Sexism; Or The Turning of Tables

[b3nn3tt]

Spoiler: The male privelege checklist

1.My odds of being hired for a job, when competing against female applicants, are probably skewed in my favor. The more prestigious the job, the larger the odds are skewed.

2. I can be confident that my co-workers won?t think I got my job because of my sex ? even though that might be true.

3. If I am never promoted, it?s not because of my sex.

4. If I fail in my job or career, I can feel sure this won?t be seen as a black mark against my entire sex?s capabilities.

5. I am far less likely to face sexual harassment at work than my female co-workers are. .

6. If I do the same task as a woman, and if the measurement is at all subjective, chances are people will think I did a better job.

7. If I?m a teen or adult, and if I can stay out of prison, my odds of being raped are relatively low.

8. On average, I am taught to fear walking alone after dark in average public spaces much less than my female counterparts are.

9. If I choose not to have children, my masculinity will not be called into question.

10. If I have children but do not provide primary care for them, my masculinity will not be called into question.

11. If I have children and provide primary care for them, I?ll be praised for extraordinary parenting if I?m even marginally competent.

12. If I have children and a career, no one will think I?m selfish for not staying at home.

13. If I seek political office, my relationship with my children, or who I hire to take care of them, will probably not be scrutinized by the press.

14. My elected representatives are mostly people of my own sex. The more prestigious and powerful the elected position, the more this is true.

15. When I ask to see ?the person in charge,? odds are I will face a person of my own sex. The higher-up in the organization the person is, the surer I can be.

16. As a child, chances are I was encouraged to be more active and outgoing than my sisters.

17. As a child, I could choose from an almost infinite variety of children?s media featuring positive, active, non-stereotyped heroes of my own sex. I never had to look for it; male protagonists are the default.

18. As a child, chances are I got more teacher attention than girls who raised their hands just as often.

19. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether or not it has sexist overtones.

20. I can turn on the television or glance at the front page of the newspaper and see people of my own sex widely represented.

21. If I?m careless with my financial affairs it won?t be attributed to my sex.

22. If I?m careless with my driving it won?t be attributed to my sex.

23. I can speak in public to a large group without putting my sex on trial.

24. Even if I sleep with a lot of women, there is no chance that I will be seriously labeled a ?slut,? nor is there any male counterpart to ?slut-bashing.?

25. I do not have to worry about the message my wardrobe sends about my sexual availability.

26. My clothing is typically less expensive and better-constructed than women?s clothing for the same social status. While I have fewer options, my clothes will probably fit better than a woman?s without tailoring.

27. The grooming regimen expected of me is relatively cheap and consumes little time.
28. If I buy a new car, chances are I?ll be offered a better price than a woman buying the same car.

29. If I?m not conventionally attractive, the disadvantages are relatively small and easy to ignore.

30. I can be loud with no fear of being called a shrew. I can be aggressive with no fear of being called a *****.

31. I can ask for legal protection from violence that happens mostly to men without being seen as a selfish special interest, since that kind of violence is called ?crime? and is a general social concern. (Violence that happens mostly to women is usually called ?domestic violence? or ?acquaintance rape,? and is seen as a special interest issue.)

32. I can be confident that the ordinary language of day-to-day existence will always include my sex. ?All men are created equal,? mailman, chairman, freshman, he.

33. My ability to make important decisions and my capability in general will never be questioned depending on what time of the month it is.

34. I will never be expected to change my name upon marriage or questioned if I don?t change my name.

35. The decision to hire me will not be based on assumptions about whether or not I might choose to have a family sometime soon.

36. Every major religion in the world is led primarily by people of my own sex. Even God, in most major religions, is pictured as male.

37. Most major religions argue that I should be the head of my household, while my wife and children should be subservient to me.

38. If I have a wife or live-in girlfriend, chances are we?ll divide up household chores so that she does most of the labor, and in particular the most repetitive and unrewarding tasks.

39. If I have children with my girlfriend or wife, I can expect her to do most of the basic childcare such as changing diapers and feeding.

40. If I have children with my wife or girlfriend, and it turns out that one of us needs to make career sacrifices to raise the kids, chances are we?ll both assume the career sacrificed should be hers.

41. Assuming I am heterosexual, magazines, billboards, television, movies, pornography, and virtually all of media is filled with images of scantily-clad women intended to appeal to me sexually. Such images of men exist, but are rarer.

42. In general, I am under much less pressure to be thin than my female counterparts are. . If I am fat, I probably suffer fewer social and economic consequences for being fat than fat women do.

