Shadow of the Colossus...meh
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I think it's against some international law to change someone's mind over the internet. I can't think of a single example of it, anyways.FieryTrainwreck said:
Though you are spot on with my naivety. I could have suspected that this opinion would be unpopular, but I never expected anything like the blowback that I got. If only there were an appropriate forum for people to talk about, discuss, if you will, video games and the playing thereof. Any suggestions?
Oh, and you could take a character named Troyhound McFluffiguffin and characterize them well, silly name notwithstanding.
The lack of story was a high point for me. Let me imagine my own motivations, and over time question them, and wonder why he was doing it and if it was right, and what exactly the relationship with the girl was, and... I think that gets my point across. Started simply, kill monster = save girl. But then you start to wonder. Eventually I started feeling really guilty about murdering the gentle giants, who were merely existing peacefully in a big empty land where they wouldn't hurt anything.CobraX said:
Magnificent game, in my humble opinion. And I understand that it is only an opinion and there will be disagreements. In summary, sorry you didn't like it original poster guy.
It was ages ago that I tried it, but all I can remember about it was riding around on a horse, getting lost, eventually finding a collosus, not knowing how to beat it, then having to give it back to the rental place.
So I'm with you on this one. I'd pick it up again, but I'm not hanging around on eBay for a game that'll most likely give me the same experience as before.
So I'm with you on this one. I'd pick it up again, but I'm not hanging around on eBay for a game that'll most likely give me the same experience as before.
You're certainly not going to change three year old opinions. People have already attempted to level criticism against this game. That it is spoken of so reverently, at this point so far removed from its original release, should strongly indicate to you that the criticism did not stick. It's not a game immune to criticism, by any stretch, but the complaints have already been filed, noted, refuted, etc. Your original post was tantamount to showing late at a popular party only to inform everyone that they're not actually having any fun. To some degree, you're casting aspersions on everyone's capacity for interpretation. Truth is: people brought exactly your complaints to the table back then, and they were summarily dismissed as ludicrous in the eyes of the majority.Thick said:
Note: we're talking about a majority opinion among a minority population, so don't hide behind any theories of popular mediocrity. Even those who didn't care for the game, by in large, acknowledge the design and storytelling on display. Staunch refusal to grant the game even these virtues comes off as intentionally contrarian behavior.
A lot of people despise intentionally contrarian behavior.
For threads like this? Step one would be locating a computer in the vicinity of 2006. If you want to start a hate thread about SotC (godspeed, dude...), wherein everyone tends to agree with your minority appraisal of the game, you should probably state your intentions right off. If you're going to slam a game on the basis of hype created by the gaming community, you should most definitely expect backlash when you post it smack in the middle of the gaming community. Naive is being kind.
Outside of satirical endeavors, authors with substantial capacity for characterization tend not to undermine their own efforts with idiotic names.
My copy was flawed and I was unable to finish the game. Overall I enjoyed it but it *did* sort of feel like crushing puppies playing it. Here are these huge, peaceful creatures minding their own business when along comes some guy with a questionable agenda wiping them out for personal gain. Maybe it was the developer's intention but I never got a sense of achievement from passing a level. I agree with a previous post, it's more "art" than "game", but still a great experience.
If you're fanatically opposed to pressing the O button, which reveals both your target destinations and the weak points on all colossi, you probably won't enjoy SotC.FreelanceButler said:
And you probably wear a helmet full-time.
(Just a rant that I find slightly relevant to all this)
You know, I've seen people trying to find the "Citizen Kane" of video gaming, I.E. the turning point that video games become a respected medium and such. I've seen people say Metroid Prime is the Citizen Kane of gaming, Super Mario World 3, Okami, Shadow of the Collosus, ICO, No More Heroes, and others.
I don't know if any of them can be considered the "Citizen Kane" of gaming, but the one thing that I think prevents them from achieving this status is not that they aren't good games; it's that we don't have an Orson Wells to go along with them.
