Should women be able to fight on the frontlines?

[belderiver]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_the_military#Female_allowance_to_serve_active_duty

Mostly, people on this thread are just talking out their ass. There's been a lot of "common sense" knowledge that's already been disproven - take a look at cases of flight combat and sniping, for instance - and even if that weren't the case, you guys are aware that they no longer wrestle on the battlefield very often, right? Right.

 

[Dense_Electric]

Once again, there does not have to be all sorts of separate facilities. See above.

That's ridiculous. You put male and female teenagers/young adults together without boundaries, you're not going to have an army--you're going to have an orgy. Aside from all kinds of societal/religious friction (yeah, just because you don't agree with it doesn't make it go away), you cannot seriously expect to have boys and girls sleep, crap, shower together and have it work as efficiently as a normal unit would. This is real life, not Starship Troopers.

Sexual harassment still remains a core issue, and there still is the risk of rape when captured--a risk far greater than a man would face.

It's whatever the individuals within the unit make it to be, and if they can't control their basic hormones they really have no business being in the military in the first place. We should be filling our barracks with intelligent, cool-headed, controlled individuals, not the jocks from Douche Bag High School. Seriously, if you can't stop yourself from fucking someone, I shudder to think how you're going to react when you come under fire. Crap your pants and run away screaming?

 

[sergnb]

You won't see a "no" in this thread, if it is not a joke that involves kitchens.

Yes, of course they should be allowed, if they met the requirements. Nothing in the organism of a woman prevents her from shooting an enemy. And just like the don't ask don't tell bullshit, NO, THEY WON'T FALL IN LOVE WITH A FREAKING MUSLIM. Holy Crap america, you are one of the few countries that still has this shit going on, what's wrong with you?

 

[Canid117]

If they pass all the tests and their training then sure.

 

[Ryokai]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_the_military#Female_allowance_to_serve_active_duty

Mostly, people on this thread are just talking out their ass. There's been a lot of "common sense" knowledge that's already been disproven - take a look at cases of flight combat and sniping, for instance - and even if that weren't the case, you guys are aware that they no longer wrestle on the battlefield very often, right? Right.

Wrestling on the battlefield ain't what we meant. 4 months into training I'm expected to go on 30 mile marches with 50 pounds of gear on me--and that's without the body armor, grenades, and extra LAW missiles (which they're adding in a few weeks). The amount of women who can train to that level is exceedingly low.

 

[artanis_neravar]

Once again, there does not have to be all sorts of separate facilities. See above.

That's ridiculous. You put male and female teenagers/young adults together without boundaries, you're not going to have an army--you're going to have an orgy. Aside from all kinds of societal/religious friction (yeah, just because you don't agree with it doesn't make it go away), you cannot seriously expect to have boys and girls sleep, crap, shower together and have it work as efficiently as a normal unit would. This is real life, not Starship Troopers.

Sexual harassment still remains a core issue, and there still is the risk of rape when captured--a risk far greater than a man would face.

It's whatever the individuals within the unit make it to be, and if they can't control their basic hormones they really have no business being in the military in the first place. We should be filling our barracks with intelligent, cool-headed, controlled individuals, not the jocks from Douche Bag High School. Seriously, if you can't stop yourself from fucking someone, I shudder to think how you're going to react when you come under fire. Crap your pants and run away screaming?

Agreed if soldiers can't keep it in their pants around fellow American soldiers, people they spend every day working besides and people they need to trust with their lives, then how can they be trusted not to rape the woman of the other side?

 

[Fetzenfisch]

The way of thinking in the average male, considering most troops are more than average, isnt as far in terms of equality nowadays. If we can someday accept everyone (thats passed a certain kind of qualification) is equal it would work.
I do agree though that every woman that enlists should have the same duties and risks as a man does. For they can already exploit all the advantages of military service, without the highest risks.

 

[Ryokai]

If you can't stop yourself from fucking someone, I shudder to think how you're going to react when you come under fire. Crap your pants and run away screaming?

I know a lot of soldiers who can take getting shot at without a sweat and function flawlessly under pressure but can't control their dicks to save their lives--and others who are perfect gentlemen who panic under stress--they're two totally unrelated qualities. Besides, I'm not talking about outright rape--I'm talking about sexual awkwardness, competition with women and to impress them, sexual harassment--the rape is mostly connected to what happens if a women gets captured.

 

[Dense_Electric]

Oh look, its this thread again.Before I get quoted a gazillion times on "some women can handle it". Yeah, some, not all. The army tends to not want to waste time finding out. Its rare.

The army tends to not waste it's time find - what? What the fuck is basic training then?

EDIT: But yes, I stand by what I've said. Strength, muscle mass, lung capacity, speed, whatever, are individual traits. "On average" or "typically" doesn't apply when you're talking about an individual person. If someone can do it, there's no reason they shouldn't be allowed to. If they can't, don't let them. It's as simple as that.

Now do you see how I did not once mention gender in that whole thing there?

Ok, fine, lets look at it from a different angle.

Right now camps only have to deal with men.

Bring females into the equation. Instantly they have to have a womens area for sleeping, showering, etc.