43. If I am heterosexual, it?s incredibly unlikely that I?ll ever be beaten up by a spouse or lover.
44. Complete strangers generally do not walk up to me on the street and tell me to ?smile.?

45. Sexual harassment on the street virtually never happens to me. I do not need to plot my movements through public space in order to avoid being sexually harassed, or to mitigate sexual harassment.

45. On average, I am not interrupted by women as often as women are interrupted by men.

46. I have the privilege of being unaware of my male privilege.

taken from: http://www.amptoons.com/blog/the-male-privilege-checklist/

You guys really don't understand how much better you have it.

While I'll concede that there are some valid points there, many of them are not exactly universal truths. The ones relating to jobs are largely situational. For example, number 3: If I never get promoted at my job it won't be because of my sex. It may well be, what if a man's boss is a woman who only promotes other women? Also, it implies that if a women isn't promoted, it'll be because she's a women, when it could just as easily be because she isn't very good at her job.

Several of the points also seem a bit nit-picky (the language one), and others are just wrong (unlikely to be beaten up by partner).

But the ones that I really wanted to take issue with are 35. and 40. (The decision to hire me will not be based on assumptions about whether or not I might choose to have a family sometime soon, and If I have children with my wife or girlfriend, and it turns out that one of us needs to make career sacrifices to raise the kids, chances are we?ll both assume the career sacrificed should be hers, respectively). If you were running a business, would you rather hire someone who could potentially take a year off work and be paid for it, or someone who could have two weeks off and be paid for it? Similarly, the reason why it is often the woman who has to give up her career is because it is financially very difficult for the man to give up work to raise a child. In the UK women get a year of paid maternity leave, whereas men get two weeks. If the women wants to go back to work before that year is up, the man will have to give up his job and the only income will be from the woman's job, rather than the man's job and the woman's maternity pay combined. So to be able to afford this the woman has to effectively be earning two people's incomes.

Now, to my mind the best way to change this would be to adopt a similar system to the one in Sweden, where new parents get a year of parental leave which they can split between them. This gives couples the choice of who can be the stay at home parent.

EDIT: I realise that I just sound contrary, but I'm really not trying to make out that women don't have problems. But I think it's important that men and women stop trying to one-up each other over who has it worse. I don't think things until people take off their sexism hats and focus on how problems affect people.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

Atleast in this regard, it's best to be a women.

What number 42 mean is that it is okay to be fat as a guy while a women will suffer consequences socially and economically for not being a perfect 10.

It has nothing to do with maintenance.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

Please enlighten me as to what genuine benefits men have in society now?

Well in comparison to 'we get made fun of in adverts'

Spoiler: The male privelege checklist

1.My odds of being hired for a job, when competing against female applicants, are probably skewed in my favor. The more prestigious the job, the larger the odds are skewed.

2. I can be confident that my co-workers won?t think I got my job because of my sex ? even though that might be true.

3. If I am never promoted, it?s not because of my sex.

4. If I fail in my job or career, I can feel sure this won?t be seen as a black mark against my entire sex?s capabilities.

5. I am far less likely to face sexual harassment at work than my female co-workers are. .

6. If I do the same task as a woman, and if the measurement is at all subjective, chances are people will think I did a better job.

7. If I?m a teen or adult, and if I can stay out of prison, my odds of being raped are relatively low.

8. On average, I am taught to fear walking alone after dark in average public spaces much less than my female counterparts are.

9. If I choose not to have children, my masculinity will not be called into question.

10. If I have children but do not provide primary care for them, my masculinity will not be called into question.

11. If I have children and provide primary care for them, I?ll be praised for extraordinary parenting if I?m even marginally competent.

12. If I have children and a career, no one will think I?m selfish for not staying at home.

13. If I seek political office, my relationship with my children, or who I hire to take care of them, will probably not be scrutinized by the press.

14. My elected representatives are mostly people of my own sex. The more prestigious and powerful the elected position, the more this is true.

15. When I ask to see ?the person in charge,? odds are I will face a person of my own sex. The higher-up in the organization the person is, the surer I can be.

16. As a child, chances are I was encouraged to be more active and outgoing than my sisters.

17. As a child, I could choose from an almost infinite variety of children?s media featuring positive, active, non-stereotyped heroes of my own sex. I never had to look for it; male protagonists are the default.

18. As a child, chances are I got more teacher attention than girls who raised their hands just as often.

19. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether or not it has sexist overtones.

