Should women be able to fight on the frontlines?

[AmrasCalmacil]

There's a hell of a lot of naivety in this thread. I can't repress my urges to say that.

 

[Ryokai]

I say that if they want they should be able to do it.
But regardless of that, War is stupid and unnecessary.

A whole 'nother topic, my friend--suffice to say, when someone wants to kill you or force you to obey his laws and his ideas, or steal your land, or whatever, war suddenly becomes pretty damn necessary.

 

[Dense_Electric]

Cool, except soldiers do get scared on the front lines. Knew you'd do another post. But whatever makes you feel better about yourself.

As I knew you would, but at least I didn't act like I wasn't going to reply but then did anyway just because I had to have the last word. But to use your own words, "whatever makes you feel better about yourself."

And to counter your other point, there's a big difference between being scared but calm and being scared and acting batshit crazy then doing something stupid. Guess which one will keep you alive under fire?

EDIT: And in a twist of irony I've actually grown bored with this discussion, and will now bid you all adieu. I'll leave it to speak for itself when you reply just to get the last word in then acting all smug about it. Later!

 

[Kahunaburger]

If they meet the physical requirements, why not? On average, women are smaller than men, but there is considerable overlap.

 

[Dogstile]

Cool, except soldiers do get scared on the front lines. Knew you'd do another post. But whatever makes you feel better about yourself.

As I knew you would, but at least I didn't act like I wasn't going to reply but then did anyway just because I had to have the last word. But to use your own words, "whatever makes you feel better about yourself."

And to counter your other point, there's a big difference between being scared but calm and being scared and acting batshit crazy then doing something stupid. Guess which one will keep you alive under fire?

Oh for christ sake.

How about this. Look up old news story's. Decide for yourself. You gain nothing from messaging me except reinforcing the fact that you're a troll. Bugger off, i've asked nicely already.
(hey, see that, didn't even counter you point, I don't need to!)

 

[artanis_neravar]

Cool, except soldiers do get scared on the front lines. Knew you'd do another post. But whatever makes you feel better about yourself.

Just had to get that last word in didn't you?
Everyone will be scared under fire, soldiers just know how to channel that fear into something useful.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

I think that women should be able to do what they want in the military as long as they can go through the exact same training and exercises as men and succeed.

Anything less is putting lives in danger.

 

[artanis_neravar]

Cool, except soldiers do get scared on the front lines. Knew you'd do another post. But whatever makes you feel better about yourself.

As I knew you would, but at least I didn't act like I wasn't going to reply but then did anyway just because I had to have the last word. But to use your own words, "whatever makes you feel better about yourself."

And to counter your other point, there's a big difference between being scared but calm and being scared and acting batshit crazy then doing something stupid. Guess which one will keep you alive under fire?

Oh for christ sake.

How about this. Look up old news story's. Decide for yourself. You gain nothing from messaging me except reinforcing the fact that you're a troll. Bugger off, i've asked nicely already.
(hey, see that, didn't even counter you point, I don't need to!)

Calling someone else a troll is in and of itself trolling.
And I find it interesting that you keep coming back after your claims that you are done here

 

[Wicky_42]

As a soldier in the IDF, (Go Givati Brigades!), I've heard a lot about this from the Karakal girls (the only infantry unit that allows girls in). The fact is, the average girl has smaller lungs and much less muscle mass than a man--frankly, they can't keep up with men in combat, giving them a huge disadvantage.

Obviously, there are exceptions to the rule--however, not enough of them to justify the expense and hassle of a frontline female combat unit--which is why even the Karakal infantry is always kept back from the frontlines during war.

Ooh, a case study! Good contribution.

My general opinion on this subject is that if a female can perform up to the same standards as required of the current male infantry there's little issue in principle, though there would have to be sufficient numbers to warrant all the additional facilities and complications that would arise from the extra gender. Of course, there may be other front-line tasks that females are better suited for other than rifleman - snipers, maybe? Leadership roles?

IMO, it basically comes down to whether there's an actual benefit to taking on female troops or not, not whether 'they should be coddled and protected'.

 

[xerounlimited]

Simple answer: if they want to fight on the front lines, why should we not let them?

 

[Dogstile]

Cool, except soldiers do get scared on the front lines. Knew you'd do another post. But whatever makes you feel better about yourself.

Just had to get that last word in didn't you?
Everyone will be scared under fire, soldiers just know how to channel that fear into something useful.

I'm sat here watching a film. I'm no longer discussing the debate, i'm now asking people to stop filling up my inbox.

So i'll ask you as well, stop filling up my inbox with useless messages.

 

[DefinitelyPsychotic]

I don't see a problem with it, except for two things:

One, relationships could become of it, and we all know that a battlefield is not a place to propose...

Two, what if a woman is clearing out a house in enemy territory, and there is a male soldier inside of the building? They are too close to shoot each other, so they proceed to fight in hand-to-hand combat. Who do you think would win? I understand that women in the military will be physically fit, but would they be fit enough to take down a full grown man, possibly twice her body-weight?

 

[artanis_neravar]

Cool, except soldiers do get scared on the front lines. Knew you'd do another post. But whatever makes you feel better about yourself.

Just had to get that last word in didn't you?
Everyone will be scared under fire, soldiers just know how to channel that fear into something useful.

I'm sat here watching a film. I'm no longer discussing the debate, i'm now asking people to stop filling up my inbox.

So i'll ask you as well, stop filling up my inbox with useless messages.

