Sexual Relationships

[Silver]

No, there's nothing unusual about pre-marital or casual sex, and that's a good thing, but sex is still pretty controversial, when it really shouldn't need to be. There's still controversy about polyamourism, about bi- and homosexuality, about people living in non-traditional relationships.

It's "controversial" because it should be and because it has to be. "Free love" is a complete disaster.

Prove it.

You're putting words in my mouth, and I'm guessing you misunderstand me on purpose, to make me look bad, or yourself better.

Don't forget to put on your tinfoil hat when you go outside.

Stick to the subject instead of lowering yourself to personal insults.

Yes, I'm exaggerating a bit in my post, but not by much. Sex is still kept hidden, it's seen as pretty shameful, at least when examined closer than "I scored with a chick last night! Booyah!" or when it doesn't conform to the norm. My point is that there's nothing wrong inherently wrong with sex, especially not with todays technology, when we can treat the diseases we may contract if we're stupid, and prevent the spread of them at all, if we're not, and avoid any unwanted consequences with foolproof methods (with 100% chance of sucess, if we do it correctly).

For someone who is so gung-ho about sex you sure don't know a lot about STDs and birth control.

Which part? A condom, properly used, can't result in a pregnancy, and will prevent STDs. Even if it's improperly used, an abortion will take care of it. If you're careless enough to get a disease, only four of them are incurable. One of them you can get a vaccine for, and then you only need to worry about the others, and two of those can be treated until they no longer matters. Only HIV is still beyond us, and it's rather easy to avoid, if you're not very careless.

How? Why? Where? If you're going to say something like that, back it up.

Single motherhood (i.e. not a nuclear family) has been a societal catastrophe in the US and Britain, and surely many other places. Polygamy is also detrimental to a society. Hard to say anything about gay couples raising children, but on a larger scale that would undoubtedly be a catastrophe too.

Singe motherhood is a separate issue, and has nothing to do with free and uncontroversial sexuality. It's a social issue, and in many cases caused by tradictional, nuclear families that broke apart, or by people who had a lot of issues to begin with.

Polygamy is detrimental? Why? How? Where? Prove it.

Gay couples raising children would be a catastrophe? Why? How? According to studies, gay parents are on average better parents than straight parents, because unlike careless, stupid straight couples, or irresponsible single parents, they never get children unless they're completely prepared for and willing to take care of them. Those children are also better adjusted for society, in general.

 

[tsb247]

I never understood the appeal of open relationships. I also find it funny that very few people consider the dangers of such a thing like, oh... I dunno... STDs and such.

I've been with the same girl for almost two years now, and things just seem to get better as time goes on. The sex seems to evolve - getting more intense and better every time. We have learned what we each like, and we manage to keep things interesting.

From my experience, it is the emotional attachment that forms in a monogamous relationship that makes the sex so good; better than any one-night stand or so-called 'open relationship.'

 

[tsb247]

Polygamy is detrimental? Why? How? Where? Prove it.

Just look at the AIDs pandemic in Africa. That's all the proof one needs. Even condoms aren't a 100% gurantee that diseases won't spread from one person to another. They are roughly 99.9% effective, but only if they are:

A. Used - Far too many people simply don't use them.
B. Put on correctly - Believe it or not, this matters.
C. Not expired - They have an expiration date. After that, the latex begins to break down and becomes very fragile.

There are no gurantees, and too many people are lured into a false sense of security. Polygamy is indeed detrimental, at least in the medical sense. It's a fact, and to deny it is pure ignorance. One can make their odds better, but there is no perfect solution if one is going to have multiple sex partners.

 

[Silver]

Polygamy is detrimental? Why? How? Where? Prove it.

Just look at the AIDs pandemic in Africa. That's all the proof one needs. Even condoms aren't a 100% gurantee that diseases won't spread from one person to another. They are roughly 99.9% effective, but only if they are:

A. Used - Far too many people simply don't use them.
B. Put on correctly - Believe it or not, this matters.
C. Not expired - They have an expiration date. After that, the latex begins to break down and becomes very fragile.

There are no gurantees, and too many people are lured into a false sense of security. Polygamy is indeed detrimental, at least in the medical sense. It's a fact, and to deny it is pure ignorance. One can make their odds better, but there is no perfect solution if one is going to have multiple sex partners.

The problem in Africa isn't polygamy, it's stupid morons clinging to their old traditions and considering those more important than human life. No, I'm not being racist, I'm stating facts.

