"Shut up because I'm a soldier!"
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Yeah, I know that feeling. Fortunately, most of the vets I know have learned from their experiences, and know that they can't know everything, and its always more complicated than it seems. But I've been there, and with my uncle no less. I point out facts, statistical facts, proven facts, or just flaws in his argument (like how a federal ban on gay marriage would be unconstitutional and an act of government interfering with states rights and peoples lives) and he says either that its some sort of evil leftist conspiracy, or the "I'mma soldier and a cop, so I'm automatically right". His faith in Glenn Beck just reminds me to avoid talking to him about this stuff, because lets be honest, if anybody watches Glenn Beck, they're not worth your time.
Oh well, you can usually take solace that they'll start to ponder the argument as their self-doubt will eat away at them and torture them.
And I'm not generalizing them, and everybody should. There are a few rotten apples in every group. Now, it may sometimes rely on what your definition of "few" is, but you can't generalize and say every military serviceman is a self-righteous prick. Certainly a lot are, but to say they all are is as prejudiced as saying that whites are innately superior to every non-white person around.
Oh well, you can usually take solace that they'll start to ponder the argument as their self-doubt will eat away at them and torture them.
And I'm not generalizing them, and everybody should. There are a few rotten apples in every group. Now, it may sometimes rely on what your definition of "few" is, but you can't generalize and say every military serviceman is a self-righteous prick. Certainly a lot are, but to say they all are is as prejudiced as saying that whites are innately superior to every non-white person around.
Children are overpowered in debates. Debate refs, nerf children now!!EeveeElectro said:
I didn't blame big business, I blamed the government for putting big business ahead of everything else leading to 40 years of bad economic policies that had absolutely no other logical endpoint than a horrible recession like the one we've been facing for 10 years.maninahat said:
No, that is keynesian economics which is highly suspect and debated. Largely in part because if it worked than we wouldn't be in an recession any more.
Small recessions can be caused by consumer confidence, this one has nothing to do with consumer confidence. It is a result of much deeper problems like low manufacturing, low taxes on the highest tax brackets, too many tax loopholes, and Keynesian economics justified overspending on a completely unsustainable level for a completely unsustainable amount of time, and lastly the controlled inflation that has been perpetrated for the last few decades in order to prevent us from being crushed under that debt at the cost of destroying american savings and devaluing the dollar.
Also, to address something you said specifically, this has nothing to do with stuffing the mattress. The vast vast majority of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck because they can't afford to save money. Prices are rising, wages aren't, and unemployment is skyrocketing. If you include discouraged workers(which you should but the government doesn't in order to look good), then it's absolutely staggering. If you use the method that the government stopped using around 1980, then in June of this year the unemployment rate in the US was over 25%
I had heard about people being discharged because of it.Shock and Awe said:
Of course, in all of those cases it was people with a high security clearance. Even though I am a Communist and I wouldn't do anything to harm the country, I can see why the government of a Capitalist nation wouldn't want a Communist having high security clearance.
The only other thing maybe keeping me out is weight. My build makes me "overweight" unless I cut all muscle and fat. As long as I am in the proper body fat range one of my friends in the military said that I could get a waiver though, so that won't keep me out probably.
Right off the bat, I'm gonna tell you that I have never argued with a soldier/ veteran, nor do I come from a nation that's seen any major conflict in the past 90 years, there fore have no reference point for this. But from arguing with significantly older people, I can sort of see what you mean. I'd still argue that really any argument with someone who isn't using logic is pointless (unless you want to wind them up), but the whole "I have/ am/ was something/ someone" retort does get on my nerves (even if I occasionally use it).
America is pretty strange about their military. How they always are so proud of their soldiers that protect their country (while actually causing more people to become a potential threat to it)
Also in movies, the American military has way to much of a positive reputation.
Also in movies, the American military has way to much of a positive reputation.
It's not that civilians should die (hence geneva convention and all that) but that the number of people total who would have died in a long extended war with Japan would have been comparable with those killed at once in a single strong show of force.Gamblerjoe said:
On topic, I am a soldier and have never used that as reasoning in an argument. I would attribute the OPs experience to the average IQ of many soldiers who I swear picked up an ASVAB waiver somehow! Also on soldiers getting too much respect, I have to say it's actually really awkward when people start thanking you or treating you special.
I've only seen this attitude trotted out in stuff about Don't Ask Don't Tell. The old "I did a couple tours of duty in Iraq and having open gays around is bad!" which seem to be two entirely different sentences just slammed together with little rhyme or reason.
