Should organ donation be manditory?

[The_root_of_all_evil]

You need to register to vote, to drive, to go to school.

Which are rights, not freedom.

And AFAIK, I never had to register for school. My parents may have registered me, but it was a long time ago.

Anyway. Last post for some time. I've got work to do.

 

[Aris Khandr]

Belgium does have an opt-out rather than an opt-in system, so without a card saying you're not a doner your organs will be used to save lives. In my opinion, that's how things should be.

I'm not really comfortable with the idea that I am, by default, spare parts because I forgot to carry my purse with me and something happened.

 

[nuba km]

the gm

GM?

sorry about saying gm I mean OP (spending a lot of time in the RP section of the escapist).

does say that he means a opt-out system so every person would have the chance to opt out,

Apart from those unable to - or those guilt-tripped/delayed into not doing so.

it will be not any different form people being delayed from opting in except it costs lives rather then saves them.

and to answer your question, yes, why? because they are dead so they can't exactly judge me or feel hurt by what I am doing. I mean people could say they will bury you (or what ever you want to happen to your corpse) but they could end up stuffing it and using it has a coat hanger, you wouldn't know and it wouldn't affect you.

I'm pretty sure that their friends wouldn't be too happy using it to hang their coats on though.

That isn't part of the argument that I was making which was about the fact that it doesn't matter to a person what happens to their corpse when they die, as they will be dead.

when ever I think of organ donation I think of this:

pros:
people will get a chance to live

cons:
...?

 

[DanielDeFig]

I agree, if you really don't want to donate your organs (for whatever reason), then you should need to go out of your way (tick a box to op-out) to make sure your wishes are fulfilled. While people who couldn't care less, should cause for a larger Sample of available organs, rather than a smaller one (if they couldn't care less they won't go out of their way to tick a box. So why should that box be "opt-in"?).

I read the Edit, but I still think it needs to be said: obviously it shouldn't be mandatory. If it becomes the default then we will have more than enough organs from poeple who want to donate/don't care either way, for people who don't want to give up their organs (despite being dead)to have the option to opt-out.

 

[TheEndlessSleep]

Crushed.

Giving me a way out afterwards is still indebting me, and doesn't breed goodwill.

How is that still indebting you? You are free; nobody will make you come back.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

sorry about saying gm I mean OP (spending a lot of time in the RP section of the escapist).

I was wondering...yeah I know I said I'd do some work. After this I promise.

it doesn't matter to a person what happens to their corpse when they die, as they will be dead.

I'm pretty sure there's a lot of religions that would disagree. And even if you do think they suck, it's not really right to railroad over them.

Equally my point was that the family may still have consideration about the corpse.

when ever I think of organ donation I think of this:

pros:
people will get a chance to live

cons:
...?

And that's good. And why I have a donor card.

But it's still my choice, not my duty. That's where my argument lies.

 

[dvd_72]

Belgium does have an opt-out rather than an opt-in system, so without a card saying you're not a doner your organs will be used to save lives. In my opinion, that's how things should be.

I'm not really comfortable with the idea that I am, by default, spare parts because I forgot to carry my purse with me and something happened.

You do realise it's to save lives right? It's not like they're using you to fix cars or something. Besides, you don't need them after you're dead right?

Ah well, to each thier own.

 

[nuba km]

sorry about saying gm I mean OP (spending a lot of time in the RP section of the escapist).

I was wondering...yeah I know I said I'd do some work. After this I promise.

it doesn't matter to a person what happens to their corpse when they die, as they will be dead.

I'm pretty sure there's a lot of religions that would disagree. And even if you do think they suck, it's not really right to railroad over them.

Equally my point was that the family may still have consideration about the corpse.

when ever I think of organ donation I think of this:

pros:
people will get a chance to live

cons:
...?

And that's good. And why I have a donor card.

