Should there be criteria to permit people to buy a four by four?

[BiscuitTrouser]

This stems from a car accident my friend got into the other day. Its ok, hes fine, and so is the other driver. However his car? Front half kinda... torn off. He was hit by a landrover. The momentum and strength of the landrover meant that although the landrover is basically pristine now, (paint scratches at the most) my friends car is totalled. The driver? A mum driving her one kid to school. This happened in a school car park. I feel sorry for my friend, both drivers were at fault here; my friend didnt check his blind spot and the four by four driver didnt look before pulling out.

This made me think about four by four drivers. Why do people buy them. The adverts always depict someone scaling a glacier or trawling a desert and i have to wonder WHY would you buy one for a ROAD when its designed AND advertised as an off road vehical. Unless you actually plan on scaling one its a waste of money, makes the roads more dangerous for everyone except you, and wastes oil like a beast. Whenever i see one on the road now i react as you would if you saw someone driving a snow mobile. Why not? Its exactly the same in my mind.

Also every four by four ad reminds me of this:

Do you think it would be fair to basically, refuse to sell four by fours to young mums who physically cant stand driving to school in anything less than a vehical made to traverse the icy taundra of the frozon north? Oil is a precious resource. Why waste it on these idiots who feel that they deserve such a rediculous and uneccessary machine in order to transport themselves. Its wastefull selfish and stupid.

EDIT: Oil is used for plastics remember? The less we use in cars the more we get to use polyester clothes and plastic bags. I'd rather have it turned into clothes and items we can use for ages than burning a usefull resource pointlessly. And seriously... " its not low enough yet to bother rationing it".... how about we ration it right away so we have a relaible source and regulation of a finite substance? So we dont rush and use it all at once?

 

[Craorach]

There should be a different classification of drivers liscence for these vehicles.

I'm not sure how it works in other countries, but in Australia you get a liscence for a car, but need specialist training and another liscence depending on the type of larger vehicle you want to drive. The same is true of Motorcycles, where you need a special liscence for anything over 250cc.

Apparenrly, however, anyone can just buy either a high performance car designed for racing... or a four by four designed for off road and several feet higher off the ground than a normal car.. and drive away in it.

Both high performance, or four by four, vehicles are very different beasts from normal family cars, and not designed for the same uses. Four by Fours inconvenience other road uers by reducing both the visibility of others and their drivers. As a motorcycle rider I know for a fact that, if I'm between two four by fours in close traffic..either can see me.

 

[Jordi]

For the "oil is a precious resource"-argument, I think that's quite simply countered: these drivers are paying for it, right? And if you think that the oil is actually more valuable/precious than they are paying, then I think that could easily be solved by increasing prices.
The same goes for pollution and things like that: the government should tax environmentally unfriendly vehicles more than others. This should be priced in such a way that it actually becomes environmentally friendly (or at least neutral) to drive such a car because of all of the shit you can do for the environment with all of that money.

It's a little harder to deal with the fact that these cars are unsafe for everybody but yourself. I guess you could think up some kind of complicated system where you take into account the hazard factor of the cars involved in an accident in order to determine who has to pay what. That way the financial risk is mostly on the people who decided that they want to drive such a risky (for others) car. Of course, that doesn't really help you when you get killed by one.

I guess for me, it is all about the money. If you make it expensive enough to drive one, you could probably undo a lot of the bad things that these cars cost. I'm just not really in favor of banning people from purchasing and using certain items.

 

[SirDoom]

Because they're very reliable. If a vehicle can take driving through the desert or up a mountain, it can take a few scuffs on the road. There should be no additional fee for driving a 4-wheel-drive car that is, in every other way, exactly the same as another street legal car.

Interesting story- I drive a small pickup truck. People have run into the back of me 3 times (2 while I was sitting at a red light, one while in a parking space. I partly attribute this to people in the south not knowing how to drive when there is the tiniest bit of ice on the road, but that's not the point.)

The first time, my back bumper was badly damaged, and my tailpipe still rattles because of that collision, even after supposedly being "fixed". After that, I put a heavy-duty trailer hitch on the back of my truck when I was hauling something small, and just left it on afterward. That little metal ball sticks out just a tiny bit from the back of my truck, but in the next 2 collisions, it completely stopped the car that ran into me (or backed into me, in the case of the parking space) from doing any damage to my vehicle. It tore the hell out of the front of the car that rammed into me at the traffic light though. In the end, my truck took no damage, and that car was far more damaged than it would have been had I not had it.

So, should trailer hitches be banned as well?


(I <3 Range Rovers. I hope to own one, one day.)

 

[Smooth Operator]

Why do people buy them? Because of to the ye olde pedestrian "bigger is better" logic.

If people want to pay the extra money for the car and gas, then they can have it and everyone is free to choose their own.
If you actually want to help with anything then educate people, banning stuff only makes them want it more.

 

[Duol]

Environmental arguments are just silly. Oil is not a precious resource. 40 years ago people were touting about how the oil is going to run out, we're still far away from that point. Yes, oil prices will go up, in part because there is less of it, but also because the vast quantities that remain are harder and more expensive to drill. As the price goes up we will seek alternatives, which we have already found, hydrogen fuel cells.

Eco taxes are stupid, they have been crippling western economies for decades.

On the safety factor: People are liable for the damage they cause with vehicles. There is no need to tax rubbish like this. Either a car is safe enough for the roads or it isn't.
Special licenses are just a pain in the ass, what if you live in an area that is occasionally snowy, so you rent a 4X4 for such occasions? Or going on a special trip? Borrowing a car from someone? Just seems like more hassle than it's worth. Cars are safer than they ever have been, at least it seems that way here in Europe.