20. I can turn on the television or glance at the front page of the newspaper and see people of my own sex widely represented.

21. If I?m careless with my financial affairs it won?t be attributed to my sex.

22. If I?m careless with my driving it won?t be attributed to my sex.

23. I can speak in public to a large group without putting my sex on trial.

24. Even if I sleep with a lot of women, there is no chance that I will be seriously labeled a ?slut,? nor is there any male counterpart to ?slut-bashing.?

25. I do not have to worry about the message my wardrobe sends about my sexual availability.

26. My clothing is typically less expensive and better-constructed than women?s clothing for the same social status. While I have fewer options, my clothes will probably fit better than a woman?s without tailoring.

27. The grooming regimen expected of me is relatively cheap and consumes little time.
28. If I buy a new car, chances are I?ll be offered a better price than a woman buying the same car.

29. If I?m not conventionally attractive, the disadvantages are relatively small and easy to ignore.

30. I can be loud with no fear of being called a shrew. I can be aggressive with no fear of being called a *****.

31. I can ask for legal protection from violence that happens mostly to men without being seen as a selfish special interest, since that kind of violence is called ?crime? and is a general social concern. (Violence that happens mostly to women is usually called ?domestic violence? or ?acquaintance rape,? and is seen as a special interest issue.)

32. I can be confident that the ordinary language of day-to-day existence will always include my sex. ?All men are created equal,? mailman, chairman, freshman, he.

33. My ability to make important decisions and my capability in general will never be questioned depending on what time of the month it is.

34. I will never be expected to change my name upon marriage or questioned if I don?t change my name.

35. The decision to hire me will not be based on assumptions about whether or not I might choose to have a family sometime soon.

36. Every major religion in the world is led primarily by people of my own sex. Even God, in most major religions, is pictured as male.

37. Most major religions argue that I should be the head of my household, while my wife and children should be subservient to me.

38. If I have a wife or live-in girlfriend, chances are we?ll divide up household chores so that she does most of the labor, and in particular the most repetitive and unrewarding tasks.

39. If I have children with my girlfriend or wife, I can expect her to do most of the basic childcare such as changing diapers and feeding.

40. If I have children with my wife or girlfriend, and it turns out that one of us needs to make career sacrifices to raise the kids, chances are we?ll both assume the career sacrificed should be hers.

41. Assuming I am heterosexual, magazines, billboards, television, movies, pornography, and virtually all of media is filled with images of scantily-clad women intended to appeal to me sexually. Such images of men exist, but are rarer.

42. In general, I am under much less pressure to be thin than my female counterparts are. . If I am fat, I probably suffer fewer social and economic consequences for being fat than fat women do.

43. If I am heterosexual, it?s incredibly unlikely that I?ll ever be beaten up by a spouse or lover.
44. Complete strangers generally do not walk up to me on the street and tell me to ?smile.?

45. Sexual harassment on the street virtually never happens to me. I do not need to plot my movements through public space in order to avoid being sexually harassed, or to mitigate sexual harassment.

45. On average, I am not interrupted by women as often as women are interrupted by men.

46. I have the privilege of being unaware of my male privilege.

taken from: http://www.amptoons.com/blog/the-male-privilege-checklist/

You guys really don't understand how much better you have it.

some of those are completely situational, but true if you just passively allow it, while most of those are complete and total horseshit nit picks, and i do take offense to that saying that "waaaahhh, you have it so much easier day to day!" that is fucking horseshit beyond belief, 18-23 are old wives tales comparatively now a days, 38-40 are also horeshit old news, i don't have tits so i can't feed the fucking child unless you decide to pre milk first hand, and 40 is we don't have the fucking child pop out from our parts, so we aren't given even 1/4th the amount of time you are for "maternity leave", i would happily stay home if my wife really wanted to get back to work and wanted me to be stay at home for the mandated period.

and 42 is self pity, i have plenty of fat friends (more females than males surprisingly) and they don't wallow around saying "woe is me, men don't have to worry about weight!" when that is utter bullshit.

some of those numbers on the list are based on old old old female jokes, where if you honestly take it seriously then you have problems, such as the female "drivers/money/speaking" points listed.

 

[Sunrider]

Atleast in this regard, it's best to be a women.

What number 42 mean is that it is okay to be fat as a guy while a women will suffer consequences socially and economically for not being a perfect 10.

It has nothing to do with maintenance.