But it's still my choice, not my duty. That's where my argument lies.

maybe the system could but certain religions on a opt-in system so if some one is registered under their system they have to opt-in rather then to opt-out this would stop it from affecting peoples faith.

also In your other argument you keep call it as a invasion of right, but once you are dead you don't have rights, you merely rely on the honour system. Everything else you own is given to someone or the government after you die why not your organs? (and could you please tell me why you feel it is an invasion of rights so I am not just doing guess work)

 

[brunt32]

To all of you saying you should donate your organs. I wish to know how many of you have taken the first step and donated blood. As I'm going to use your argument against you and say that you reproduce more blood anyhow so it would be selfish for you not to donate it.

 

[OaKleIgHy]

Yep...certainly agree with the opt-out rather than opt-in idea...

 

[Sylvine]

To all of you saying you should donate your organs. I wish to know how many of you have taken the first step and donated blood. As I'm going to use your argument against you and say that you reproduce more blood anyhow so it would be selfish for you not to donate it.

*shrugg* Sure it's selfish, but it's still more reasonable not to want to donate blood than not to want to donate organs. Seeing as You're alive when donating blood, and the procedure requires time spent and is not exactly pleasant. Many people are also extremely uneasy around needles.

~Sylv

 

[Sylvine]

Edit: Huh. Double post, for some reason. Sorry.

~Sylv

 

[Aris Khandr]

Belgium does have an opt-out rather than an opt-in system, so without a card saying you're not a doner your organs will be used to save lives. In my opinion, that's how things should be.

I'm not really comfortable with the idea that I am, by default, spare parts because I forgot to carry my purse with me and something happened.

You do realise it's to save lives right? It's not like they're using you to fix cars or something. Besides, you don't need them after you're dead right?

Ah well, to each thier own.

I am not comfortable with the idea of being sliced up for parts, dead or not. It rubs me the wrong way. If you are fine with it, that's fine too. I'm not.

 

[Newby_Newb]

I do not want organ donation to be mandatory, because doctors will not try as hard to save you if something were to happen to you.

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

I think what the main problem people have is that an ?opt-out? implies that some entity has a right to determine what happens to them by default upon death.

The ?opt-in? system means that you get to determine, by default, what happens to you when you die.

The ?Opt-out? system means that someone else has more of a right by default then you do.

I don?t 100% agree with this logic, but I can see its points.

I hope people are organ donors, but I don?t demand that they do

 

[rutger5000]

making organ donation an opt out thing is not plausible. imagine those who forget to sign when they renew their licence, there would be lawsuits from families of people who knew their lost loved ones had their organs taken.

but i don't believe this will be an issue after another 5 or so years. they are already able to create stem cells from adult blood cells, so we will be able to soon create new organs from the persons own D.N.A. reducing the rejection. this would not be a fix for cases where organs are needed immediately, but those who are on waiting lists for years can get replacements that are better suited to their bodies.

science makes life better, just gotta get the ethics and religious views out of the way.

People who don't bother to fill in the form, don't care enough to have the right to decide. It's as simple as that. There should be a nationwide campaign so that everybody knows what's up and opting out should be easy (short internet form, but of course also other possible ways). If these requiments are met, then there is now proper reason why you didn't op out while you don't want to be an organ donor.
I do think htis issue will be relevant for the next few decades. It is not about what science is capable of, but about what people are comfortable science being capable of. If there hadn't been such an outcry about cloning-research, then the technology would have been available (a) decade(s) ago. And public support is likely to stay extremly low for the next few decades.
All we can hope for is that China is going to start a revolution in it, and that the rest of the world will pick up.

cuz china is the first place considering cloning anything... no actually Japan is in the lead here. and don't give science that much credit. there is no way cloning could be done years ago when they have only made it possible recently, and the cycle of the clone with animals creates a newborn.

and about the short internet form, the problem is getting the information out there. did you know that the average american doesn't watch the news. mass email is not practical because the internet is an entire society spanning many nations and collecting the necessary info on email addresses is illegal. besides, i doubt anyone reads every piece of spam crap they get in their inbox. same goes with mass snail mail. do you read everything that comes in? if you do, then you are one of few.

no, your ideas are terrible

Are you doubting the abability of a developed nation to reach each and every one of it's citizens? Come on this is the 21th century , you can't possibly believe that the U.S. government isn't capable of that.
I didn't mention internet as a way to get everyone informed (but of course it would help), but as an easy way to op out. Of course there should be more ways to op out.
As for science not being capable of cloning, you're right. Science isn't capable of it, but I honestly believe they would be more then 20 years ago if it wasn't for the whole public outcry.