 

[Thaluikhain]

The idea that they are safer for you isn't exactly true, it depends of what you hit.

They are better if you are going to run over pedestrians, say, but hit a tree or telegraph post..."wrapped around" sounds like hyperbole, but it's not nearly as much as you'd expect.

 

[Legit101]

................

 

[kickassfrog]

If you want to buy a four by four, you're not allowed to own one.
I would only allow them to people who install a camera to their car for a week so you can see all the off roading they do in it.

Honestly, if you want to feel safe in a car, buy an APC or something.

 

[Von Strimmer]

No but they should sure as fuck be banned from school.

I hate the useless bloody things. Especially when they pull up next to you when your trying to turn and you cant see over them.

They are dangerous and should be banned completely from city centres and heavely built up areas WHERE THEY ARE NOT NEEDED!

* I feel I should add I am from Australia, Brisbane to be precise where there is no need for 4 wheelers... IN BUILT UP AREAS

 

[Steppin Razor]

They're big and expensive (a status symbol if ever there was one) and if you happen to be involved in an accident with another car, you're more likely to come out of it in one piece by sheer virtue of you being twice as heavy as the other car. This really appeals to parents who use said larger car to transport the kids places. As for being designed for off road, well, most of the ones bought by parents are luxury models that you really wouldn't want to take off road.

 

[Ruwrak]

4x4's If you want to get your children safely to school, by ignoring the other children on the sidwalk.

There are so many accidents or near accidents here in the netherlands with moms, 4x4 and pedestrian kids =/

 

[Crenelate]

4X4's are the bane of my driving life behind pre-booked taxis. especially in London where roads tend to be quite narrow in suburban areas and parking spaces are few they are just the most ridiculous vehicle ever. I know civil liberties and whatnot will never allow this to happen but I don't think you should be allowed a great hulk of a machine unless you actually need it (ie. live in the country, drive up mountains) and yes there would be little to no way of policing that, but in a perfect world... It just gets my goat when these idiotic mothers block up the roads with their Chelsea Tractors driving their one brat to school.

 

[Link Kadeshi]

Speaking as a motorcyclist, I must state my opinion. Do you know how many idiots in these over-sized crapheaps have literally tried to run me over? I'm sorry, this light is red, that doesn't mean I drive through it. My favorite is when they tailgate me, almost rear ending me forcing me to speed, then pass me in my own lane (While I'm already going 10-15 mph[16-24 kph] over the limit), flip me off and cut me off, almost forcing me off the road. People are jerks, and those things make them feel empowered.

 

[Crenelate]

Well, it's like the kid in school who wears a massive backpack that's slams into everyone and blocks everyone's way when they're trying to get around them in the corridors. They're free to wear whatever backpack they want but it'd be more considerate to everyone and more in keeping with a busy environment to wear a smaller one that doesn't get in peoples way.
And maybe they shouldn't pop out so many books.

 

[Grouchy Imp_v1legacy]

Because if you live somewhere like

Spoiler: this

where half the roads are only dirt tracks, it's nice to be able to move about. I don't know where you live fella, but there are places city folks call 'rural areas' where having tarmac on the roads is optional, not mandatory. Now - as far as deepest darkest Chelsea goes, I can see your point. I see no reason why people living in cities could need a 4x4. But out here in the sticks they're pretty much a necessity.

EDIT - Also, you do realise that owning a 4x4 means you pay £500 a year more road tax than other drivers, right? On top of that, you mention oil as a valuable resource, well 9/10 4x4 are diesel powered, making them more economical than your run-of-the-mill petrol car.

 

[b3nn3tt]

ITT: Someone trying to tell someone else what they can and can't buy based on their own personal preferences and not those of the person in question.

Two things, OP.

One: She has a right to buy whatever the fuck she wants. Why should she give up her Land Rover because YOU don't think it's appropriate? Nobody made you king. You have no more a right to tell her what she can and can't drive as I do.

Two: She would have done that in a car too. The problem is not what she was driving, but how she was driving it. Oblivious dipshits are a hazard whether they're in a Hummer or a Smart Fortwo.
tl;dr: Stop trying to force others to drive what you think they should drive because of your friend's car getting trashed. If she can afford the fuel she has every right to drive that Land Rover.

This rather eloquently sums up my feelings on the matter. People can drive whatever they want to drive, other people's feelings on the matter are irrelevant. There are plenty of examples of bad driving in specific cars that I've seen, but I wouldn't presume to suggest that people shouldn't be allowed to drive those cars.

 

[SecretsOfMoon]

I'm assuming this thread is actually about SUVs and "urban off-roaders" as they are largely called around where I live, rather than cars with a specific type of drivetrain, considering that quite a lot of those cars are actually front-drive. While for the usual "soccer mom" or somesuch driving an actual offroad vehicle is utterly pointless and they'd be better off with something else, I'd be damned for betraying all my petrol-head brethren by even considering something like requiring a permit from a government bureau of this-and-that just to buy a certain type of car. That'd be stupid.

 

[Batou667]

Of course there should be criteria. Some kind of questionnaire at the car dealer's, for example.

- Are you white and middle class?
- Are you an obnoxious ****?
- Are you American?
- Are you a hyper-protective mother with an out-of-control nesting instinct?
- Do you honestly believe petrol is an infinite resource?
- Does the entire road system exist for your exclusive use?

If you tick three or more of the above, here's your new car!