And condoms, if properly used (as I've already said), are effective enough. As long as they're properly manufactured, and you use them correctly (which you of course can't be sure of), you won't catch disease with them, unless you provoke it in another way.

 

[xDarc]

I never understood the appeal of open relationships. I also find it funny that very few people consider the dangers of such a thing like, oh... I dunno... STDs and such.

I've slept with around 200 people in the Detroit metro area. Worst I got was a little herpes and a little herpes never hurt anyone. After having it for about 4 years now it hardly ever breaks out anymore. So kind of an extreme example and also kind of lucky. But I'll be god damned if I didn't do it all and get away with it.

As Gary Oldman said in The Professional, "-that's why I stopped!"

 

[Eldarion]

I believe in only one partner.

It isn't a question of trust,but loyalty.

 

[tsb247]

The problem in Africa isn't polygamy, it's stupid morons clinging to their old traditions and considering those more important than human life.

Those old traditions often include taking multiple wives. It's not true in every case, but if you look at the social structures present in a lot of societies over there, you will see that polygamy is quite prevalent.

 

[tsb247]

I never understood the appeal of open relationships. I also find it funny that very few people consider the dangers of such a thing like, oh... I dunno... STDs and such.

I've slept with around 200 people in the Detroit metro area. Worst I got was a little herpes and a little herpes never hurt anyone. After having it for about 4 years now it hardly ever breaks out anymore. So kind of an extreme example and also kind of lucky. But I'll be god damned if I didn't do it all and get away with it.

As Gary Oldman said in The Professional, "-that's why I stopped!"

Uhhh... Are you serious? Uhhh... Wow... Hmmm... I'm not sure what to say.

...

...

...

Well, you did just broadcast on the internet a reason why no woman should ever sleep with you again.

... Never had herpes, but I'm sure it's not fun - nor is it good.

 

[Silver]

The problem in Africa isn't polygamy, it's stupid morons clinging to their old traditions and considering those more important than human life.

Those old traditions often include taking multiple wives. It's not true in every case, but if you look at the social structures present in a lot of societies over there, you will see that polygamy is quite prevalent.

Yes, but if someone believes having sex with a virgin is going to cure them of AIDS, if someone reasons that it's better to have 20 kids than preventing AIDS, because then maybe one of them will grow to become an adult, when condoms and sexual education is scoffed at, and women hardly have any rights when it comes to their own bodies, then polygamy isn't the problem.

The same reasoning could lead us to conclude that water is bad to drink. Because, well, a lot of Americans kill each other. And they drink water. Clearly, since water drinking is so prevalent, it has to be connected. There couldn't be other issues at work.

 

[Vet2501]

do what i do 1 night stands

a very simple solution

Yeah, done this before. But I got bored waking up next to some random girl every other weekend. Maybe it's something you grow out of?

Now I actually want something meaningful, and to be able to have a conversation that doesn't start with "Um... what was your name again?" at 11am on saturday.

 

[tsb247]

The same reasoning could lead us to conclude that water is bad to drink. Because, well, a lot of Americans kill each other. And they drink water. Clearly, since water drinking is so prevalent, it has to be connected. There couldn't be other issues at work.

This argument is not only invalid, but it is irrevelant.

The difference is that the issues that you brought up (lack of womens' rights, the belief that sex with a virgin can cure aids, etc.) actually ties in to the argument that polygamy is bad.

You said yourself:

"... if someone believes having sex with a virgin is going to cure them of AIDS, if someone reasons that it's better to have 20 kids than preventing AIDS, because then maybe one of them will grow to become an adult, when condoms and sexual education is scoffed at, and women hardly have any rights when it comes to their own bodies..."

The simple fact is that this indeed does back up the claim that having multiple sex partners (thus polygamy) is a problem.

How many virgins will they have sex with if the first one does not cure them? We both know that none of them will.

How many wives will be taken by one man since they cannot get away and do not have the right to do so? It's part of their culture. Promiscuity is the norm and thus, the problem.

http://www.mg.co.za/article/2008-08-30-un-says-polygamy-main-driver-of-aids-in-swaziland
http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/2007-02/2007-02-16-voa47.cfm?moddate=2007-02-16
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4242530.stm

Go ahead and keep believing sleeping around is not a danger to anyones' health. Whatever helps you sleep at night. You may want to go have a blood test when you wake up.

 

[Silver]

First off, I'm mainly supporting polyamouros relationships, rather than polygamy (but I have no problem with either).