I'm sorry, but this is utter bullshit. I have overweight AND thin friends of both sexes, and I am an overweight male. Neither of us is treated any differently. While I don't know exactly what it's like to be an overweight woman (How would I know?), I know that I get called out on it far more than any overweight woman I've talked to. People joke about it with guys more, and we're supposed to suck it up and pretend that it doesn't bother us. I have never seen that happen with an overweight woman among the people I have met.
I won't say it's worse to be male on this point, but if you think it's easier, you are sorely mistaken.

I think your list has some fair points, but I think it's pretty damn outdated on some as well. I won't put the effort in to address every point on it, but I think some of them are correct, and some are just stereotypes.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip

If you really believe none of these things are true then you are really fooling yourself. A study in Time magazine showed that women in the US get paid on average 37% less than men for example. I think the difference is less apparent in the UK.

And btw there is formula you can give to a child rather than breastfeeding... :|

I have met men who still believe that men are better drivers and will argue it to the point of enraging. I even had a woman on a forum rage at me that I just couldn't accept men were better drivers...

They may be jokes some of the time but if you hear them 24/7 they get demoralising and tiring. I can't tell you how many time I have heard the sandwich joke this past year.

I am getting kind of sick of it.

 

[intheweeds]

These threads are so super.
Prepare for most people here to agree with you.

I understand your pain, I hate it when previously oppressed people get a few double standards in their favour too. What'll they want next, equal rights? Pfft...

Look, I'll tell you the same thing I told my boyfriend, if you want the male-only gyms, chubby male models and to be able to poke fun at women in ads then grand, not a bother. I'll gladly take all the other benefits you have in society that are actually important and trade.

Seriously, the fact that these are the only things you can think of it's clear that you've never actually been discriminated against in a serious manner.


EDIT: I'm not saying other men haven't been, because I know people will jump on that, I'm just saying what you pointed out is really trivial.

This is what i was going to say, only worded better. Most people will agree because 'most people' on the Escapist are male. I would hazard a guess that a very large portion of those is under the age of 22, and do not have enough life experience to speak about women in the workforce or anywhere else with any sense of accuracy.

Women still have it bad in many areas. For me, I am(was) a chef for 13 years. I have had many experiences with women hating in the kitchen. Most recently I had been working with a young male cook, trying to show him how to do a certain dish but he refused to listen to me. Later on in the day he freaks out on me. His exact words were : "I shouldn't have to work with a ***** on her period. Women do not belong in the kitchen". I would like to point out that this was in a major metropolitan city and the year was 2010. Buddy obviously got very fired by me very fast.


Which is hilarious because I though women only belonged in the kitchen? I guess it becomes a man's job when there is money is to be made.

The point is this doesn't happen to men. Sexist(against women) is still a very big thing for a lot of women in a lot of careers. I haven't even touched on other areas.

 

[zehydra]

These threads are so super.
Prepare for most people here to agree with you.

I understand your pain, I hate it when previously oppressed people get a few double standards in their favour too. What'll they want next, equal rights? Pfft...

Look, I'll tell you the same thing I told my boyfriend, if you want the male-only gyms, chubby male models and to be able to poke fun at women in ads then grand, not a bother. I'll gladly take all the other benefits you have in society that are actually important and trade.

Seriously, the fact that these are the only things you can think of it's clear that you've never actually been discriminated against in a serious manner.


EDIT: I'm not saying other men haven't been, because I know people will jump on that, I'm just saying what you pointed out is really trivial.

agreed, but OP is mostly reacting to Feminist reactions to trivial things as well.

The scope of Feminism has broadened somewhat, and has reached the point of trying to reach some kind of "social equality" which is absolutely impossible.

Although to be honest, I can't think of many non-trivial benefits that I have that you don't. (I'm male)

 

[oktalist]

Sexism is not against any one particular sex. Sexism is against all humankind. Sexism against men is not the fault of women, and sexism against women is not the fault of men. Stop blaming everything on gender, including blaming sexism on gender.

It's not a zero-sum game. There is prejudice against men yes, but the amount of prejudice against women is still worse, this is undeniable.

White males have the easiest time of anyone. If you deny this, then I... I don't even... you must not get out much.

 

[zehydra]

These threads are so super.
Prepare for most people here to agree with you.

I understand your pain, I hate it when previously oppressed people get a few double standards in their favour too. What'll they want next, equal rights? Pfft...

Look, I'll tell you the same thing I told my boyfriend, if you want the male-only gyms, chubby male models and to be able to poke fun at women in ads then grand, not a bother. I'll gladly take all the other benefits you have in society that are actually important and trade.

