Should muslim women remove their veil in stores?

[Mr Scott]

No. It's their religion. Deal with it.

My religion requires that I wear a ski mask and carry a shotgun at all times, especially in banks. People should put themselves and their businesses at risk to conform with my ridiculous religion.

*facepalm*

Woaah, your rebuttal skills astound me.

Yes, I am ignoring the context, because cultural and religious tolerance are closer to my heart than retail security.

Why thank you, Mr Scott! You have perfectly summed up my feelings regarding this topic. Now, would you prefer one muffin or two? They're boysenberry, I'm afraid.

I love when people ignore my argument entirely and instead resort to personal attacks. It really shows a unique understanding of the matter at hand.

Why should we have to be put at risk for their rules? People like to throw around the word tolerance...but what are you tolerating? You're tolerating, neigh condoning a practice that commands all women dress like penguins.

Why yes, I guess I did give you an underhanded personal attack. I'm sorry. But I'm not changing my opinion for you to prove a point that disregards a culture for security. I'm fairly certain I'm not condoning it, because I like to see people's faces rather than fabric. But I'm tolerating it, like I do with everything else.

Why? Why is her right to wear the face mask greater than his right to refuse service to people based on conditions of choice.

Tolerance is a very important thing that this world needs more of, but you don't need to tolerate a person's choices just because they're founded in culture. You tolerate their race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, etc, because it's not their fault, and there's nothing wrong with it. Actions however, can be positive and negative, as long as we're both working in a framework where good and evil exist.

I'm sorry freind, but good and evil do not exist. Either do subjective and objective, right or wrong, fair or unfair. There is what's beneficial to a single being, and in some cases certain things are beneficial to more than one person.

Think about it like this: perhaps the Association supposed that the greatest benefit to their business would come from the extra security that come with banning of the hijab. Howver if they were to allow the extra customer who would be ALLOWED to wear hijab would the extra bounty make up for the extremely limited cases in which they are robbed by "Muslim women," as supposed to say an actual Muslim woman SHOPPING AT A STORE, where you BUY THINGS!

 

[mosinmatt]

Yes they should.
All cover (veils, hats, scarves, etc etc) should be removed in doors. Exceptions would be places like lobbies.

 

[Jeronus]

First, they start with veils. Next, leave all bags and purses at the check station in front of the store. Lastly, they will make us wear theftproof clothes just to go shopping for groceries. I mean what will happened to our personal freedoms if we allow them to continue infringing on the beliefs and rights as human beings.

 

[mosinmatt]

First, they start with veils. Next, leave all bags and purses at the check station in front of the store. Lastly, they will make us wear theftproof clothes just to go shopping for groceries. I mean what will happened to our personal freedoms if we allow them to continue infringing on the beliefs and rights as human beings.

It is more an issue of manners. cover (anything worn on the head) is to be removed when in a building.

 

[Social Pariah]

The law should apply equally to all, it must be objective and steadfast, not tailored to everyone's personal beliefs, but a solid line for all to stay behind for the greater good of society and it's inhabitants. The law cannot afford to be at the whim of religion or "beliefs", it must not be made so fickle and limp as to provide exemption or special dispensation for those with certain perceptions of the world, for that in itself is discrimination.

 

[Jeronus]

First, they start with veils. Next, leave all bags and purses at the check station in front of the store. Lastly, they will make us wear theftproof clothes just to go shopping for groceries. I mean what will happened to our personal freedoms if we allow them to continue infringing on the beliefs and rights as human beings.

It is more an issue of manners. cover (anything worn on the head) is to be removed when in a building.

Shouldn't a person's religious beliefs take precedence over proper etiquette? I mean manners have their place in society but when you try to use them to stop someone from expressing their religious beliefs. You risk offending that person and an entire culture. Manners are there just so we don't offend people so it kind of defeats itself.

 

[TehCookie]

Should muslim women remove their veil in stores?
Should nudist be able to walk around nude?

No, religion or not it does not give you an excuse to break rules (even if their not official laws).

 

[ZacQuickSilver]

Should muslim women remove their veil in stores?
Should nudist be able to walk around nude?

No, religion or not it does not give you an excuse to break rules (even if their not official laws).

