Shooting Spree in England.

[Sovvolf]

Snip

Yes but your reason for owning a gun is reasonable. Like for people living in Africa owning a rifle or a large calibre gun would be appropriate because of the dangerous wild life about. Your city slicker friend doesn't really need to own a gun, us Brits don't really need to own guns unless we live on farms and we need to keep Fox away from our live stock. Gun control should be subjective to the area. Gun control for the city should be tightened while gun control for your area (where dangerous wild life like bears and apparently Cougars roam) should be pretty loose due to the obvious danger of the area.

um... I think this proves something about gun control but im not sure what...

That if you outlaw guns only outlaws will have guns is the quote you're looking for.

Yeah but with this case... the gun was a legal gun. A 22. rifle or a shotgun with the sounds of things. Heck I could go down and get one of those tomorrow if I chose to ( I actually plan to on Friday.. maybe Saturday).

As for the shooting it self, I morn the losses of every one killed here. Why couldn't the guy just have killed himself in the first place instead of taking innocent lives with him. This was also done up North (being that I'm a Northerner this is pretty scary) though this was done far from where I live.

I thought all guns were banned in the UK though...?

Depends on the power of the weapon or the area you live in. Farmers can get full powered guns in order to fend of foxes, poachers and such to protect their live stock. People who live in rural areas can get licensed fire arms for hunting. 22. Rifles, as long as they aren't too powerful (Under 12ips I think) can't be purchased by anyone above the age of 18 with most forms of I.D. This weapon was legal.

If anything this makes an arguement to be more strict on gun control than to loosen up. Though I hope they don't I was looking forward to purchasing a 22. on the weekend... now some nut goes and starts murdering people with one... they may start banning them too.

 

[punkrocker27]

Even within the test bed of US states, those with tighter gun control have lower homicide rates.
Although perhaps this is as a result of an underlying issue. I shall research and get back to you!

That would be contradictory. The 31 states that have "shall issue" laws allowing private citizens to carry concealed weapons have, on average, a 24 percent lower violent crime rate, a 19 percent lower murder rate and a 39 percent lower robbery rate than states that forbid concealed weapons. In fact, the nine states with the lowest violent crime rates are all right-to-carry states. Remarkably, guns are used for self-defense more than 2 million times a year, three to five times the estimated number of violent crimes committed with guns.

Also, lower murder rates in foreign countries do not prove that gun control works. This is one of the favorite arguments of gun control proponents, and yet the facts show that there is simply no correlation between gun control laws and murder or suicide rates across a wide spectrum of nations and cultures. In Israel and Switzerland, for example, a license to possess guns is available on demand to every law-abiding adult, and guns are easily obtainable in both nations. Both countries also allow widespread carrying of concealed firearms, and yet, admits Dr. Arthur Kellerman, one of the foremost medical advocates of gun control, Switzerland and Israel "have rates of homicide that are low despite rates of home firearm ownership that are at least as high as those in the United States." A comparison of crime rates within Europe reveals no correlation between access to guns and crime.

 

[Danny Ocean]

No, it mentions number injured. In addition, this killer injured 25 others. I think I only saw one spree with that many injured (one of the school sprees).

Okay, I'll consider the credibility of that source suitably undermined. However, judging from the anecdotal evidence present in this thread, sprees are much more common in the US than the UK.

The U.S. is also a bigger country with a bigger population, and is going to have more murders period.

True, but that doesn't undermine that particular point. You know what? I'm going to make studying gun control laws my extended project subject over the summer. I'm gonna figure this out with Economics.

*snip*

Can you link me to that source? I might as well start researching now.

As mine got lost in a quote stack, I second the above, lets argue guns or not, or US against UK in another thread huh?

Alright, I'll stop. Thanks for reminding me what this is really about. I just get so riled some times.

 

[SenseOfTumour]

I understand, easy to get very involved in a debate as emotional as that, and no need to stop, I was more suggesting a sideways step to a fresh thread is all, and thanks very much for being so polite about it.

The Escapist - where we sometimes break with net forum tradition and get it right

 

[Canid117]

12 people killed by one madman with a gun.

You see, if we legalised guns over here, this sort of thing would happen much more frequently.

EDIT: Yes, OK, if guns were legal over here, someone could have stopped him. But then there would be a lot more guns on the streets, and thugs with knives would become thugs with guns. You can outrun someone with a knife. Outrunning bullets is something much harder.

An NRA member would point out that black market weapons are easier to get than legal weapons if you know the right people. Which a professional criminal would.

 

[Squarez]

Why didn't anyone shoot back? Oh wait....

Y'know, that's exactly what I said after Columbine.

Schools in America have a no weapons allowed policy, meaning that there are supposed to be no guns on school property, and that students have to fight of gunmen with pencils, although after this happened my schools hired armed policemen to guard the place.

I was being sarcastic, but what this idiot is implying that you'd all be safer if the scholl lifted the "no weapons" policy.

Hmm... apparently sarcasm only works for you? And at least one armed security guard seems like a good idea in any school campus, wouldnt you agree?

When I said "this idiot" I was referring to "crimson5pheonix" not you. Obviously, armed guards are a brilliant idea.

 

[Lemon Of Life]

How sad...and unexpected, Cumbria is supposed to be a pretty tame area.

 

[KnowYourOnion]

Knives are more lethal than firearms.

How do you come to that conclusion?