Seriously, the fact that these are the only things you can think of it's clear that you've never actually been discriminated against in a serious manner.


EDIT: I'm not saying other men haven't been, because I know people will jump on that, I'm just saying what you pointed out is really trivial.

This is what i was going to say, only worded better. Most people will agree because 'most people' on the Escapist are male. I would hazard a guess that a very large portion of those is under the age of 22, and do not have enough life experience to speak about women in the workforce or anywhere else with any sense of accuracy.

Women still have it bad in many areas. For me, I am(was) a chef for 13 years. I have had many experiences with women hating in the kitchen. Most recently I had been working with a young male cook, trying to show him how to do a certain dish but he refused to listen to me. Later on in the day he freaks out on me. His exact words were : "I shouldn't have to work with a ***** on her period. Women do not belong in the kitchen". I would like to point out that this was in a major metropolitan city and the year was 2010. Buddy obviously got very fired by me very fast.


Which is hilarious because I though women only belonged in the kitchen? I guess it becomes a man's job when there is money is to be made.

The point is this doesn't happen to men. Sexist(against women) is still a very big thing for a lot of women in a lot of careers. I haven't even touched on other areas.

It's funny, because I can imagine the scenario in my head, but I don't anybody who would be like that. Then again, I also don't know that many male cooks, so I dunno.

There's sort of this conception in culinary stuff that I'm aware of though, that Men are better cooks if trained. I'm not saying it's right, I've just heard that some people think that.

Gender is irrelevant in the ability to do your job, although it may affect what skills you develop as a child (due to gender roles and such)

 

[intheweeds]

These threads are so super.
Prepare for most people here to agree with you.

I understand your pain, I hate it when previously oppressed people get a few double standards in their favour too. What'll they want next, equal rights? Pfft...

Look, I'll tell you the same thing I told my boyfriend, if you want the male-only gyms, chubby male models and to be able to poke fun at women in ads then grand, not a bother. I'll gladly take all the other benefits you have in society that are actually important and trade.

Seriously, the fact that these are the only things you can think of it's clear that you've never actually been discriminated against in a serious manner.


EDIT: I'm not saying other men haven't been, because I know people will jump on that, I'm just saying what you pointed out is really trivial.

agreed, but OP is mostly reacting to Feminist reactions to trivial things as well.

The scope of Feminism has broadened somewhat, and has reached the point of trying to reach some kind of "social equality" which is absolutely impossible.

Although to be honest, I can't think of many non-trivial benefits that I have that you don't. (I'm male)

Read my post just above yours. This happens to me constantly. Every kitchen i go to there is one guy who either overtly says he won't won't work with a woman or inexplicably cannot hear anything i say. Of the ones i get along with fine, I have had a few tell me they "usually don't like working with women, but i work like a guy", whatever that means. I take my shit seriously and work hard. I didn't realize that was a gender thing.

Hell in order to become a chef, I didn't get promoted into a nice sous job and learn. I realized i had enough experience and fudged my resume so a new employer would hire me in management off the bat. There is no way in hell I would find a male chef who would choose me over his flock of young boys. Ever.

With all due respect, you don't have to deal with that every day at work just to make a buck. That is a non-trivial benefit in my book.

 

[Thaluikhain]

I agree, men, just like white people or heterosexuals, are treated really unfairly nowdays.

Just because they dominate the social, political, legal and economic systems is no reason why they shouldn't be able to complain about how oppressed they are.

Now, I know there are plenty of men, just like white people or heterosexuals, who have legitimately been fucked over, and that anyone who hasn't but likes pretending who has isn't going to listen to me anyway, but take a look at the politicians, judges, military and leaders of industry in you nation. It's not all due to some bizarre coincidence that they always tend to mostly be men.

I would hazard a guess that a very large portion of those is under the age of 22, and do not have enough life experience to speak about women in the workforce or anywhere else with any sense of accuracy.

True, but unimportant. If it was just the men under 22 that were sexist, the world would be a much better place.

 

[Sparrow]

These threads are so super.
Prepare for most people here to agree with you.

I understand your pain, I hate it when previously oppressed people get a few double standards in their favour too. What'll they want next, equal rights? Pfft...

Look, I'll tell you the same thing I told my boyfriend, if you want the male-only gyms, chubby male models and to be able to poke fun at women in ads then grand, not a bother. I'll gladly take all the other benefits you have in society that are actually important and trade.

Seriously, the fact that these are the only things you can think of it's clear that you've never actually been discriminated against in a serious manner.