Secondly, it's not the fact that they have multiple sexual partners that the problems, but HOW they do it. There's a lot less AIDS in the western world, despite people like xDarc (if you choose to believe his claim). He was careless, and got herpes, sure. But if people just know what they're doing, multiple sexual partners isn't a problem. It's the culture down there, the whole thing, not just the polygamy, that's fucked up, and needs fixing.

Basically, it's having unprotected sex with people with HIV with no regard for the consequences, and then having unprotected sex with other people that spread it, not people having multiple sexual partners. There's a huge difference.

 

[Dark Prophet]

A thought: Life is not porn. Polygamy almost never works in real life A second thought: People while being animals in general, are not beasts. Why do I have to fuck 10 different women, I'm not a monkey or a lion whos status is measured by the number of females it fucks.
And those of u who go with the sex with the same person is boring bullshit, most of u have not even lived with one person long enough for a proper sex-life to get boring. Maybe the problem is u, maybe u should take time to build up a proper relationship instead of fucking around like bloody chimps.
And a third thought: Have u any idea how easy it is to get some or several venereal diseases by having an open relationship.

 

[Sad Robot]

There's nothing simple about how the stomach digests food. An explanation of it may seem simple, but that's because it's a simplification. Explanations are, by definition, simplifications. If you don't understand what I mean by this, then there is no point continuing this discussion.

There is nothing simple about the "existence" of a single atom, let alone a molecular structure.

you have NO clue what i'm saying or talking about

go read what i originally wrote and at that point maybe you'll get a clue of what i was saying because at this point you have NO clue what i was saying

Please explain it to me then. I ought to understand it if it's so simple after all.

I think you're talking about something entirely different, though. I'm arguing the complexity of reality in relation to the notions of them we base our language on. What we call an "atom" isn't an atom but a simplification, a notion, an approximation of the truth, because that's the nature of science. You really slept through those classes, didn't you?

 

[EeveeElectro]

You sir are obscene, and I feel sorry for you. You're going to be very lonely.
If you ever fall in love, then maybe you'll understand what I experience each day.

<3
ditto to that. Restored my faith in men a little, thank you.

Anyway, I'm not over possessive but I don't want my fella sleeping with other ladies, it would break my heart to think of him with another woman.
Sex is not the most important thing in a relationship regardless of what 13 year old boys say, but it is a very good bonus. Iuno, it feels like we're one person and I feel so close to him. It's hard to explain.
Me and my boyfriend haven't been together for very long, we're past the "crush" stage and sex is still fantastic. If it's getting boring, then that tells you something about your relationship.

You'll find someone one day, don't worry.

 

[Sad Robot]

A thought: Life is not porn.

Sadly no. Although, on a more serious note, nobody's claiming it ought to be. In fact, porn goes pretty much the opposite direction, making it seem as if sex is the ultimate point of our existence. Maybe, on a biological level, it is, but we are not limited to that. The thing is, people already tend to love more than one person, and it isn't considered cheating. It's only when sex enters the picture that it's a no no. If we thought of sex as less important, if it hadn't penetrated our society on every level, then maybe sexual acts wouldn't be considered "betrayal" anymore. Because I think there are far worse ways to let someone down than having sex with someone else. And there are many ways in which people can still love and care for each other even if they occasionally go and fuck others they care or don't care about. It's all about the rules really, and I think the rules need to be revised.

Polygamy almost never works in real life A second thought: People while being animals in general, are not beasts.

Monogamy is a relatively rare phenomenon in nature and whether you consider humans animals or beasts is playing around with semantics. It's not useful to argue based on how other animals behave, because we have a different set of genes and a different environment.

Why do I have to fuck 10 different women, I'm not a monkey or a lion whos status is measured by the number of females it fucks.

Why on Earth would you assume it was about status? And at any rate, no one would be forcing you to have sex.

And those of u who go with the sex with the same person is boring bullshit, most of u have not even lived with one person long enough for a proper sex-life to get boring. Maybe the problem is u, maybe u should take time to build up a proper relationship instead of fucking around like bloody chimps.

Maybe, although who are you to define a proper relationship? Who said a "proper relationship" is what we're supposed to have? Why not just friendship, caring, love and mutual pleasure?

And a third thought: Have u any idea how easy it is to get some or several venereal diseases by having an open relationship.

Now you must be joking. That risk always exists, no matter the agreed upon terms of the relationship and it is surely within every reasonable person's judgement to make that decision for themselves.