 

[ShadowKatt]

After reading a rather significant chunk of this thread I'm starting to wonder what everyone's political affiliations are when they tell people that organ donation should be mandatory(MAYBE Opt-out). I swear I've heard this arguement before...

"You have too much money!"
"You don't need that much money! No one does!"
"You should give that money back to the PEOPLE! The poor need it more than you!"
"Since you won't give it willingly, the government needs to TAKE it from you!"

Really? How about this discussion...

"You have all those healthy organs!"
"Once you're dead you don't need those organs! No one needs them after they're dead!"
"You should donate your organs! The sick people need those organs more than you do!"
"Since you won't donate them voluntarily, the government needs to make it mandatory to TAKE them from you!"

Strikingly similar, eh? Is this really what we're arguing for? Is this a new form of socialism in this country, where humans are nothing more than commodities no more valuable than the parts that make up their person? Like a Chevrolet is just the sum of its parts? Heart = Fuel Pump, Kidney = Fuel Filter, Bone Marrow = Hydralic Shock, etc etc ad nauseum infinatus. So once you're dead, you cease to be a "person" and become a "thing".

The thinking in this thread has given me the insight to contemplate several very serious issues:

#1 - I am NOT an organ donor. Part of this is because I don't want to be cut up and parted out like a ford or honda, and part of this is to spite all those people that seem to think they have precidence over MY body, living or dead. Like inheritance, when I die my body belongs to my FAMILY, NOT the state. Therefore I will be making a will and putting in it that I am NOT an organ donor and that anyone that robs my body for organs, my estate will be liquidated and used in a legal fund to see that said body snatchers do prison time for human organ trafficing and grave robbing.

#2 - If this is the way the country is going to go(Because someday, the community on this website is going to be the community in this country. Some people on this site are going to be politicians, judges, lawyers, etc), I think it's about time to look into leaving the country. I won't live somewhere where I'm looked at as an object or crop to be harvested when the time is ripe(ie, when I expire). This thread has given some truely frightening insight into the mentality of the people of this up and coming generation, and I won't be a part of it.

 

[Sylvine]

Strikingly similar, eh?

Not at all. They're just worded similarly, but it's a totally different pair of shoes.

I dunno about Your country, but I live in a secular one. That means, at least in theory, a strict separation of church and state. As such, yes, legally, once You die, You cease to be a person. You don't become a thing, because there's no "You" anymore. You are gone, Your body remains. Shame to let it go to waste.

It's a pretty typical conservative stance You have there, with all of it's flaws. I resist change because I resent it on a personal level. Logic what? Reason who?

Presumed consent does not lead to suddenly turning into a walking spare parts depository. Jesus christ, it's not even like there would be that much demand for it. We're not talking about live organ harvestation here. No physician will be waiting eagerly for Your death just so he can try to save another patient. If there was net gain in it, You might have a case, there would probably be someone who figures "eh, kill one guy, save 5, that's a good total". But it doesn't work like that. You'll probably have maybe one lucky guy on the list who could use one of Your organs at the time of Your death, and it's not like we can preserve dead organs to be usable for a long period of time.

And if You seriously expect that Your Country is only trying to exploit You as much as it can, You don't have to wait for a legislature change like that to happen. You should get out as fast as You can. There are millions of ways for Your government to harm You while YOu're alive; You should probably be concerned about those before thinking about what happens to Your body after Your death.

~Sylv

 

[ShadowKatt]

Strikingly similar, eh?

Not at all. They're just worded similarly, but it's a totally different pair of shoes.

I dunno about Your country, but I live in a secular one. That means, at least in theory, a strict separation of church and state. As such, yes, legally, once You die, You cease to be a person. You don't become a thing, because there's no "You" anymore. You are gone, Your body remains. Shame to let it go to waste.

It's a pretty typical conservative stance You have there, with all of it's flaws. I resist change because I resent it on a personal level. Logic what? Reason who?