Actually, not true: several religions have won the right to practice their religion in violation of specific laws in the US:

Voodoo and Santeria practitioners can kill animals in a ritually correct but legally inhumane way
Several religions are allowed to smoke Marijuana in a religious context
Some Native American church (forget which one) can use Peyote (an illegal hallucinogen)

1st Amendment.



I also want to point out that identifying the race, and occasionally a distinct facial feature, is all the average person can get from the face, and a skilled make-up artist can confuse even that (fake wart, for example). With this, you can identify a religion, and with it a likely race as well.

 

[Random Argument Man]

I never got the whole "cover everything on a woman" with the muslims. Hiding a woman's beauty is a bit sad in my view. However, If it's their choices and they're willing to follow a rule. I shall not condemn someone for a choice of free will.

 

[Labyrinth]

I would just like to wage in two cents here, having skimmed over the topic.

As a metal head, I tend to wear a lot of cuffs, big boots, etc. That is my choice. Should I be required to take off steel capped boots and spiked cuffs because they can be used as weapons?

That said, I don't agree with women being required to wear veils. However, if they wish to, that's their call.

 

[Jaythulhu]

I don't remove my hat in shopping centres and no one tries to make me, so why should muslim women have to remove their scarf?

By the way, current australian stats on number of crimes where an islamic headscarf has been used as a disguise: Zero.

 

[Azeban]

No. It's their religion. Deal with it.

My religion requires that I wear a ski mask and carry a shotgun at all times, especially in banks. People should put themselves and their businesses at risk to conform with my ridiculous religion.

*facepalm*

Woaah, your rebuttal skills astound me.

Yes, I am ignoring the context, because cultural and religious tolerance are closer to my heart than retail security.

Why thank you, Mr Scott! You have perfectly summed up my feelings regarding this topic. Now, would you prefer one muffin or two? They're boysenberry, I'm afraid.

I love when people ignore my argument entirely and instead resort to personal attacks. It really shows a unique understanding of the matter at hand.

Why should we have to be put at risk for their rules? People like to throw around the word tolerance...but what are you tolerating? You're tolerating, neigh condoning a practice that commands all women dress like penguins.

Why yes, I guess I did give you an underhanded personal attack. I'm sorry. But I'm not changing my opinion for you to prove a point that disregards a culture for security. I'm fairly certain I'm not condoning it, because I like to see people's faces rather than fabric. But I'm tolerating it, like I do with everything else.

Why? Why is her right to wear the face mask greater than his right to refuse service to people based on conditions of choice.

Tolerance is a very important thing that this world needs more of, but you don't need to tolerate a person's choices just because they're founded in culture. You tolerate their race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, etc, because it's not their fault, and there's nothing wrong with it. Actions however, can be positive and negative, as long as we're both working in a framework where good and evil exist.

I'm sorry freind, but good and evil do not exist. Either do subjective and objective, right or wrong, fair or unfair. There is what's beneficial to a single being, and in some cases certain things are beneficial to more than one person.

Think about it like this: perhaps the Association supposed that the greatest benefit to their business would come from the extra security that come with banning of the hijab. Howver if they were to allow the extra customer who would be ALLOWED to wear hijab would the extra bounty make up for the extremely limited cases in which they are robbed by "Muslim women," as supposed to say an actual Muslim woman SHOPPING AT A STORE, where you BUY THINGS!

That's why I said working in a good/evil framework. Most people don't agree with us about the nonexistence of evil.

 

[Azeban]

I would just like to wage in two cents here, having skimmed over the topic.

As a metal head, I tend to wear a lot of cuffs, big boots, etc. That is my choice. Should I be required to take off steel capped boots and spiked cuffs because they can be used as weapons?

That said, I don't agree with women being required to wear veils. However, if they wish to, that's their call.

If you're in a guy's store, he can kick you out if he wants to. If a guy feels like alienating his customers and losing their business, let him.

 

[Silver]

I would just like to wage in two cents here, having skimmed over the topic.

As a metal head, I tend to wear a lot of cuffs, big boots, etc. That is my choice. Should I be required to take off steel capped boots and spiked cuffs because they can be used as weapons?