 

[Seldon2639]

A thought: Life is not porn. Polygamy almost never works in real life A second thought: People while being animals in general, are not beasts. Why do I have to fuck 10 different women, I'm not a monkey or a lion whos status is measured by the number of females it fucks.
And those of u who go with the sex with the same person is boring bullshit, most of u have not even lived with one person long enough for a proper sex-life to get boring. Maybe the problem is u, maybe u should take time to build up a proper relationship instead of fucking around like bloody chimps.
And a third thought: Have u any idea how easy it is to get some or several venereal diseases by having an open relationship.

Wow, I hate to play the role of defending non-monogamy (since I am myself a monogamous person), but you're really misinformed. I mean, off the wall misinformed.

You have no data that polygamy doesn't work (though, when we talk about open relationships, the right word would be polyamory, since there's no multiple marriage). Further, the focus purely on multiple partners had by males ignores that any successful open relationship would include agreed upon rules (which both partners agree to) which often, if not usually, include a stipulation that the woman gets multiple partners as well.

Not for nothing, but almost anyone who advocates open relationships (go read some of Dan Savage's columns, if you would) suggests that there's a proper "gestation" period of closedness before a relationship should be opened. The point is that there's nothing inherently wrong with both partners saying "we want the opportunity to have sex with other people, while maintaining the emotional intimacy, family, ect. of our current relationship". It's not for everyone, it's not for me, but it's not "bad".

The thing is, it's not fair to say as an absolute and categorical statement "polyamory is wrong, and you should get over it". If a person is honest about knowing they need to be in an open relationship at the beginning, the other person has a choice of whether they can accept that. Monogamists should date and marry monogamists, poyamorists should date and marry polyamorists. Period.

You sir are obscene, and I feel sorry for you. You're going to be very lonely.
If you ever fall in love, then maybe you'll understand what I experience each day.

<3
ditto to that. Restored my faith in men a little, thank you.

Anyway, I'm not over possessive but I don't want my fella sleeping with other ladies, it would break my heart to think of him with another woman.
Sex is not the most important thing in a relationship regardless of what 13 year old boys say, but it is a very good bonus. Iuno, it feels like we're one person and I feel so close to him. It's hard to explain.
Me and my boyfriend haven't been together for very long, we're past the "crush" stage and sex is still fantastic. If it's getting boring, then that tells you something about your relationship.

You'll find someone one day, don't worry.

That's a perfectly fine mindset, and I completely respect (and agree with) it. I would not want my girlfriend sleeping with other men, but it's not fair of any of us to treat our personal predilections as though they're the only way to roll in a relationship. If you and your boyfriend are happy, more power to you. But some people don't want or need a monogamous relationship. Some people are compatible in every way, except sex. Some men have low sex drives, so do some women, and thus are okay with their partners blowing off steam elsewhere.

If a man says to a prospective girlfriend "I don't do monogamy" he's being upfront and honest, and if she still wants to date him, she's decided to be okay with it. Some relationships are very happy, both very sexually satisfied, and just like having sex with another person/people. Hell, there's an entire male fetish centered around being "cheated" on.

Don't be judgmental about other people's sexual interests, lest someone be judgmental of yours. Let he who is without kink cast the first stone.

 

[cleverlymadeup]

Please explain it to me then. I ought to understand it if it's so simple after all.

I think you're talking about something entirely different, though. I'm arguing the complexity of reality in relation to the notions of them we base our language on. What we call an "atom" isn't an atom but a simplification, a notion, an approximation of the truth, because that's the nature of science. You really slept through those classes, didn't you?

i HAVE explained it and you don't get it, so it's no use explain it again to you because once again you won't comprehend what i'm saying

 

[Sad Robot]

Please explain it to me then. I ought to understand it if it's so simple after all.

I think you're talking about something entirely different, though. I'm arguing the complexity of reality in relation to the notions of them we base our language on. What we call an "atom" isn't an atom but a simplification, a notion, an approximation of the truth, because that's the nature of science. You really slept through those classes, didn't you?

i HAVE explained it and you don't get it, so it's no use explain it again to you because once again you won't comprehend what i'm saying

So, you're not talking about the perceived complexity of matter?

 

[Yumi_and_Erea]

This is really awkward for me because I live with my girlfriend and my ex-girlfriend, the three of us in one house. I still like my ex and the feeling is mutual but we never really got it of for some reason. But here's the twist, and I swear to everything I hold dear that this is true,:

My ex asked my girlfriend out on a date about 3 weeks ago...and she said yes.

I'm cool with this, and my girlfriend says she doesn't want to break up with me, but I can't help but have this lingering thought in the back of my mind that I've become sexually desensitized.

Advice, anyone? (this seems about as approriate a thread as there's ever gonna be on the Escapist)