EDIT: I'm not saying other men haven't been, because I know people will jump on that, I'm just saying what you pointed out is really trivial.

As much as I agree with you, I have to say that, triviality or not, it's still sexism. Call me Captain Obvious here, but no matter how small and insignificant sexism can be, it's still sexism.

On topic, I don't usually have a problem a lot of this stuff. As sexist as a lot of it truly is, I feel that it IS worse for women. The whole "men aren't allowed to be chubby" thing is true, but it's FAR more true for women - I honestly haven't met a woman over 10 stone who was happy with the way she was. I'm not sure where that whole thing has come from, either. Is it truly the media? Because, speaking to my friends about this in the past, guys in modern society are repelled by the super skinny woman. Of course, that's a whole different kettle of fish altogether.

All in all, yes, sexism against males in modern times does exist - but it's still worse for women.

[sup]By the way, no word of a lie, my Capatcha is "Ungrateful WomaN". I don't care what sex you are, that's just fucking comedy gold.[/sup]

Spoiler: The male privelege checklist

1.My odds of being hired for a job, when competing against female applicants, are probably skewed in my favor. The more prestigious the job, the larger the odds are skewed.

2. I can be confident that my co-workers won?t think I got my job because of my sex ? even though that might be true.

3. If I am never promoted, it?s not because of my sex.

4. If I fail in my job or career, I can feel sure this won?t be seen as a black mark against my entire sex?s capabilities.

5. I am far less likely to face sexual harassment at work than my female co-workers are. .

6. If I do the same task as a woman, and if the measurement is at all subjective, chances are people will think I did a better job.

7. If I?m a teen or adult, and if I can stay out of prison, my odds of being raped are relatively low.

8. On average, I am taught to fear walking alone after dark in average public spaces much less than my female counterparts are.

9. If I choose not to have children, my masculinity will not be called into question.

10. If I have children but do not provide primary care for them, my masculinity will not be called into question.

11. If I have children and provide primary care for them, I?ll be praised for extraordinary parenting if I?m even marginally competent.

12. If I have children and a career, no one will think I?m selfish for not staying at home.

13. If I seek political office, my relationship with my children, or who I hire to take care of them, will probably not be scrutinized by the press.

14. My elected representatives are mostly people of my own sex. The more prestigious and powerful the elected position, the more this is true.

15. When I ask to see ?the person in charge,? odds are I will face a person of my own sex. The higher-up in the organization the person is, the surer I can be.

16. As a child, chances are I was encouraged to be more active and outgoing than my sisters.

17. As a child, I could choose from an almost infinite variety of children?s media featuring positive, active, non-stereotyped heroes of my own sex. I never had to look for it; male protagonists are the default.

18. As a child, chances are I got more teacher attention than girls who raised their hands just as often.

19. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether or not it has sexist overtones.

20. I can turn on the television or glance at the front page of the newspaper and see people of my own sex widely represented.

21. If I?m careless with my financial affairs it won?t be attributed to my sex.

22. If I?m careless with my driving it won?t be attributed to my sex.

23. I can speak in public to a large group without putting my sex on trial.

24. Even if I sleep with a lot of women, there is no chance that I will be seriously labeled a ?slut,? nor is there any male counterpart to ?slut-bashing.?

25. I do not have to worry about the message my wardrobe sends about my sexual availability.

26. My clothing is typically less expensive and better-constructed than women?s clothing for the same social status. While I have fewer options, my clothes will probably fit better than a woman?s without tailoring.

27. The grooming regimen expected of me is relatively cheap and consumes little time.
28. If I buy a new car, chances are I?ll be offered a better price than a woman buying the same car.

29. If I?m not conventionally attractive, the disadvantages are relatively small and easy to ignore.

30. I can be loud with no fear of being called a shrew. I can be aggressive with no fear of being called a *****.

31. I can ask for legal protection from violence that happens mostly to men without being seen as a selfish special interest, since that kind of violence is called ?crime? and is a general social concern. (Violence that happens mostly to women is usually called ?domestic violence? or ?acquaintance rape,? and is seen as a special interest issue.)

32. I can be confident that the ordinary language of day-to-day existence will always include my sex. ?All men are created equal,? mailman, chairman, freshman, he.

33. My ability to make important decisions and my capability in general will never be questioned depending on what time of the month it is.

34. I will never be expected to change my name upon marriage or questioned if I don?t change my name.

35. The decision to hire me will not be based on assumptions about whether or not I might choose to have a family sometime soon.

