And that's fine. I don't have anything wrong with certain things pandering to certain demographics. But if people that aren't in that demographic aren't interested in it, that's a totally rational and understandable repercussion.

Also, people need to understand that sexual undertones are an essential part of schlock. Hitman's kung fu dominatrix nuns are a perfect example. It's fucking absurd. That's the point. If it were a gang of chippendales dancers dressed as priests that try to stab agent 47 with knives shaped like vibrators I wouldn't be offended, I'd think it was funny.

 

[Jenvas1306]

Secondly, what you are actually talking about is dumbing down an entire medium, for the benefit of a bunch of vicious gender stereotypes... I can see it now

"Okay development team, what ideas have you come up with for new games for this year"
"Nothing sir"
"What do you mean nothing"
"Oh well we were going to put out a new WWE game like we do every year, but it turns out that stereotypical girls & women don't like WWE wrestling, so we couldn't make it."
"Well what about our new FPS, can we move the time scale up?"
"oh, we had to cancel that game too... R&D discovered that even if you paint everything pink & make them shoot hugs & kissess, the stereotypical girl doesn't like FPS"
"Okay, well what about that cute little fashionita mobile phone game, there's no possible way the female audience couldn't like that"
"No, but the stereotypical male audience didn't like it, so that was scrapped too"

I mean what about the girls who like FPS & WWE wrestling?

This is what we were talking about before: Freedom of choice. Its also the freedom not to choose to purchase a game.

was that addressed at me? if it is then you didnt get my point and really need to get some more numbers than 1 and 0 into your system.
That type of panik is really over the top, stop being so scared.
its about showing dev teams what else they could do and still sell and what they might want to consider to do or not to do to open their games to more people. It is not opression its showing up opportunities.

 

[WouldYouKindly]

6 pages of straight guys claiming to be ambivalent about sexism? Bunch of liars. If you didn't give a f**k you wouldn't have bothered to post.

Personally I do give a f**k. I happen to like having women around and the misogynistic attitudes about women in the gaming community, especially among the pre-pubescent fps crew, just plain pisses me off. We need to grow the f**k up. The vast majority of us are way too old to continue to indulge this ridiculous "girls are yucky" rut.

First, I'd like to second this. Back when I played a lot of FPS shooters, I felt terrible for any girl that made it known that she was a girl. Anonymity+immaturity+having a negative view of women=biggest shithead award. I treated them with the same respect I treated any other player, that is, not much, but I wasn't hounding them for nude pics like a fucking freak.

Yeah, I still care. When it's hard for developers to get a female main character in the first place(see The Creeping Cull of Female Characters Jimquisition) something should be done. When that character also has her actions, and thus her characterization, limited because publishers are afraid of offending an insecure male gamer, something should be done.

 

[Sehnsucht Engel]

The grammar of the OP is making my eyes bleed.

I think gamers, and people on here, are kind of misogynistic in general. I like that there's female characters who are kind of over the top, and I'm still amazed by those who are uncomfortable with playing a female main character. It's pretty damn gay to want to play these male burly characters, but refuse to play a female, because it makes you uncomfortable.

I didn't find the nuns' trailer offensive. I enjoyed it, as I love both Hitman and hot women. No, I don't particularly care, as I doubt it will change any time soon.

 

[Jenvas1306]

was that addressed at me?

Not unless you've suddenly changed your name to Pink Gregory

if it is then you didnt get my point and really need to get some more numbers than 1 and 0 into your system. Its about showing dev teams what else they could do and still sell and what they might want to consider to do or not to do to open their games to more people. It is not opression its showing up opportunities.

/facepalm. No it doesn't. What it does is pretends that the interests of both genders are exactly the same & then dismissess anything that is not in the overlap.

Thats the exact opposite of showing up opportunities. As it is we have a market in which games are made for all sorts of different interests & preferences. Applying the idea of homogenaity, would kill that market.

I took your post as a response to mine cause it fitted, while it doesnt really fit to Pink Gregorys short text.

Not everyone likes bioshock, not everyone plays CoD, lots of games sell even they cant be sold to every single person available, it just need to be enough. So we get games that fit for all sorts of interrests and tastes, not just tiltes that are super streamlined to be liked by 90% of gamers.
Again its not all or nothing.

 

[Jenvas1306]

Yeah, I still care. When it's hard for developers to get a female main character in the first place(see The Creeping Cull of Female Characters Jimquisition) something should be done.

Except that at the moment the market has been so poisoned by the toxicity of the gamer press & what i'm going to characterise here as the "cry wolf feminist" that its impossible to green light any product with a female protagonist at this point in time.

As i pointed out earlier we are currently living with a situation where Mutually Assured Destruction has taken place. In an attempt to prove the gaming industry is sexist for not better treating female protagonists, we've had a long period in which the gaming press & cry wolf feminist have sat behind there monitors waiting to pounce on any studio that dares to release any product with as much as a single female character in it. An when they do, they trip all over themselves to see who can scream the loudest "GAMES ARE SEXIST, GAME DEVELOPERS ARE SEXIST!" As they rip the as of yet unreleased product to shreads... Take the Lara Croft Rape thing for example... A whole heap of people screaming about how Lara was going to be raped & then it turned out not to exist at all in the game... They had read something into it that just wasn't there.

In trying to prove that all gaming companies are sexist, these people have actually made it impossible to get they thing they've declared wanting. They've sacrficed the very thing they wanted on an alter of sexism, killing the thing in the process... Atleast for the foreseeable future.
Mutually assured destruction, its already happened, its still happening.

How involved in the industry are you? When did the new tombraider get canceled? did I just dream it was released and proved to be a step in the right direction?

 

[Gali]

I'm sort of in between the tables concerning sexism in games. I don't want to play games that represent my gender in such a sexualized way that it gets ridiculous (e.g. DoA, Soul Calibour, no not Dragons Crown - I understand the art style as satire). That doesn't mean such games should be banned or never get made. I don't want any censorship.
I want good characters in my games. I don't care wether they are female or male. Tbh, I think most games would not change much when you swap genders.
Furthermore, gender/sexuality in mainstream games is mostly utilized very clumsy. There are too many femme fatales or "strong, straight men who rescue the princess" (not sure how to call it^^) and the like. I don't want to abolish them. I do love me some Bayonetta or Catwoman to play. Even a Marcus Fenix from time to time. Devs also do not necessarily make a big deal of the gender/sexuality of a character, but those aspects can tell new stories. I would like to play a game from the perspective of a mother or father. Or a gay person.

Point is, I think we should not complain that much about the games that are being made, more about the ones that are NOT being made. Sexism is not the real deal, more the lack of diversity - at least to me.

About sexism in the community and the industry, well that's a whole other thing.