If you stop responding to my messages I would have nothing left to quote. Also if you aren't going to contribute anything to the discussion would you kindly refrain from posting.

OT: As to the claims that woman will be raped if captured there are so many more tortures that can be done to both males and females that are so much worse than just being raped.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

I know a woman passed the training for the SAS during a televised competition. They weren't best pleased about it and it caused alot of problems politically.

Alot of military men I know say it's unfair to them to expect them to control their protective instincts on top of everything else. I guess I can understand that.

 

[JMeganSnow]

I know I wouldn't put a woman on my team if I could do it over again, but only because the guys on my team wouldn't know how to handle it and I might have died because they were too busy having a dick measuring contest or something.

It has been my personal experience that this sort of thing is not actually a problem. Now, I haven't been in the military, but I've worked a physically complex, DISGUSTING, demanding job that in most places is very male-only. (Visitors would comment on how many women we had on the floor, we were about 50/50 whereas almost everywhere else I heard of, there's no women working the processing floor.) There weren't really issues between the men and the women. (And some of the women were hot.) The women tended to dominate the men, however--overbearingly so. On different shifts, different dynamics would emerge.

It really depends on the personalities of the people involved and their ages/experience levels. If you're talking about combat teams of people in their early 20's, yeah there will probably be problems. (But you'll likely get problems in groups of just guys in their 20's.) If you're talking about teams of people in their mid 30's and older, likely no real problems.

Speaking as a woman, however, I would not want to have anything to do with combat operations until and unless I could get some really good hormones that would turn ye olde time of the month OFF.

 

[Ryokai]

As a soldier in the IDF, (Go Givati Brigades!), I've heard a lot about this from the Karakal girls (the only infantry unit that allows girls in). The fact is, the average girl has smaller lungs and much less muscle mass than a man--frankly, they can't keep up with men in combat, giving them a huge disadvantage.

Obviously, there are exceptions to the rule--however, not enough of them to justify the expense and hassle of a frontline female combat unit--which is why even the Karakal infantry is always kept back from the frontlines during war.

Ooh, a case study! Good contribution.

My general opinion on this subject is that if a female can perform up to the same standards as required of the current male infantry there's little issue in principle, though there would have to be sufficient numbers to warrant all the additional facilities and complications that would arise from the extra gender. Of course, there may be other front-line tasks that females are better suited for other than rifleman - snipers, maybe? Leadership roles?

IMO, it basically comes down to whether there's an actual benefit to taking on female troops or not, not whether 'they should be coddled and protected'.

In my opinion, no. While in principle, people of both genders, (and of all religions and sexualities and everything but that's a different argument) should have equal opportunity, in practice it just doesn't work out. The amount of females capable of being effective soldiers simply does not justify the major risks and large logistical problems they would present. And clearly, the Israeli central command agrees with me, because believe me, those dudes will do ANYTHING (so long as it's within moral boundaries) to increase effectiveness and efficiency even one iota.

Of course, my argument might be less valid as regards to the US military--Israeli infantry and commando training is far harder and more intense, as would be expected of an army outgunned and outnumbered in every major war by 25 to 1 and having a fraction of the soldiers the US has. For all I know, the amount of girls who can cut it as soldiers is far higher in the States.

 

[artanis_neravar]

I don't see a problem with it, except for two things:

One, relationships could become of it, and we all know that a battlefield is not a place to propose...

Two, what if a woman is clearing out a house in enemy territory, and there is a male soldier inside of the building? They are too close to shoot each other, so they proceed to fight in hand-to-hand combat. Who do you think would win? I understand that woman in the military will be physically fit, but would they be fit enough to take down a full grown man, possibly twice her body-weight?

Depends who has the better training, and how well armored the guy is, a swift shot to the crotch will give the woman the upper had she needs, also agility will generally win over brute strength (My opinion I could be wrong)

 

[MinchMan]

All that it really boils down to is two things. One, can they physically handle it? I know a lot of athletic women that could definitely handle boot camp, and kick anyone's buttocks if they didn't like them, or were harassed.
The second one is, to me, the more important and obvious one. The matter of rape. This does of course have an extremely low chance of happening in camp, because the perpetrator will get dishonorably discharged and punished in a heart beat. But nothing stops the enemy.
I think that that is the major issue. At the heart of it, that ALWAYS shows up. Now I'm not sure if that is just men trying to have that avoided or something, but yeah.

my own view? If the women want to do it, can handle the physical ramifications (training, the heat or climate of the battlefield etc) then why not?

 

[Weskerbot3000]

"blessed art thou who fight in the name in the emperor, for honor knows no gender, nor house, nor creed."

But seriously let them, i've seen some women act manlier than most guys in my neighborhood

 

[Dogstile]

Cool, except soldiers do get scared on the front lines. Knew you'd do another post. But whatever makes you feel better about yourself.

Just had to get that last word in didn't you?
Everyone will be scared under fire, soldiers just know how to channel that fear into something useful.

I'm sat here watching a film. I'm no longer discussing the debate, i'm now asking people to stop filling up my inbox.

So i'll ask you as well, stop filling up my inbox with useless messages.

If you stop responding to my messages I would have nothing left to quote. Also if you aren't going to contribute anything to the discussion would you kindly refrain from posting.

OT: As to the claims that woman will be raped if captured there are so many more tortures that can be done to both males and females that are so much worse than just being raped.

Fine, this will be my last post (OMG). Enjoy, and next time you decide to quote me more than once to get my attention, at the very least try to actually have it form a discussion. Happy trolling