"Shut up because I'm a soldier!"

[CrimsonBlaze]

This could actually be applied with just about anyone who serves the government or is a member of the judicial system. Although we picture them as champions of justice and freedom, many are often prone to let those titles go to their head and begin to believe that they can justify anything they do or completely ignore the system because they are part of it.

Seriously some of these corrupt individuals need to realize that at the end of the day, they are still human, and every bit as flawed as the people that they face against on the opposing front. They need to acknowledge their faults, leave them at the door, and do their job right.

 

[Belaam]

That's because if a movie depicts the army it has to pass a military board and get approval otherwise it wont be allowed in theaters. If it doesn't present the military in a positive light, it doesn't get approval.

Not necessarily. Only if they want military assistance in making the film. If people are wearing their uniforms correctly and you're getting long, lingering shots of US military as totally awesome (looking at you, Bruckheimer) it's military-approved. If they're in Marine fatigues with Navy insignia, not so much.

If they kiss up enough, they can even get military funding for the movie. The old animated version of Animal Farm was largely funded by the CIA because they thought it would help the anti-communist movement.

 

[Nouw]

Damn it I thought this thread was going to discuss a quote from Starship Troopers. "Soldier, shut up and soldier!"

On topic, a soldier can only pull that card if it is his field of expertise, combat and military-related stuff. Let's say you think that X battle ended in X way. But he says it ended Y way because he was in it. It's safe to say that he's right. Other things like your example don't work.

 

[manaman]

This is just another skewed story. It's presented from one side as that person remembers it.

I don't doubt that the person worked military experience into the situation, but I highly doubt it played out exactly like that, like some kind of trump card with no other relevance to the discussion.

Really it seems the OP and the vet where arguing about something neither of them had any right to be arguing about except from a purely philosophical viewpoint, as neither seemed to have any idea what they where actually talking about.

No, actually the OP was quite right to point out the problem with everyone being millionaires. Incredibly obvious reason why the OP is right: Who is going to be making bread for less than something like $1000 when they're a millionaire?

The goverment spending that money on people rather then corporations is not the same as giving the money away. Yes there is a problem with simply handing a million dollars to everyone, but giving it to corporations in an effort to increase lending and preventing job loss (neither of which has ever proved effective in the past) was a horrendous waste of money.

 

[Midnight Crossroads]

America is pretty strange about their military. How they always are so proud of their soldiers that protect their country (while actually causing more people to become a potential threat to it)
Also in movies, the American military has way to much of a positive reputation.

That's because if a movie depicts the army it has to pass a military board and get approval otherwise it wont be allowed in theaters. If it doesn't present the military in a positive light, it doesn't get approval.

My god! Really? I have no words ... but this explains a lot.

No, he's full of shit. The only thing the military does is loan out its equipment to movies under the condition that they depict the US military positively.

 

[Benny Blanco]

I think the thing the OP brought up is valid but have never really encountered it in a specifically military context. Obviously, I'm prepared to take the word of any professional on their field of expertise at higher value, but I don't even think these are necessarily things that people will be 100% right on.

If all professional soldiers were right about every military matter, every unit in every branch of every country's military would do exactly the same thing. Which they don't.

Experts in most fields disagree about their specialist fields. That's how academic discourse works.

 

[gorfias]

This is going to be a touchy subject since we Americans idolize soldiers as much as we do. So I'm going to establish right off the bat that I respect soldiers for what they done and the sacrifices they've made. This wont stop most of the knee jerk reaction I'm sure this will get but maybe some of it.

That being said, I don't think being a soldier automatically means their opinions are right. But they bring up their combat history as if that makes all their opinions right.

I was recently arguing with a very right wing old man who stated "If Obama had given us all that bail out money every American would be a millionaire right now!"

And I said "But if we were all millionaires then a load of bread would cost a thousand dollars."

"I'm a soldier and I had three tours in Vietnam and that's not how it works."

Long awkward pause because, I too, respect soldiers and I wondered if I should pursue this or just let it go.... But fuck this guy. I don't care if you're Superman, stupidity is stupidity. So I said "It's called INFLATION. The more money we have the more things cost! If everyone had ten times more money then everything would COST ten times more. It's basic economics."