Presumed consent does not lead to suddenly turning into a walking spare parts depository. Jesus christ, it's not even like there would be that much demand for it. We're not talking about live organ harvestation here. No physician will be waiting eagerly for Your death just so he can try to save another patient. If there was net gain in it, You might have a case, there would probably be someone who figures "eh, kill one guy, save 5, that's a good total". But it doesn't work like that. You'll probably have maybe one lucky guy on the list who could use one of Your organs at the time of Your death, and it's not like we can preserve dead organs to be usable for a long period of time.

And if You seriously expect that Your Country is only trying to exploit You as much as it can, You don't have to wait for a legislature change like that to happen. You should get out as fast as You can. There are millions of ways for Your government to harm You while YOu're alive; You should probably be concerned about those before thinking about what happens to Your body after Your death.

~Sylv

On a certain level, I agree with you. It is a shame to let it go to waste. But the moment people start telling me that I HAVE to have my body vivisected and harvest for parts and that should I choose not to that I should be FORCED into it after my death is the moment that I say "No". I will not be forced into anything because someone presumes that it is morally superior to do it.

"Presumed consent does not lead to suddenly turning into a walking spare parts depository. Jesus christ, it's not even like there would be that much demand for it."

Actually that's the OPPOSITE of the idea I was getting from this thread. Organs are in so much need, there are so many people that need them that we need to make Every Single Person's body upon death available for organ harvesting. So yes, it is the same thing as turning into a spare parts repository. One you die, someone's going to come and strip you like an old car for anything still useful.

And I'm well aware that there are a few thousand ways for my government(US, since I didn't specify before) to harm me, and I resist all of them. However, I'm one person against one of the most powerful and corrupt governments in the world, there's not a lot of change I can effect. That doesn't stop me from speaking out against something when I feel it is blatantly wrong, like this mandatory organ donation idea.

 

[Murray Kitson]

making organ donation an opt out thing is not plausible. imagine those who forget to sign when they renew their licence, there would be lawsuits from families of people who knew their lost loved ones had their organs taken.

but i don't believe this will be an issue after another 5 or so years. they are already able to create stem cells from adult blood cells, so we will be able to soon create new organs from the persons own D.N.A. reducing the rejection. this would not be a fix for cases where organs are needed immediately, but those who are on waiting lists for years can get replacements that are better suited to their bodies.

science makes life better, just gotta get the ethics and religious views out of the way.

People who don't bother to fill in the form, don't care enough to have the right to decide. It's as simple as that. There should be a nationwide campaign so that everybody knows what's up and opting out should be easy (short internet form, but of course also other possible ways). If these requiments are met, then there is now proper reason why you didn't op out while you don't want to be an organ donor.
I do think htis issue will be relevant for the next few decades. It is not about what science is capable of, but about what people are comfortable science being capable of. If there hadn't been such an outcry about cloning-research, then the technology would have been available (a) decade(s) ago. And public support is likely to stay extremly low for the next few decades.
All we can hope for is that China is going to start a revolution in it, and that the rest of the world will pick up.

cuz china is the first place considering cloning anything... no actually Japan is in the lead here. and don't give science that much credit. there is no way cloning could be done years ago when they have only made it possible recently, and the cycle of the clone with animals creates a newborn.

and about the short internet form, the problem is getting the information out there. did you know that the average american doesn't watch the news. mass email is not practical because the internet is an entire society spanning many nations and collecting the necessary info on email addresses is illegal. besides, i doubt anyone reads every piece of spam crap they get in their inbox. same goes with mass snail mail. do you read everything that comes in? if you do, then you are one of few.

no, your ideas are terrible

Are you doubting the abability of a developed nation to reach each and every one of it's citizens? Come on this is the 21th century , you can't possibly believe that the U.S. government isn't capable of that.
I didn't mention internet as a way to get everyone informed (but of course it would help), but as an easy way to op out. Of course there should be more ways to op out.
As for science not being capable of cloning, you're right. Science isn't capable of it, but I honestly believe they would be more then 20 years ago if it wasn't for the whole public outcry.

check the american literacy rate.... it aint that great. hell, there are thousands who have no idea what does on outside their home town.