Should bro dudes get into sci fi and fantasy?

[CaptJohnSheridan]

http://www.philchalmers.com/

This is Phil Chalmers. He goes to schools to talk about teen killers. He says violent video games and movies are creating a generation of killers. His favorite TV shows are reality TV, Sports and Sitcoms. He appears on Fox News. He enjoys stock car racing, MMA, the UFC, NFL Football, and fast cars.

Should people like him broaden their horizons and get interested in a work of sci fi or fantasy?

I am surprised these people glorify the military but aren't interested in any fiction with badass characters. Does bro culture discourages sci fi and fantasy?

 

[Zontar]

Science fiction and fantasy has already been flooded with whatever the term for the opposite of a dude bro is for years now, with most works being worthless Young Adult Fiction that is only science fiction or fantasy in that there is a very thin layer of it over a very, very thick shell of teen melodrama.

So personally I say it should if only to help counterbalance this. I'm tired of the "best the genre has to offer" being junk about a guy trying to come out to his parents in a world where lying gets water dropped on your head because reasons.

Despite the popularity of the genres in gaming, movies and television, they're both currently in a dark age in literature, so any change would be good.

 

[DefunctTheory]

I'm confused. Are you asking me if I want Anti-Video Game 'activist' to take a big steaming load on Sci-Fi (Presumably movies/tv shows?) too? Or if him watching sci-fi would change his views?

 

[Queen Michael]

So personally I say it should if only to help counterbalance this. I'm tired of the "best the genre has to offer" being junk about a guy trying to come out to his parents in a world where lying gets water dropped on your head because reasons.

This made me chuckle. Good job, friend.

Science fiction and fantasy has already been flooded with whatever the term for the opposite of a dude bro is for years now, with most works being worthless Young Adult Fiction that is only science fiction or fantasy in that there is a very thin layer of it over a very, very thick shell of teen melodrama.

So personally I say it should if only to help counterbalance this. I'm tired of the "best the genre has to offer" being junk about a guy trying to come out to his parents in a world where lying gets water dropped on your head because reasons.

To be honest, I agree with this. I'm not saying everything in the ways of sf/fantasy literature has to be for hardcore fans, but it's annoying to see the market flooded with science fiction for people who don't like science fiction, (like Jupiter Ascending,) or dystopias that make no sense except as allegories.

 

[Avnger]

I'm sorry, but is this a thread about forcing some generic group of "others" into doing a certain topic because "of course they would never do this thing?" The entire premise is ridiculous. "Bro Dudes" are the exact same as you (and me); they're just people.

Everyone should be expanding their horizons in every way possible. Sure, those who don't read science fiction could read some. Similarly, those who read science fiction should go out and learn to play sports. People are people. Categorizing others into camps/cliques is how you end up with idiot things (using some videogame examples) console wars or pc master race but on a bigger scale.

I went to college, dated a D1 track athelete, trained to be an Air Force officer, and partied every weekend. Am I a 'bro dude?' I was also a computer engineering major and now do software development; I've also probably read nearly every Star Wars EU book along with a bunch of David Weber and John Ringo stuff and play video games daily. Am I a 'nerd?'

tldr: Pigeon-holing others limits both them because it'll cause you to only treat them a single way and yourself because you won't try expanding your own horizons and will act to reinforce the roles you've created.

edit: I have atrocious grammar -.-

 

[Thaluikhain]

As mentioned, there's plenty of that already.

Now, I don't mind sci-fi that isn't sci-fi (except...call it space fantasy or something).

However, there's a real inertia about this, people don't want sci-fi or fantasy stuff to be different. People were outraged about vampires sparkling in Twilight, not because the book was rubbish, but because we all know that these fictional creatures should not sparkle, and it is deeply offensive if the do. Likewise, people get upset when sci-fi writers come up with new ideas, because sci-fi should be about robots and lasers and the important people have to be white straight guys in the future.

Notably, though, Harry Potter and the Hunger Games[footnote]That's two separate series there...actually, I'd like to read that book![/footnote] were both massively popular while being rather different from most of their contempories...until they got ripped off by them, of course.

 

[Zontar]

Notably, though, Harry Potter and the Hunger Games[footnote]That's two separate series there...actually, I'd like to read that book![/footnote] were both massively popular while being rather different from most of their contempories...until they got ripped off by them, of course.