The argument went on and skewed off into other subjects like how he thought the rich shouldn't be taxed at all because they give us jobs and we should honor them for that etc etc etc. But the sticking point for me was... He brought up his combat history repeatedly as if killing people in Vietnam made his opinion more correct than mine. And he got very... VERY upset that no matter how many times he brought up that he was a soldier, I wouldn't back down.

Honestly, he's not the only one. I've seen soldiers bring up that they are soldiers, their tours, etc many times as a way to establish their own credibility.

If I used my job I'd say "I'm a janitor of two years and I clean shit off walls put there by ignorant slob tourists and my opinion of economic reform is this!" See how ridiculous that sounded? That's what I feel when they try to pull their combat history into a discussion that has nothing to do with combat.

But they can do it not get called out on it.

Ann Coulter often claims the left does this, not by stating, "I"m a soldier" but that, "I'm a victim" and we're all supposed to shut off our brains and shut our mouths: someone with better credentials has spoken and we just better shut our mouths.

I think posting cred is helpful (ie as a dentist, I think flouride in the water has been good for people's teeth, etc.) and we should listen to them for what the statements are worth. But of course, you have, as any debater does, an obligation to weigh the statement and cred for its value (as a baker, I find think that cable TV regulation goes too far).

 

[Viirin]

He brought up his combat history repeatedly as if killing people in Vietnam made his opinion more correct than mine.

Come now, we're all gamers here. His opinions might not be more right than yours, but since he killed more people than you, he IS higher level.

 

[Snoozer]

America is pretty strange about their military. How they always are so proud of their soldiers that protect their country (while actually causing more people to become a potential threat to it)
Also in movies, the American military has way to much of a positive reputation.

That's because if a movie depicts the army it has to pass a military board and get approval otherwise it wont be allowed in theaters. If it doesn't present the military in a positive light, it doesn't get approval.

My god! Really? I have no words ... but this explains a lot.

No, he's full of shit. The only thing the military does is loan out its equipment to movies under the condition that they depict the US military positively.

Ahh ok, I think they do sponsor some video games as well. I still don't really like that, but "board approval" would be simple cencorship.

 

[templargunman]

If the $700 billion in bailout money was given out to every one of the 300 million American's, each American would get about $2300. The fact of the matter with being a solider is that you do get a lot of life experience, but I'm assuming that this guy is not part of the norm for soldiers. This is a guy who's heard a lot of propaganda from conservative politicians, and then when someone counters his argument as false, he uses his get out of jail free card of being a decorated vet. Also, George Bush started the TARP bailout, Obama just continued it.

 

[Comando96]

My Dad was in the SAS... its my easiest retort to this level stupid...

You say the words SAS then all lower (Ex-)military personal in Britain appear to go quite and show respect... it seems that is the only thing my drunk dad gave me. Its the easiest way to catch them at their own game. You just 1 up their illogical stance. The "I'm a soldier" remark is designed as an attempt to get respect for their opinions and as you are a civilian you are in their mind due to the ranking system, a level below you. Don't be too harsh on it as this system of ranks is drilled into the minds of all troops.

If you wanted to risk getting a fist in your eye or mouth then there is the alternative retort which is "so you got a degree in economics while in nam? I think not."

Another... quote to them the Art of War... as a soldier they can't argue against.

Art Of War - Sun Tzu
2:11

11
On the other hand, the proximity of an army causes prices to go up; and high prices cause the people's substance to be drained away.

Inflation in action, explained by the ultimate soldier.

 

[Spongebobdickpants]

In Finland we don't have that problem (yet) since everyone here (male) has to do military service. Very few have actually been in a war zone but we all have military training (or at least most of us).

Thats cause your country is so scarsly populated that if someone declared war on finland (what kind of monsters would do that)and only a small fraction of your country was trained it would be over in a day ^^

 

[Sunrider]

Being non-American, I can't relate to it directly, because we don't have the same view on soldiers and our situation is far different, but I can relate to you being annoyed. In Sweden, the immigrant issue is really tense at the moment, and you can't question or argue against our current immigration policy without people throwing the racist card in your face and thus automatically "winning" the argument.
I know it's not the same subject, but I feel the same annoyance as you do, and it sucks.