How? For an example a 9mm bullet is 1.169 inch long and diameter is .394 inch (over twice as small as a US dime). Compare to a kitchen knife is very very very small. If you get stabbed by a knife the chances are very very very great that it will hit a vital organ than a bullet. What firearms have is range.

and Newtons laws of motion on their side
F=ma or K.E=mv2
which ever one you use the bullet is going to have the bigger number
and when that bullet it hits you most of that energy is going to be dispersed into your body it doesn't even have to hit an organ to damage it severely. Or say perhaps its a low velocity round, it doesnt quite have enough energy to punch through the bones in your back well then it will ricochet around your body and all probabilities considered it probably will nick something fairly important leading to your death.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

Why didn't anyone shoot back? Oh wait....

Y'know, that's exactly what I said after Columbine.

Schools in America have a no weapons allowed policy, meaning that there are supposed to be no guns on school property, and that students have to fight of gunmen with pencils, although after this happened my schools hired armed policemen to guard the place.

I was being sarcastic, but what this idiot is implying that you'd all be safer if the scholl lifted the "no weapons" policy.

When did I imply school kids should have guns? I don't recall that part...

He was raging at me, not you.

I told you he was raging at me!

 

[fullbleed]

Charlie Brooker did a rather brilliant piece on the news coverage of these types of shootings before. Still revelant and well worth watching.

 

[Squarez]

Why didn't anyone shoot back? Oh wait....

Y'know, that's exactly what I said after Columbine.

Schools in America have a no weapons allowed policy, meaning that there are supposed to be no guns on school property, and that students have to fight of gunmen with pencils, although after this happened my schools hired armed policemen to guard the place.

I was being sarcastic, but what this idiot is implying that you'd all be safer if the scholl lifted the "no weapons" policy.

When did I imply school kids should have guns? I don't recall that part...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but by saying "Why didn't anyone shoot back?" to me that says "this situation could be avoided if firearms were legal in the UK". And considering that the UK and US Schools both have the "no guns" policy, surely that means that if schools legalised guns in schools that would REDUCE the crime rate, right?

 

[punkrocker27]

Can you link me to that source? I might as well start researching now.

Sure but I agree that this debate should be taken into a different thread.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

Why didn't anyone shoot back? Oh wait....

Y'know, that's exactly what I said after Columbine.

Schools in America have a no weapons allowed policy, meaning that there are supposed to be no guns on school property, and that students have to fight of gunmen with pencils, although after this happened my schools hired armed policemen to guard the place.

I was being sarcastic, but what this idiot is implying that you'd all be safer if the scholl lifted the "no weapons" policy.

When did I imply school kids should have guns? I don't recall that part...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but by saying "Why didn't anyone shoot back?" to me that says "this situation could be avoided if firearms were legal in the UK". And considering that the UK and US Schools both have the "no guns" policy, surely that means that if schools legalised guns in schools that would REDUCE the crime rate, right?

No, because children shouldn't have guns. It's a completely different scenario. But now I've adopted a different stance entirely anyway, so it no longer matters.

 

[XJ-0461]

12 people killed by one madman with a gun.

You see, if we legalised guns over here, this sort of thing would happen much more frequently.

EDIT: Yes, OK, if guns were legal over here, someone could have stopped him. But then there would be a lot more guns on the streets, and thugs with knives would become thugs with guns. You can outrun someone with a knife. Outrunning bullets is something much harder.

An NRA member would point out that black market weapons are easier to get than legal weapons if you know the right people. Which a professional criminal would.

Professional criminals aren't who I'm as worried about, as professional criminals are less likely to be using them in the streets. I'm more concerned that if guns were legalized over here, youth gangs (who are inntimidating enough as it is) will have easier access to them, and they'll be willing to use them on anyone. If they're willing to threaten anyone with a knife, I'm sure that the same mentality will extend to guns if they could easily secure them.

 

[probunk]

Gun control works so well, right chaps?

 

[FiveSpeedf150]

I like how there is a mass murder and all the weenies immediately start blaming the gun.

 

[Internet Kraken]

Charlie Brooker did a rather brilliant piece on the news coverage of these types of shootings before. Still revelant and well worth watching.

See, I think this video really shows why I'm bothered by the news so much when it comes to these events. They always spread around the story, drawing as much attention to it as possible. They always talk about the killer and why he might have been drove to do this, while the people he killed are represented by nothing more than a body count used to shock the viewers. Then everyone uses the event as a way to forward their own political agendas and boost support for their opinion regarding things like gun control. In the end the people that were affected by this the most, the victims and their families, are completley forgotten.

 

[Aur0ra145]

Sucks those people died, I really wish there had been just one responsible concealed handgun permit holder there to stop him.

 

[punkrocker27]

Charlie Brooker did a rather brilliant piece on the news coverage of these types of shootings before. Still revelant and well worth watching.

Yeah I wish that news media outlets would actually stop to listen to these guys' advice, but unfortunately they just want ratings and lots of that stuff mentioned gets them ratings. It's almost like this sick vicious cycle where if they keep purposefully sensationalizing rampages than it will inspire more rampages to sensationalize and therefore make them more money. The only way we can hope to curb the trend is to somehow become a viewership, or to an extant a society on a whole less fixated with violence.

 

[Actual]

People aren't reading the story. This man drove about, seemingly at random, and fired at passers by. Someone carrying a gun could not have stopped him.

If anything we should be arguing for better equipped and more police, if a helicopter and armed response unit could have got to him after the first killing all the rest could have been prevented.

Gun control laws have so little to do with this case it's infuriating to see people use it to score a couple of cheap points.