36. Every major religion in the world is led primarily by people of my own sex. Even God, in most major religions, is pictured as male.

37. Most major religions argue that I should be the head of my household, while my wife and children should be subservient to me.

38. If I have a wife or live-in girlfriend, chances are we?ll divide up household chores so that she does most of the labor, and in particular the most repetitive and unrewarding tasks.

39. If I have children with my girlfriend or wife, I can expect her to do most of the basic childcare such as changing diapers and feeding.

40. If I have children with my wife or girlfriend, and it turns out that one of us needs to make career sacrifices to raise the kids, chances are we?ll both assume the career sacrificed should be hers.

41. Assuming I am heterosexual, magazines, billboards, television, movies, pornography, and virtually all of media is filled with images of scantily-clad women intended to appeal to me sexually. Such images of men exist, but are rarer.

42. In general, I am under much less pressure to be thin than my female counterparts are. . If I am fat, I probably suffer fewer social and economic consequences for being fat than fat women do.

43. If I am heterosexual, it?s incredibly unlikely that I?ll ever be beaten up by a spouse or lover.
44. Complete strangers generally do not walk up to me on the street and tell me to ?smile.?

45. Sexual harassment on the street virtually never happens to me. I do not need to plot my movements through public space in order to avoid being sexually harassed, or to mitigate sexual harassment.

45. On average, I am not interrupted by women as often as women are interrupted by men.

46. I have the privilege of being unaware of my male privilege.

taken from: http://www.amptoons.com/blog/the-male-privilege-checklist/

You guys really don't understand how much better you have it.

Oh, come on. So much of that is relateable to men as much as women. Also, number 44 is just downright freaky. I hope that doesn't happen to either sex.

 

[BRex21]

Ugh. have you ever thought that perhaps society's lack of belief in women and stigma of hard working women (hilary clinton, anyone?) may have discouraged loads of potential CEOs from achieving their potential?

I personally think its both a mix of the natural competitive nature and tendency towards bigger less personal social groups that most successful males typically exhibit. This being nature or nurture or some combination of the two is debatable but the fact is very few men exhibit the proper mix themselves.
Hillary Clinton is also a TERRIBLE example, who everyone always seems to chose because she is a Democrat. My problem with her is that her campaign was always about her being a woman, we will shatter the glass ceiling I can be an inspiration to women everywhere and so on. She wanted to court the vote based on what was in her pants as opposed to how she would go about the job.
I'm also someone who is old enough to remember Bill Clinton as president and the scratches and bruises on his face after the Lewinsky affair. Brings a whole new meaning to the slogan "there is never an excuse to hit a woman." To me she is the living embodiment of everything wrong with modern feminism.

Michelle Bachmann (i just had to suppress the urge to vomit) gets more respect from me simply because she does not feel that her being a woman should be part of the election campaign. Now she may have the spirit of a serial killer, but she never went to Greece and told them America was the birthplace of democracy either. She does not want to be the first woman president, she just wants to be the president. Of course I hope that doesn't happen because those policies she is campaigning for are far from anything I would ever want.

 

[Uberpig]

OP, just take a look at the huge pay gap between men and women and the casual sexism that's still prominent in every form of media and you'll realise you're wrong.
It's true that our culture doesn't seem to recognise the fact women can be sexist too, but women tend to lose out on this topic.

 

[zehydra]

These threads are so super.
Prepare for most people here to agree with you.

I understand your pain, I hate it when previously oppressed people get a few double standards in their favour too. What'll they want next, equal rights? Pfft...

Look, I'll tell you the same thing I told my boyfriend, if you want the male-only gyms, chubby male models and to be able to poke fun at women in ads then grand, not a bother. I'll gladly take all the other benefits you have in society that are actually important and trade.

Seriously, the fact that these are the only things you can think of it's clear that you've never actually been discriminated against in a serious manner.


EDIT: I'm not saying other men haven't been, because I know people will jump on that, I'm just saying what you pointed out is really trivial.

agreed, but OP is mostly reacting to Feminist reactions to trivial things as well.

The scope of Feminism has broadened somewhat, and has reached the point of trying to reach some kind of "social equality" which is absolutely impossible.

Although to be honest, I can't think of many non-trivial benefits that I have that you don't. (I'm male)

Read my post just above yours. This happens to me constantly. Every kitchen i go to there is one guy who either overtly says he won't won't work with a woman or inexplicably cannot hear anything i say. Of the ones i get along with fine, I have had a few tell me they "usually don't like working with women, but i work like a guy", whatever that means. I take my shit seriously and work hard. I didn't realize that was a gender thing.