Before Orson Wells, films weren't considered "art" because a group of people worked on them and therefore it wasn't the collective emotion of it's sole creator. Wells changed that with his own stubbornness and perfectionist attitude and effectively changed film. Some people may not enjoy Citizen Kane, and that's fine, but you can't deny it's cultural impact.
You can't have a "Citizen Kane" without an "Orson Wells". Video games just need to find their Orson Wells and then we can create the game that will transcend above "just a game" and really break through the demographics. Fumito Ueda [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fumito_Ueda], the director for ICO and SotC, actually fits in with some of Wells' personalities. He's an extreme perfectionist, leading some of his coworkers to quit because of it, and he demands everything to be exactly the way he imagines it.
Just a lil' rant I had stored in my brain, take it however you will.
You know, I've seen people trying to find the "Citizen Kane" of video gaming, I.E. the turning point that video games become a respected medium and such. I've seen people say Metroid Prime is the Citizen Kane of gaming, Super Mario World 3, Okami, Shadow of the Collosus, ICO, No More Heroes, and others.
I don't know if any of them can be considered the "Citizen Kane" of gaming, but the one thing that I think prevents them from achieving this status is not that they aren't good games; it's that we don't have an Orson Wells to go along with them.
Before Orson Wells, films weren't considered "art" because a group of people worked on them and therefore it wasn't the collective emotion of it's sole creator. Wells changed that with his own stubbornness and perfectionist attitude and effectively changed film. Some people may not enjoy Citizen Kane, and that's fine, but you can't deny it's cultural impact.
You can't have a "Citizen Kane" without an "Orson Wells". Video games just need to find their Orson Wells and then we can create the game that will transcend above "just a game" and really break through the demographics. Fumito Ueda [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fumito_Ueda], the director for ICO and SotC, actually fits in with some of Wells' personalities. He's an extreme perfectionist, leading some of his coworkers to quit because of it, and he demands everything to be exactly the way he imagines it.
Just a lil' rant I had stored in my brain, take it however you will.
I believe shadow Of Collosus and MGS have the 2 worst types of Plot. ONe overly minimalist. I have no Idea who these people are and the game expects me to care. They could be horrible murderers for all I know. Wander has some black tentacles go into him, That can't be good. But I really don't care about him. Mgs on the other hand overloads with contrived and stupid storylines. And Hour long cutscenes.
Hey, nobody likes EVERYTHING. If he didn't like Shaddow of the Colossus, who cares? It's his oppinion, and it's none of your business. I've hardly heard of this game until recently. What's it about?
I could say something like another reiteration of the fact that I thought the game was very stylistically good, and that the story, though marred by some design choices, was good. I could say I agree that intentionally contrarian (thanks for this word, btw) behavior is something that should be avoided. I could say that trying to work emotional characterizations into actual gameplay is a fair sounding way to approach games as being art, but that a banner of artistic license should not negate mistakes made in design. I could ask if you were subtly agreeing with what I said about Troyhound McFluffiguffin, while I also wrestled with the urge to bring up your fondness for subtlety.FieryTrainwreck said:
I could say all of that, and it would all be an accurate depiction of my thoughts, but I won't say any of it. Frankly, after eight pages of trying mostly to just make and spell out arguments with full, if never stated, understanding that it is illegal to change someone's mind over the internet, I am exhausted.
If I admit fault and promise to only ever post again about general topics that hold some modicum of contemporary relevance, and if need be admit defeat, can we just forget that I posted this at all? I would very much appreciate it.
It's about the mindset you're in before starting playing it.
I've played SoTC about 2 years ago. I started it immediately after I beat a Zelda game (i think it was Ocarina of Time). Being in a "Zelda mindset" I expected a totally different experience.
Riding two hours and not finding anything worth killing (regular baddies I mean) seemed very stupid at that time, so I threw it in the "stupid games" pile.
In January I picked it up again, but this time I felt like running around and leisurely exploring the island, taking in the "artsy bullshit" like the long bridge, the descent in the first temple, the island opening up before the player, yadda yadda.