While you have a point regarding Harry Potter, Hunger Games not so much. Even ignoring the original inspiration for it [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_Royale] the idea of taking a bunch of kids, or just people in general, and forcing them into a death game for entertainment in a distopic world wasn't anything new even then.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Notably, though, Harry Potter and the Hunger Games[footnote]That's two separate series there...actually, I'd like to read that book![/footnote] were both massively popular while being rather different from most of their contempories...until they got ripped off by them, of course.

While you have a point regarding Harry Potter, Hunger Games not so much. Even ignoring the original inspiration for it [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_Royale] the idea of taking a bunch of kids, or just people in general, and forcing them into a death game for entertainment in a distopic world wasn't anything new even then.

Oh sure, not totally original by any stretch, but noticeable different from its contemporary rivals, which, IIRC, were mostly ripping off Harry Potter or Twilight or both.

The Hunger Games also went pretty deep into social issues, a lot more than most in the genre. So, naturally they made sure to erase all that boring stuff from the movies.

 

[DefunctTheory]

Notably, though, Harry Potter and the Hunger Games[footnote]That's two separate series there...actually, I'd like to read that book![/footnote] were both massively popular while being rather different from most of their contempories...until they got ripped off by them, of course.

While you have a point regarding Harry Potter, Hunger Games not so much. Even ignoring the original inspiration for it [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_Royale] the idea of taking a bunch of kids, or just people in general, and forcing them into a death game for entertainment in a distopic world wasn't anything new even then.

/cough


(Yah, I know, I know, not really adding anything and I know you were already alluding to it. I'm just having some fun, darn it. And legolambs deserves more views).

 

[DudeistBelieve]

...ok question?

What the fuck is a Bro Dude? Is that like a Dude Bro? Like a Fuckboi? I'm seriously asking. I'm getting too fucking old for the internet just making up all these god damn insults for people

 

[EternallyBored]

I want to know what the OP means by "people like him"? Are we talking about people into NASCAR and sports, or specifically people that hate nerdy stuff and people into said stuff?

I swear, sometimes it feels like the internet is some portal to an alternate dimension where Revenge of the Nerds is a documentary. Dude bros are often into nerdy shit too, especially nowadays, but even as far back as the 90's, I remember my D&D group in high school at one point or another included such people as: a weightlifting ROTC jock, a girl on the swim team, 1 guy on the band, 1 guy on the baseball team, one of our football team linebackers, 1 brother sister duo in metal shop, etc. About the only social group I think we didn't draw from was the cheerleading team, but even then we still had the sister of one of our friends who was a cheerleader and really into the legend of Zelda games. It didn't change much in college, the frat guys I hung out with were often gamers or into sci-fi or fantasy to at least some extent, I specifically remember debating Lord of the Rings with one guy before switching to talk about NASCAR and the Giants within about 30 minutes. I spent last saturday talking to a night club waitress about playing Pokemon in the 90's while the bar manager played Pokemon Go with us. Generalizations are often woefully inadequate to describe the full spectrum of human behavior.

That said, there are some douchebags out there that care way too much about what other people are into, whether its people that think Video games are for kids and losers, people that think Fantasy is for basement dwelling virgins, or even geeks that won't shut up about sports fans being brainless jocks, theres douchebags of all stripes out there. Should those people be exposed to the media they dislike? In the interest of actually being informed about the things they complain about, and maybe learn to at least understand those they claim to hate, then yeah, its probably a good idea, if only so their hatred isn't just empty reaction to something they don't understand. Not much point in forcing the issue though, if some jackass wants to hate video games and think adults are losers for playing them, its not my job to try and force them to try it.

 

[Erttheking]

Snip

*Double cough*

http://horrorcultfilms.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Dr2000-poster.jpg

So yeah, it turns out we humans are an unimaginative lot.

 

[MeatMachine]

The only people who should get into sci-fi and fantasy are excellent writers with vivid imaginations. Nothing else matters to me.

It's a shame that sci-fi and fantasy are genres currently infested with terrible writers of no imagination, many of whom carry their ideological baggage into their work.

 

[Vigormortis]

This is Phil Chalmers.

Who?

He goes to schools to talk about teen killers. He says violent video games and movies are creating a generation of killers.

Mmm, kay. Sounds like an ignorant fellow, but this sort of mentality is nothing ne...

He enjoys MMA, the UFC, NFL Football....

AAAHHAHAahhahahaaahahhaaa... What a douche bag.

You heard it hear, folks. Virtual characters, i.e. not real, committing acts of not-real violence will turn kids into killers, whereas watching real organized events wherein real people commit real acts of violence on each other is good, wholesome family fun.

He appears on Fox News.