Not encountered such random military prestige-touting idiots in other areas of discussion, but I would imagine I'd get pretty annoyed with it. Luckily I'm in the UK, so anyone who fought a war is either really old or deceased, and everyone fighting one I can just ignore because them bragging that they were out in the desert shooting people has no impact on me, since I find the entire "war" to be stupid and pointless.
And people mentioning Vietnam service to me? Yeah, that's your own deal dude. If you went and tore shit up in a country that had no real means of fighting you back effectively, that's your own shit. Go be a rampaging yahoo in some other discussion, preferably one about military activity.
In short, I don't need anyone screaming about how many foreign people they've killed when I'm trying to discuss social political issues. Fuck off with that shit.
Not encountered such random military prestige-touting idiots in other areas of discussion, but I would imagine I'd get pretty annoyed with it. Luckily I'm in the UK, so anyone who fought a war is either really old or deceased, and everyone fighting one I can just ignore because them bragging that they were out in the desert shooting people has no impact on me, since I find the entire "war" to be stupid and pointless.
And people mentioning Vietnam service to me? Yeah, that's your own deal dude. If you went and tore shit up in a country that had no real means of fighting you back effectively, that's your own shit. Go be a rampaging yahoo in some other discussion, preferably one about military activity.
In short, I don't need anyone screaming about how many foreign people they've killed when I'm trying to discuss social political issues. Fuck off with that shit.
You should just answer:
"I'm Commander Shepard and I do not your argument"
Now, seriously:
Someone who is so desperately in need of arguments that he names his job to support his claim has just lost the case.
Regardless of the topic.
Even if you were discussing the advantages of the shot-gun ballistics versus the Heavy Rifle approach the moment he says he is right because of his job he just fails.
Why? Because even if his job provides him with additional information concerning that specific topic he should be able to explain them to you without the urgency to show off that he is an expert.
TRUE experts don't need to show you a certificate that they are experts in the first place, they should be able to explain (in laymen terms if necessary) why they believe their argument is the better one.
So next time say you're a janitor and you know even more about that topic because of all the old Forbes magazines you read before throwing them away in the dustbin.
"I'm Commander Shepard and I do not your argument"
Now, seriously:
Someone who is so desperately in need of arguments that he names his job to support his claim has just lost the case.
Regardless of the topic.
Even if you were discussing the advantages of the shot-gun ballistics versus the Heavy Rifle approach the moment he says he is right because of his job he just fails.
Why? Because even if his job provides him with additional information concerning that specific topic he should be able to explain them to you without the urgency to show off that he is an expert.
TRUE experts don't need to show you a certificate that they are experts in the first place, they should be able to explain (in laymen terms if necessary) why they believe their argument is the better one.
So next time say you're a janitor and you know even more about that topic because of all the old Forbes magazines you read before throwing them away in the dustbin.
We can all go lurk somewhere else now, no post is going to top this one.The_root_of_all_evil said:
This has happened to me once. This guy who has to be like 22 and I were arguing about whether or not we could rebuild after a nuclear war. I believed that even if it took an extremely long time and it was total hell that one day we could rebuild after a nuclear holocaust, and even if it wasn't humans some form of life would still find a way. He told me I was wrong because there is absolutely no coming back from a nuke. None what so ever. and he knows this because he served two tours in Iraq. He also tried to argue that the atomic bomb was a god send though and how its basically America's divine sword to fight back evil and such.
I have to agree with you there. I wish she would have worded it more like that. She is an intelligent person, but I just found it appalling that in essence her argument was "Im the one jumping in the fire, but someone else should burn for it."Technomage333 said:
interesting. the more i learn, the more i feel like we did the right thing. there were a lot of factors involved. she cold have mentioned that Japan is a nation of cottage industry, and that bombing civilians is the only way to damage their infrastructure. she could have mentioned that the bombs ultimately cost fewer lives (even Japanese lives alone) compared to an invasion. But she snapped back with a narrow minded and selfish response and was very condescending about it. after all, she is a veteran and i was just a dumb kid.ccggenius12 said:
...
On a side note, Im very close to joining the Navy Reserves. Ill have to deal with a lot of narrow minded people, and a lot of people with differing religious and political views, but I wont hold that against our military as a whole.
I think it's the card that some people pull when they can't back up their point of view. I suppose in their mind, because they were once dodging bullets and risking their lives, they believe that they desire... Nay, demand respect and respect to some of them is always winning arguments.