Hell in order to become a chef, I didn't get promoted into a nice sous job and learn. I realized i had enough experience and fudged my resume so a new employer would hire me in management off the bat. There is no way in hell I would find a male chef who would choose me over his flock of young boys. Ever.

With all due respect, you don't have to deal with that every day at work just to make a buck. That is a non-trivial benefit in my book.

I've responded to you already actually, in a different post. Yes, doing what you were doing to get ahead was obviously non-trivial, but OP isn't talking about that. He's talking about double standards when it comes to sexism.

I'd point out that we ought to consider that fact that I don't have to deal with discrimination not to be a benefit, but the standard of how things are supposed to be. I really hate the use of the word "privilege", because it makes it seem like I'm somehow receiving something extra.

 

[Levethian]

Think MovieBob talked about 'positive-discrimination' in his video on Thor/Idris Elba.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-big-picture/3183-Skin-Deep
"Sometimes embracing a double standard is the right thing to do."

Positive-discrimination being the result of serious discrimination in the past. Black men, homosexuals and women are all emerging from a long period of oppression. The pendulum needs to swing the other way before society re-aligns itself properly.

All good.

 

[intheweeds]

These threads are so super.
Prepare for most people here to agree with you.

I understand your pain, I hate it when previously oppressed people get a few double standards in their favour too. What'll they want next, equal rights? Pfft...

Look, I'll tell you the same thing I told my boyfriend, if you want the male-only gyms, chubby male models and to be able to poke fun at women in ads then grand, not a bother. I'll gladly take all the other benefits you have in society that are actually important and trade.

Seriously, the fact that these are the only things you can think of it's clear that you've never actually been discriminated against in a serious manner.


EDIT: I'm not saying other men haven't been, because I know people will jump on that, I'm just saying what you pointed out is really trivial.

agreed, but OP is mostly reacting to Feminist reactions to trivial things as well.

The scope of Feminism has broadened somewhat, and has reached the point of trying to reach some kind of "social equality" which is absolutely impossible.

Although to be honest, I can't think of many non-trivial benefits that I have that you don't. (I'm male)

Read my post just above yours. This happens to me constantly. Every kitchen i go to there is one guy who either overtly says he won't won't work with a woman or inexplicably cannot hear anything i say. Of the ones i get along with fine, I have had a few tell me they "usually don't like working with women, but i work like a guy", whatever that means. I take my shit seriously and work hard. I didn't realize that was a gender thing.

Hell in order to become a chef, I didn't get promoted into a nice sous job and learn. I realized i had enough experience and fudged my resume so a new employer would hire me in management off the bat. There is no way in hell I would find a male chef who would choose me over his flock of young boys. Ever.

With all due respect, you don't have to deal with that every day at work just to make a buck. That is a non-trivial benefit in my book.

I've responded to you already actually, in a different post. Yes, doing what you were doing to get ahead was obviously non-trivial, but OP isn't talking about that. He's talking about double standards when it comes to sexism.

I'd point out that we ought to consider that fact that I don't have to deal with discrimination not to be a benefit, but the standard of how things are supposed to be. I really hate the use of the word "privilege", because it makes it seem like I'm somehow receiving something extra.

haha i'm not picking on you for the record, merely having conversation.

your point is correct, though. Here's a double standard: Women should always be in the kitchen making me a sandwich - unless someone is planning on giving her a paycheck for it, in that case, gtfo she is not qualified to make a sandwich.

When a woman does it - it's housekeeping, women are good at it.
When a man does it - its a serious profession, woman are not any good at it.

 

[trooper6]

I'm going to be honest. These boards and becoming more and more overrun with really privileged straight, white guys going on and on about how they are the real victims of society. These boards are becoming full of casual sexism against women. And casual racism, and casual homophobia. It is becoming a really hostile environment and I just don't know how much longer I want to stay here. And I've been here since 2006.

Here is an article by a colleague of mine about how white people feel as if they are suffering from more racism than black people. But that it isn't true.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sam-sommers/jockeying-for-stigma_b_868716.html

People, it's the same thing with gender. But just like the people in the article, you are just not going to hear it. No matter what the reality is, you are determined to claim victim status, and use that to attack women and to work against their continued attempts to attain equality. It is a great new trick. Claim that you are the victim in order to a) not have to deal with your own advantaged position in society, b) in order to further the oppression of women, people of color, sexual minorities, etc.