You didn't need to say this. His hypocritical douchebaggery pretty much guarantees that he'd appear on Fox News, and probably with regularity.

Oh, and it's 'Dude Bro', not bro dude. If we're gonna pigeon-hole an entire demographic of people under a dismissive term we may as well get the damn vernacular right.

But anyway, to answer your question: Why would we want to force people to enjoy something they don't enjoy? Should we also force non-sports fans to watch sporting events? Should we force those who dislike sitcoms to sit and watch Two and a Half Men?

If someone doesn't enjoy a particular genre of entertainment, it's no ones job to force them to change their minds. That just makes them the assholes.

You want to know what science fiction needs? More imagination. More variety. More hope. Sci-fi right now is completely inundated by a deluge of stories with teen melodrama and/or grim-dark post-apocalypses at their core, each painted with a thin veneer of 'sci-fi' trappings. Most are uninspired and barely qualify as 'science fiction'.

What we need is an injection of new, creative talent. We need our next Asimov, Chrichton, Roddenberry, Vinge, Wells, etc. We need our sci-fi writers to weave fantastic tales that inspire future scientists, not drown them in a sense of hopelessness.

Snip

*Double cough*

http://horrorcultfilms.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Dr2000-poster.jpg

So yeah, it turns out we humans are an unimaginative lot.

*ahem*

[sub]I tried triple coughing, but there was blood. Should I be concerned?[/sub]

 

[briankoontz]

The OP seems to be using the term "broaden one's horizons" as a euphemism for "becoming a better person", with the implication that "bro dudes" are a disease and perhaps sci fi and fantasy could be part of a cure.

I don't think that self-hating (or being influenced by the hatred or disapproval of others) is a good context in which to broaden one's horizons as a cure. Broadening one's horizons occurs *gradually* and naturally - like learning a new language it happens slowly, carefully, with a lot of effort, and always within the frame of reference of the experiencing individual.

Despite various elements of pop culture that love stereotypical reductivism, there's no sense in judging people based on their taste in media. This kind of argument is old, with some people saying that listening to Beethoven makes you a better person or playing chess makes you a better person. None of that is *necessarily* true, and exposing a random person or a "bro dude" to sci fi and fantasy has no better effect on them than exposing you to whatever kind of media you've previously avoided has on you.

Media exposure is organic, and people typically explore new media content when they are *ready* for it, assuming it's accessible. So the best we can do is maintain the availability of media to as many people as possible. Poverty or any other barrier to *accessing* media are the real problematic diseases, not the media choices that people make.

 

[Chimpzy_v1legacy]

*ahem*

[sub]I tried triple coughing, but there was blood. Should I be concerned?[/sub]

*Quadruple ahem*

Ok, ancient times weren't distopic (though arguably they were by modern standards), but gladiators fit the trope, or at least those who were sentenced to death in the arena do[footnote]Some were volunteers, were more analogous to modern professional athletes, and enjoyed respect, admiration and lives of relative luxury.[/footnote]. And the Romans were most likely not the first to put on blood games.

Also, the Battle Royale novel was published in 1999. In a contest of who did 'forcing people into a death game for entertainment in a distopic world' first, both Death Race 2000 (1975) and The Running Man (1987) handily beat it. Battle Royale is the closest match to The Hunger Games though.

 

[Vigormortis]

Also, the Battle Royale novel was published in 1999. In a contest of who did 'forcing people into a death game for entertainment in a distopic world' first, both Death Race 2000 (1975) and The Running Man (1987) handily beat it. Battle Royale is the closest match to The Hunger Games though.

I was aware. I was just adding another example of the same story being used well before Hunger Games.

 

[Hawki]

So, let's see...

-"Video games and TV cause violence and death in of themselves."

-People still follow the mantra of "stop liking what I don't like" and/or "those dirty casuals are ruining what I like!"

-Labels were, are, and always will be reductive, whether you use words like "bro" or "nerd." Same reason why I refuse to use those terms to describe myself anymore than "gamer" (I'll start using that term when you get a label for every other pastime that exists).

-The Hunger Games is still believed to have ripped off Battle Royale, despite the concept existing before both long before either work, despite the fact that Collins has given her own account for how she came up with the concept which passes any credulity test, despite the fact that Battle Royale is based more on Japanese inter-generational tension while Hunger Games is an allagory to the Roman Empire...yep, get the lawyers.

-Things were so much better in the old days because...well, that's just a repeat of the Hugo Award "controversy" and the Sad Puppies, so yeah, not touching that.

Well, that was informative.