 

[Kathinka]

America is pretty strange about their military. How they always are so proud of their soldiers that protect their country (while actually causing more people to become a potential threat to it)
Also in movies, the American military has way to much of a positive reputation.

That's because if a movie depicts the army it has to pass a military board and get approval otherwise it wont be allowed in theaters. If it doesn't present the military in a positive light, it doesn't get approval.

My god! Really? I have no words ... but this explains a lot.

No, he's full of shit. The only thing the military does is loan out its equipment to movies under the condition that they depict the US military positively.

Ahh ok, I think they do sponsor some video games as well. I still don't really like that, but "board approval" would be simple cencorship.

it still is, in a way. without the help of the military most movies simply can not be done..you need advisors, lent weapons, experts..and the only way they are going to get it is if the army gets a say in the making and tone of the film. it can be worked arround, but it's still a fairly effective censorship mechanism.
buffalo soldiers for example was such a case where everything had to be begged, borrowed and substituted, because it was deemed 'unpatriotic' (a word that i find repulsive by itself, especially if used by a military that goes arround the globe conducting illegal invasions in the name of a country that once stood for freedom and progress..the gall..)
biggest source were private collectors and old german tanks that got pieces of colored sheet metal on them to appear as american tanks.

 

[Kolby Jack]

Here's what you do when they say something like that.

"Thank you for your service, but you are still completely wrong." Or something along those lines.

Although most army folks I've met have been... cocky, I suppose (including my brother), they all have had respect for civies and their opinions, at least face to face. So I'm glad you aren't letting one curmudgeonly old veteran color your opinion of the entire military.

 

[fix-the-spade]

Though, I have promised a friend that if, when I join the Royal Marines I ever call a regular person a "civvy", he's allowed to punch me in the face.

If you make it to the Marines, you can call anyone you like a Civvy, including squaddies.

Why? Because you're a Royal Marine. No one but nobody's going to pick a fight with you...

Speaking of which, one of my school buddies joined the Marines, he came back from Afghanistan with several pieces of Russian calibre metal in his chest (and lived, thankfully).

For God's sake be careful out there man!

 

[Hipsy_Gypsy]

Snip

Ohh, I see where you're coming from. It's not just soldiers, though I definitely see what you're talking about. That very statement will is enough just to turn me against the individual, regardless of where my own personal view point stands, hopefully that made sense.

I know how you feel - many times I've been.. debating (Totally not arguing!) in a group of people, and someone will say "I'm a soldier!" and suddenly he's automatically right.
It's gotten to the point that now I'll just argue against anyone who says that, even if I hold their viewpoint.
Of course, if I win and now everyone agrees with the new viewpoint, I have to switch back and argue once again. But in the right way, not just bringing up jobs.

That statement is exactly how I feel, except it's more to do with whenever people say "It's art therefore fantastic". No, it looks like, for example, the "artist" was testing out his/her paint brush.


x

 

[Aulleas123]

I think the OP can be right if such a debate or discussion has to do with domestic political issues, religious, or something else that has nothing to do with conflicts abroad. I think that a 'foot on the ground' approach can be legitimate if it has something to do with the conflict abroad. For example, if someone who served in Iraq commented to someone who suggested an incorrect or overly-formal use of the Arabic language (spoken in Iraq), then I'd take his/her advice. However, if the conversation grows to something more general like 'what should be our overall strategy in Afghanistan?' then I may have a problem with the use of a soldier's credentials unless he/she has some strong backing from higher ups (like he/she served with leading generals overseas).

Overall, I see the OP's point; the flagrant use of a soldier's credentials can be obnoxious. However, I think they can bring some insight that is not seen here in the safe ol' USA or any place else that isn't plagued with IEDs and crazed violent fundamentalists (note, key word is 'violent'). I all depends on the context of the argument, just like saying 'I'm a doctor' really doesn't bear much weight when talking about the best written TV show on Thursday nights. It doesn't mean the doctor (or soldier) is dumb, it just means he/she shouldn't use their credentials as a crutch to win an argument.