That said, I don't agree with women being required to wear veils. However, if they wish to, that's their call.

That's another matter entirely, if you wear things that can be used as weapons, and walk into a store with your face completely covered, then I'd start to get worried.

 

[VoleurdeThym]

I'd like to ask, have there been any instances of criminal activity performed by women in full hijab?

I like this point, but what's to stop anyone from dressing up and shoplifting stuff under all the clothing.
The state has no right to interfere with the religious practice in question, or the store keeper's right to run their business as they see fit.

Anyway- I hold the same view on this as I do on many religious things.
Let the shops decide independently if they want to let women with veils shop or not. I can just about promise that it wont last long. More people than you think will boycott them.

 

[mosinmatt]

First, they start with veils. Next, leave all bags and purses at the check station in front of the store. Lastly, they will make us wear theftproof clothes just to go shopping for groceries. I mean what will happened to our personal freedoms if we allow them to continue infringing on the beliefs and rights as human beings.

It is more an issue of manners. cover (anything worn on the head) is to be removed when in a building.

Shouldn't a person's religious beliefs take precedence over proper etiquette? I mean manners have their place in society but when you try to use them to stop someone from expressing their religious beliefs. You risk offending that person and an entire culture. Manners are there just so we don't offend people so it kind of defeats itself.

No, fuck religious beliefs. You can parade your beliefs on your own property, or outside on public property. Just cause you are from another country doesn't mean everyone has to tread water around you. You fucking adapt to THAT culture. But hell, Muslims already have their own court system in the UK. So I think this law will go the reverse, and EVERYONE will HAVE TO wear a headscarf.

 

[sequio]

What happens if every store becomes like that for them?

You make a business plan with a mission statement with set goals and make the business yourself. That's how nearly every business got started, when someone or a group of people said "i could do better" and actually did it instead of just complaining about it.

 

[ForrestDixon]

No. It's their religion. Deal with it.

Thats so true!!!!! Every one is in a tizzy because of 9/11. Not everyone the wears a viel is a Terrorist! Its sad because you could have a terrorist sitting right next to you on a roller coaster and not even know it beacuse if look back through history you will see that Terrorists come from ALL different cultures and backrounds.

 

[SenseOfTumour]

I admit to being lazy and not reading thru the previous 9 pages in full...

My first point is...anyone who doesn't show me their face, I feel less comfortable around, and less trusting to. It's simple human nature that if you can't read facial expressions and body language, you can't feel as 'close' to that person, not a religious issue, but a simple human one.

But as a theory...whats to stop some nasty chav dressing up like that and going shoplifting?
We're not saying 'muslims are dishonest and we want to watch what you're doing', we're saying, anyone who is concealing their face could be concealing anyone'.

Also, just to lighten it up, wasn't it Ed Byrne who said 'Fair enough, I understand its a religious thing, but what I don't get is when you see them taking tourist photos of each other in the full garb, I mean ' aww can we take it again...I think I blinked'.

Also, is there anything to stop me writing a holy book saying I need to wear a balaclava and carry a replica shotgun whenever I visit a bank? Of course I'm not a believer really, of any religion, tho I'm not one of the scary hardcore atheists either, I'm open to making concessions, but basic law and security shouldn't be changed, as said above, we're not going to be allowed to wear a bikini in Iran, so at the very least, we should be allowed to ask them to show their face. I'd even be happy if it was 'escort the woman in question off the shopfloor, and show themselves to one person. As a typical english person, I can't help but think that would be far worse than just showing their face.

Perhaps...just a camera at the front of the store...they show their face to the camera and no people, then we've got the evidence if needed ,and its not seen by anyone if there's no reason to access the CCTV footage.

I'm FAIRLY sure there's nothing written about cameras in the Koran.

Also, I place most of the blame at the PC lot, it seems a lot of the time its some person who's not even a muslim, trying to get 'rights' for other people.

It's like when the creator of Dilbert did a tame cartoon strip relating to nuns, he got SO many complaints, not one from a nun, priest, or the like, but hundreds from people 'offended on behalf of nuns', its the Brand / Ross thing, people hear about something and decided to be offended.