And with my original point, basic training still costs the army money. But I realise women still do basic training to get into their support roles.

However, there is training AFTER basic training ya'know.

I agree if someone can do it, they should be able to, but logistically, not physically, its too much trouble. K? k.

Your argument was that they don't waste time weeding out who is physically fit and who isn't, which is exactly what basic training does. Doesn't matter if it's all male, all female, or mixed, literally the only thing that would have to be changed is to equalize standards for infantry.

However, if you want to talk about logistics - no, there would not have to be all sorts of separate amenities. If we're going to break down these ridiculous social notions about gender roles, surely we can break down the ridiculous taboo surrounding sexuality. Oh, someone saw some different crotch-luggage in the shower, ah, oh no, it's the end of the world, how will we ever function? You know, it's like, yeah, humans have different reproductive anatomy, whoopdy-fucking-do. It exists, and the light bouncing off of it and into your eyes can't possibly hurt you.

Hey, thats what you say.

You however, are not the hordes of media who will give the military a stupidly hard time over how they're "forcing" women to bathe with men. How they're "tempting rape" by having them sleep in the same quarters.

Christ, its a PR nightmare. If gender roles weren't judged anymore, then fine, you'd be right. But they're not, so women aren't allowed on the front lines. End of.

Stop living in a fantasy world, people in the real world are stupid. That includes me and you, everyone is going to freak out in some big way and generally, armies do not need that.

Edit:

You know what, I don't even know why i'm arguing. You're clearly set in your ways. Don't quote me anymore, I can't be bothered to continue what will become a shouting match

(Waits for inevitable last quote)

Hey man, you argue on the internet, people are going to reply. Don't like it, don't respond - but I will.

Now of course we still have silly little things like gender roles, but the fact that they still exist doesn't mean we can't do something to end them. Of course I get the argument that the military isn't the best place to be trying to do that, but once again, someone who can't control themselves in the barracks is going to do even worse on the battlefield.

On that subject, perhaps you cannot control your base urges, but I can assure you that I most certainly can. And if someone is going to be fighting on the front-lines, we'd better pray that they can as well. I'll put it another way - if you can't control your sexual urges, how are you going to control your fear? It's not fantasy, it's very much reality - those without control should not be fighting to begin with.

If you can't stop yourself from fucking someone, I shudder to think how you're going to react when you come under fire. Crap your pants and run away screaming?

I know a lot of soldiers who can take getting shot at without a sweat and function flawlessly under pressure but can't control their dicks to save their lives--and others who are perfect gentlemen who panic under stress--they're two totally unrelated qualities.

Oh, of course those are two separate parts of the brain, and as such are not interchangeable. But all controllable urges are ultimately a slave to willpower, and if someone can't exercise that, once again, why are they there?

 

[Javarock]

Once again, there does not have to be all sorts of separate facilities. See above.

That's ridiculous. You put male and female teenagers/young adults together without boundaries, you're not going to have an army--you're going to have an orgy. Aside from all kinds of societal/religious friction (yeah, just because you don't agree with it doesn't make it go away), you cannot seriously expect to have boys and girls sleep, crap, shower together and have it work as efficiently as a normal unit would. This is real life, not Starship Troopers.

Sexual harassment still remains a core issue, and there still is the risk of rape when captured--a risk far greater than a man would face.

It's whatever the individuals within the unit make it to be, and if they can't control their basic hormones they really have no business being in the military in the first place. We should be filling our barracks with intelligent, cool-headed, controlled individuals, not the jocks from Douche Bag High School. Seriously, if you can't stop yourself from fucking someone, I shudder to think how you're going to react when you come under fire. Crap your pants and run away screaming?

However what if I want my milltary to be filled with the jocks and duche bag's from highschool? I mean if they were asses they can spend a few years in the army protecting my freedom.

Alright putting that illfounded not serious point aside

Some countrys don't have the level of equalism as others. And dureign wartime solider get taken as prisoners and its true the female would have a genrally higher chance of getting raped then a male and I would not wish that on anyone.

 

[Dense_Electric]

Some countrys don't have the level of equalism as others. And dureign wartime solider get taken as prisoners and its true the female would have a genrally higher chance of getting raped then a male and I would not wish that on anyone.

There are other forms of torture besides rape, some of them far worse, that can and are used on anybody.

 

[artanis_neravar]

Hey, thats what you say.

You however, are not the hordes of media who will give the military a stupidly hard time over how they're "forcing" women to bathe with men. How they're "tempting rape" by having them sleep in the same quarters.

Christ, its a PR nightmare. If gender roles weren't judged anymore, then fine, you'd be right. But they're not, so women aren't allowed on the front lines. End of.

Stop living in a fantasy world, people in the real world are stupid. That includes me and you, everyone is going to freak out in some big way and generally, armies do not need that.

Edit:

You know what, I don't even know why i'm arguing. You're clearly set in your ways. Don't quote me anymore, I can't be bothered to continue what will become a shouting match

(Waits for inevitable last quote)

Speak for yourself, I am not stupid. Also If you don't want people to quote you don't post, and defiantly don't tell people not to quote you.