It was almost like a work of literature made in a game box. More like a play than a novel actually...
I can see the beauty of trying to use literary techniques in a video game through level design and gameplay.
/rant
This thread takes me back to one of my DA:O hate rants. Loving or hating SoTC (seems it tends to create strong feelings) is about what you expect from it when you put the disc in and about peoples ability to adjust their expectations.
If you're set on playing an action platformer you'll most likely hate it, especially if you can't allow yourself look at it from another perspective.
I've played SoTC about 2 years ago. I started it immediately after I beat a Zelda game (i think it was Ocarina of Time). Being in a "Zelda mindset" I expected a totally different experience.
Riding two hours and not finding anything worth killing (regular baddies I mean) seemed very stupid at that time, so I threw it in the "stupid games" pile.
In January I picked it up again, but this time I felt like running around and leisurely exploring the island, taking in the "artsy bullshit" like the long bridge, the descent in the first temple, the island opening up before the player, yadda yadda.
It was almost like a work of literature made in a game box. More like a play than a novel actually...
I can see the beauty of trying to use literary techniques in a video game through level design and gameplay.
/rant
This thread takes me back to one of my DA:O hate rants. Loving or hating SoTC (seems it tends to create strong feelings) is about what you expect from it when you put the disc in and about peoples ability to adjust their expectations.
If you're set on playing an action platformer you'll most likely hate it, especially if you can't allow yourself look at it from another perspective.
I feel bad for the original author of this post. The guy had an opinion he wanted to express and then gets crucified for wanting to share his though...causing all kinds of flame wars and disgruntled posters about "hating this kind of thread". Here's a pro-tip if you don't like a thread..IGNORE IT! You don't have to click on everything. Anyway now that I got that out of my system my thoughts on SoTC. I borrowed it from a friend made it about half way though before I had to give it back and I thought that it was great for what it was trying to achieve but don't understand that huge critical acclaim over other games and the game's controls were really awkward which is not something i usually complain about (I like old school resident evil) I eventually saw what they trying to do with the controls but I think they could have used some polish. So the real question is will I buy the Ico/SoTC hd pack when it comes out? Hell yes! because they are good games that deserve a purchase or at least rental and do interesting things for gaming as a medium. But I still wouldn't put them in any top 50 games of all time lists..Ico maybe like 67
judging by some of the "insightful" conversation in this thred i would like to say only this.
I now dub thee sir thick, The greatest, sneakiest troll in all the internet.
I now dub thee sir thick, The greatest, sneakiest troll in all the internet.
I also very recently bought it, bout a week ago and I just finished it today. I didn't find it to be a meh game, I found it to be the pinnacle of minimalist game design philosophy. That being said, there was one thing I found remarkable which I can see some people put off by.Thick said:
The game plays like a movie, following a set story which we just follow the protagonist through the motions, the only impact we have on the story is how long it takes said protagonist to move through the story.
Hmmmm.... perhaps I can best explain it like this...
If I am to go exterminate a race of giant creatures who probably just want to be left alone, I need some motivation before I go jamming my sword repeatedly into their sensitive spots.
So yeah... the game doesn't really given me enough info at the start to justify the genocide that your going to carry out. Later in the game, ur given the that motovation but you still probably won't feel good about yourself by the end. UNLESS of course you think of it as your just following Wander on his journey that been predetermined blah blah blah fate.
TL;DR - Shadow of the Colossus does not provide enough information at the start of the game for the player to justify murdering things. I'm only gonna kill things if I have a good reason to.
Which is kind of funny considering that's probably exactly what the developer wanted you to feel (The "Am I justified?" part). Are you really justified in exterminating these monstrous beasts that really meant no harm all in the name of (implied) love? Not everything has to be justified, in fact most things are (just look at all the FPS war games on the market, is all of that bloodshed really "justified"?) If you have the patience read this [http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps2/924364-shadow-of-the-colossus/faqs/41817], it has some interesting thoughts on the plot.Choppaduel said:
