Shooting Spree in England.

[Billion Backs]

You know what they say about guns. When guns are outlawed, only the outlaws have them...

And they are the people you'd probably get shot by.

Restricting something from the people is never a good idea.

 

[not_the_dm]

... And I thought we lived in a civlised country.

Oh please. One man going insane does not render an entire nation uncivilised.

I was going for flippancy. Guess it didn't work...

 

[Dr. Crawver]

bloody hell, I've just heard of this and it's suprising. Worring since it's england

 

[Danny Ocean]

Knives are more lethal than firearms.

How do you come to that conclusion?

With a knife you need to be close and you need to overpower your target. The person can run. They could overpower you. You could pull back at the last second during a fit of passion and not harm them. With a gun it's just so easy you can almost kill by accident.

I imagine it's because in the US of A the hospitals are well equipped to deal with gunshot wounds rather than knife wounds. Over here it's likely the opposite.

You know what they say about guns. When guns are outlawed, only the outlaws have them...

And they are the people you'd probably get shot by.

Restricting something from the people is never a good idea.

Gun control here is high. Gun crime is low. The outlaws can't get them easily like everyone magically thinks that they can. If they could, I'm sure they would. They don't, so they must not be able to. Or a knife is a good enough substitute for scaring people with.

... And I thought we lived in a civlised country.

Oh please. One man going insane does not render an entire nation uncivilised.

I was going for flippancy. Guess it didn't work...

Oh, heh, my bad. I just had to cheer up a particularly nihilistic friend of mine. Sorry for the serious tone.

 

[Liberaliter]

Wow... that's pretty big news. That shows me for not watching the news today.

Obviously it won't seem that big to you Americans with your near constant state of blood fueled rampages.

Spoiler

Just kidding guys.

You do know that UK has one of the highest crime rate in the world. Much higher than ours.

When polices are out gunned, the population is defenseless, and criminals spend less time in jails, crimes of course will run rampant.

You're probably right. It's not like I'm checking my sources here.

 

[Malyc]

12 people killed by one madman with a gun.

You see, if we legalised guns over here, this sort of thing would happen much more frequently.

Not true, because the gunman (if he were in a place where weapons WEREN'T prohibited) would most likely be taken down by the general populace, which is why there are not all that many shooting sprees in America.

 

[MetalGenocide]

Why didn't anyone shoot back? Oh wait....

This.

 

[Kinguendo]

12 people killed by one madman with a gun.

You see, if we legalized guns over here, this sort of thing would happen much more frequently.

I don't know, I think that if someone indeed has the ability to do this sort of atrocious act, they will find a way to carry it out.

ohhhh and a typo!

Yeah, its true that if someone TRUELY wants to kill someone else you are going to find it hard to stop them... doesnt mean you shouldnt make it as difficult as possible for them to A) get the means to kill someone and B) allow that means to increase their kill ratio.

This event is REALLY rare in England, normally if some idiot is going to kill someone they use a knife because they cant get guns and that means they have a very small chance of being able to kill more than one person AND even the person they do attack has a relatively high chance of surviving.

 

[Internet Kraken]

Well there goes my good day. Despite knowing that people are murdered across the globe every day, things like this still manage to shock and depress me. Though I think it has more to do with how a lot of people react to it. Nobody really seems to care about the people that get killed. They don't matter anymore. People just use events like this to advance their own political agendas, and the news just spreads this around. I can't really berate people for doing this, but I'd be lying if I said it didn't bother me. I just hate how people will use tragedies like this to forward their opinions. Like in this thread. Most of you are just using this to talk about gun control and whether or not it should be enforced.

The world really sucks sometimes. Fortunately there are a lot of things in it that will cheer you up.

 

[jdun]

Knives are more lethal than firearms.

How do you come to that conclusion?

How? For an example a 9mm bullet is 1.169 inch long and diameter is .394 inch (over twice as small as a US dime). Compare to a kitchen knife is very very very small. If you get stabbed by a knife the chances are very very very great that it will hit a vital organ than a bullet. What firearms have is range.

 

[Malyc]

You know what they say about guns. When guns are outlawed, only the outlaws have them...

And they are the people you'd probably get shot by.

Restricting something from the people is never a good idea.

Also, when guns are outlawed, I will become an outlaw. (at least 4 times over =)

 

[ThePeaceFrog]

Can people not go and use the sensless murder of 12 people to advocate their differing beliefs towards gun control. This is a time when our thoughts should be with the victims and their families - not political one-upmanship over which country has a better stance towards the legality of gun ownership.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Beeb's coverage here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/10214661.stm

Honestly? Maniacs will happen from time to time. Once every 10 years (Hungerford, Dunblaine) or so.

My thoughts go out to all those involved.

I imagine it's because in the US of A the hospitals are well equipped to deal with gunshot wounds rather than knife wounds. Over here it's likely the opposite.

Also the US isn't as accustomed to dealing with Bombs as we are, thanks to the IRA and others.

 

[silver wolf009]

True, if people want to kill they will find ways to do it. You could ban sharp objects and people will just beat or strangle people to death. You could cut everybody's limbs off but would mutilating people really make the world better.

See you prove my point. guns are one of the easiest ways to kill someone. Murders would continue, only in more grisly ways. And if guns are banned, then the law abiding citizens will comply while the crooks wont. Making it easier for people who dont follow the law.

 

[jdun]

Wow... that's pretty big news. That shows me for not watching the news today.

Obviously it won't seem that big to you Americans with your near constant state of blood fueled rampages.

Spoiler

Just kidding guys.

You do know that UK has one of the highest crime rate in the world. Much higher than ours.

When polices are out gunned, the population is defenseless, and criminals spend less time in jails, crimes of course will run rampant.

You're probably right. It's not like I'm checking my sources here.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html

 

[Danny Ocean]

You're probably right. It's not like I'm checking my sources here.

He's not. See this. [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.199025-Shooting-Spree-in-England#6501627]

Not true, because the gunman (if he were in a place where weapons WEREN'T prohibited) would most likely be taken down by the general populace, which is why there are not all that many shooting sprees in America.

Really? [http://tamilhelp.wordpress.com/2008/05/13/timeline-us-shooting-sprees-history-of-school-shootings/]

I have memory of only one shooting spree in the UK within the last ten years, while I know of several in the USA. This is only my memory though. The link above is a much better source. I think any Brit will tell you, however, the sprees like this only happen here about once a decade.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html

How about you read your own terrible[footnote]The Daily Mail is like the Fox News of the UK. I think it's even owned by the same guy.[/footnote] source?

But criminologists say crime figures can be affected by many factors, including different criminal justice systems and differences in how crime is reported and measured.

In Britain, an affray is considered a violent crime, while in other countries it will only be logged if a person is physically injured.

There are also degrees of violence. While the UK ranks above South Africa for all violent crime, South Africans suffer more than 20,000 murders each year - compared with Britain's 921 in 2007.

Experts say there are a number of reasons why violence is soaring in the UK. These include Labour's decision to relax the licensing laws to allow round-the-clock opening, which has led to a rise in the number of serious assaults taking place in the early hours of the morning.
But Police Minister David Hanson said: 'These figures are misleading.

Levels of police recorded crime statistics from different countries are simply not comparable since they are affected by many factors, for example the recording of violent crime in other countries may not include behaviour that we would categorise as violent crime.

An affray is a noisy fight.

I knew this would happen. Instead of people mourning over the deaths of several people, you get all the pro-gun crowd coming in and saying, "Well, if you'd listened to us, and you all had guns, this wouldn't have happened."

Christ almighty.

The world really sucks sometimes. Fortunately there are a lot of things in it that will cheer you up.

Well good. At least someone cares.

 

[Kinguendo]

Why didn't anyone shoot back? Oh wait....

Yeah, the way to stop shootings happening? Include more guns, brilliant plan(!) T_T

If everyone had a gun, no one would get shot because guns are just that freaking marvelous(!)

The fact that guns arent legal in England is the reason why crap like this doesnt happen often here, problems arent solved by throwing more of said problem at it.

As I always say: Guns dont kill people, people kill people... really fast... and from really far away... with guns.

 

[Squarez]

Why didn't anyone shoot back? Oh wait....

Y'know, that's exactly what I said after Columbine.

 

[Billion Backs]

You know what they say about guns. When guns are outlawed, only the outlaws have them...

And they are the people you'd probably get shot by.

Restricting something from the people is never a good idea.

Gun control here is high. Gun crime is low. The outlaws can't get them easily like everyone magically thinks that they can. If they could, I'm sure they would. They don't, so they must not be able to. Or a knife is a good enough substitute for scaring people with.

Maybe we should outlaw the knives too! And have people box each other to death.
With enough perseverance anything can be achieved, that's the beauty of the human spirit. If you really want to kill someone, as can be seen in this example, you'll do it anyways whether deadly weapons are readily available to you or not. People who do murder sprees before committing suicide don't usually care about the normal consequences, you know?

A weapon can be made out of practically anything. He could have made explosives and molotov cocktails at home, from completely legitimate materials you can get just about anywhere. And kill a ton of people with them too, if he really had the determination to do so.

I do not think people should be restricted from things just because someone might misuse them. Lets just use US for the example. For every gun owner that uses his rights irresponsibly, there are hundreds of those who don't.

I think that even if the sacrifices have to be made, people should be free.

Edit: Frankly, removing the guns, or any other type of weapon out of the equation here is exactly like treating symptoms instead of the disease. There are very good reasons behind shootings of this type, deep rooted in our society and what not. Maybe if, instead of restricting everyone, we would look into the causes and try to anticipate and prevent them...

But no, I guess, that's too inefficient. It's a lot more efficient to have a perfect crime-free society in prison, where your every movement and thought is monitored by the state. I mean, I'm pretty sure there wouldn't be any crime in 1984 type of situation.

Crime, especially the kind that's obviously committed by severely depressed people, is our own fault as a society. Just dismissing it as "oh well the dude was just bonkers" is weak.