 

[Dogstile]

Oh look, its this thread again.Before I get quoted a gazillion times on "some women can handle it". Yeah, some, not all. The army tends to not want to waste time finding out. Its rare.

The army tends to not waste it's time find - what? What the fuck is basic training then?

EDIT: But yes, I stand by what I've said. Strength, muscle mass, lung capacity, speed, whatever, are individual traits. "On average" or "typically" doesn't apply when you're talking about an individual person. If someone can do it, there's no reason they shouldn't be allowed to. If they can't, don't let them. It's as simple as that.

Now do you see how I did not once mention gender in that whole thing there?

Ok, fine, lets look at it from a different angle.

Right now camps only have to deal with men.

Bring females into the equation. Instantly they have to have a womens area for sleeping, showering, etc.

And with my original point, basic training still costs the army money. But I realise women still do basic training to get into their support roles.

However, there is training AFTER basic training ya'know.

I agree if someone can do it, they should be able to, but logistically, not physically, its too much trouble. K? k.

Your argument was that they don't waste time weeding out who is physically fit and who isn't, which is exactly what basic training does. Doesn't matter if it's all male, all female, or mixed, literally the only thing that would have to be changed is to equalize standards for infantry.

However, if you want to talk about logistics - no, there would not have to be all sorts of separate amenities. If we're going to break down these ridiculous social notions about gender roles, surely we can break down the ridiculous taboo surrounding sexuality. Oh, someone saw some different crotch-luggage in the shower, ah, oh no, it's the end of the world, how will we ever function? You know, it's like, yeah, humans have different reproductive anatomy, whoopdy-fucking-do. It exists, and the light bouncing off of it and into your eyes can't possibly hurt you.

Hey, thats what you say.

You however, are not the hordes of media who will give the military a stupidly hard time over how they're "forcing" women to bathe with men. How they're "tempting rape" by having them sleep in the same quarters.

Christ, its a PR nightmare. If gender roles weren't judged anymore, then fine, you'd be right. But they're not, so women aren't allowed on the front lines. End of.

Stop living in a fantasy world, people in the real world are stupid. That includes me and you, everyone is going to freak out in some big way and generally, armies do not need that.

Edit:

You know what, I don't even know why i'm arguing. You're clearly set in your ways. Don't quote me anymore, I can't be bothered to continue what will become a shouting match

(Waits for inevitable last quote)

Hey man, you argue on the internet, people are going to reply. Don't like it, don't respond - but I will.

Now of course we still have silly little things like gender roles, but the fact that they still exist doesn't mean we can't do something to end them. Of course I get the argument that the military isn't the best place to be trying to do that, but once again, someone who can't control themselves in the barracks is going to do even worse on the battlefield.

On that subject, perhaps you cannot control your base urges, but I can assure you that I most certainly can. And if someone is going to be fighting on the front-lines, we'd better pray that they can as well. I'll put it another way - if you can't control your sexual urges, how are you going to control your fear? It's not fantasy, it's very much reality - those without control should not be fighting to begin with.

If you can't stop yourself from fucking someone, I shudder to think how you're going to react when you come under fire. Crap your pants and run away screaming?

I know a lot of soldiers who can take getting shot at without a sweat and function flawlessly under pressure but can't control their dicks to save their lives--and others who are perfect gentlemen who panic under stress--they're two totally unrelated qualities.

Oh, of course those are two separate parts of the brain, and as such are not interchangeable. But all controllable urges are ultimately a slave to willpower, and if someone can't exercise that, once again, why are they there?

Cool, except soldiers do get scared on the front lines. Knew you'd do another post. But whatever makes you feel better about yourself.

 

[Ladette]

If they meet the requirements and wish to put themselves in that situation then sure. I assume they know the risks that they're more likely to face than their male counter parts before signing up anyways.

If there are male soldiers who can't work with women or keep their dicks under control then I don't trust them to represent my country anyways.

Fuck gender roles, they're just holding us back at this point.

 

[Kenami]

I believe they should and don't really have any views on why they shouldn't.

 

[Blatherscythe]

I see no objection. Guns are one hell of an equalizer, and as long as she can keep up she can go right ahead. It's no differant than having a male with a small frame. My only issue with it is it seems to be that we are entering coutries where women are treated as property and the enemy loves to take prisoners. That sounds like a nightmare to most women.

Besides, the whole rape idea is out of control. Most guys won't rape a person, and the first to try any funny buisness after they all go to sleep will probably get the shit beaten out of him by all the other guys, then court marshalled.

 

[Ryokai]

Oh, of course those are two separate parts of the brain, and as such are not interchangeable. But all controllable urges are ultimately a slave to willpower, and if someone can't exercise that, once again, why are they there?

They can be taught to function in combat (it's a lot of a soldier's training just to function on the battlefield)--can they be taught to erase a lifetime of biological and cultural subconcious behavior? It doesn't have to be outright sexual harassment--even just effecting behavior, i.e., making guys more show-offy, refusal to work with women, broken cohesion--Even if they can, you've suddenly thrown in months of conditioning added to their training, all for the sake of the few women who can make the grade.

 

[l3o2828]

I say that if they want they should be able to do it.
But regardless of that, War is stupid and unnecessary.