-Sigh- Dead Island...

[Inkidu]

Is Dead Island any good? Looks like crap to me.

You know, I can't decide that either. I've read at least twenty reviews of varying levels of professionalism. I've asked more people than I remember, and I can't seem to get a common answer out of any of them. So, I've decided it ain't worth sixty bucks.

 

[B4DD]

Is Dead Island any good? Looks like crap to me.

You know, I can't decide that either. I've read at least twenty reviews of varying levels of professionalism. I've asked more people than I remember, and I can't seem to get a common answer out of any of them. So, I've decided it ain't worth sixty bucks.

Play the game dammit, and whatever you do, don't listen to Edge, they are incredibly unprofessional.

 

[Inkidu]

Bull pucky, I'm going to give you an example that doesn't use levels and you still feel like you're getting stronger. Deus Ex: Human Revolution. You didn't have levels but by the end of the game you were either a super-cool killing machine or a ghost's shadow.

Levels are archaic, developers don't really need them anymore. I think it just fill people with nostalgia. Either that or mini/maxi gamers can use them as rough earmarks for their math.

Ehh, the praxis was essentially leveling. It's the same system, just by a different name...er...lack of a name.

Not really, It's more like getting a random ability point every once and a while. There's no number ascribed to it. You can even find an buy them. The idea of needing arbitrary numbers to tell you how strong you are is really outmoded. Unless they lock in the level scaling when you enter an area (Fallout 3, Skyrim) then it's basically telling me the developers are lazy. I can forgive Oblivion because it was doing it first and no one had ever tried to do it before them, but now developers should know better methods.

 

[B4DD]

Bull pucky, I'm going to give you an example that doesn't use levels and you still feel like you're getting stronger. Deus Ex: Human Revolution. You didn't have levels but by the end of the game you were either a super-cool killing machine or a ghost's shadow.

Levels are archaic, developers don't really need them anymore. I think it just fill people with nostalgia. Either that or mini/maxi gamers can use them as rough earmarks for their math.

Ehh, the praxis was essentially leveling. It's the same system, just by a different name...er...lack of a name.

Not really, It's more like getting a random ability point every once and a while. There's no number ascribed to it. You can even find an buy them. The idea of needing arbitrary numbers to tell you how strong you are is really outmoded. Unless they lock in the level scaling when you enter an area (Fallout 3, Skyrim) then it's basically telling me the developers are lazy. I can forgive Oblivion because it was doing it first and no one had ever tried to do it before them, but now developers should know better methods.

That's a technicality though. Not gonna retype that wall of text so here:

A few RPG's have attempted to do away with the main theme of leveling, but they still use it in one form or another. Spiral Knights comes to mind, where your character never levels up or gains new abilities. Instead your worth is measured solely by the armor on your back and the weapons in your hand. It kind of works, but you lose the feeling of individuality, the feeling that this is your character. Really, if your gonna make an RPG, leveling of some kind or another needs to be in play, because without it you have no character progression. You could try something else, but really any kind of progression can easily be related back to leveling.

 

[Inkidu]

Is Dead Island any good? Looks like crap to me.

You know, I can't decide that either. I've read at least twenty reviews of varying levels of professionalism. I've asked more people than I remember, and I can't seem to get a common answer out of any of them. So, I've decided it ain't worth sixty bucks.

Play the game dammit, and whatever you do, don't listen to Edge, they are incredibly unprofessional.

Hey, if you got sixty bucks you want to mail me I'm more than glad to PM you my mailing address. All the rental places near my home have gone out of business and Netflix doesn't do games. I just got it, so I'm not exactly sure. Otherwise, my disposable income is a bit lacking.

 

[B4DD]

Is Dead Island any good? Looks like crap to me.

You know, I can't decide that either. I've read at least twenty reviews of varying levels of professionalism. I've asked more people than I remember, and I can't seem to get a common answer out of any of them. So, I've decided it ain't worth sixty bucks.

Play the game dammit, and whatever you do, don't listen to Edge, they are incredibly unprofessional.

Hey, if you got sixty bucks you want to mail me I'm more than glad to PM you my mailing address. All the rental places near my home have gone out of business and Netflix doesn't do games. I just got it, so I'm not exactly sure. Otherwise, my disposable income is a bit lacking.

You got me there, my friend gifted me my copy. You don't have to listen to me, my endorsement is just one of many alongside many other bad reviews. I'm just sayan that in my experience this game is fun.

 

[Inkidu]

Bull pucky, I'm going to give you an example that doesn't use levels and you still feel like you're getting stronger. Deus Ex: Human Revolution. You didn't have levels but by the end of the game you were either a super-cool killing machine or a ghost's shadow.

Levels are archaic, developers don't really need them anymore. I think it just fill people with nostalgia. Either that or mini/maxi gamers can use them as rough earmarks for their math.

Ehh, the praxis was essentially leveling. It's the same system, just by a different name...er...lack of a name.

Not really, It's more like getting a random ability point every once and a while. There's no number ascribed to it. You can even find an buy them. The idea of needing arbitrary numbers to tell you how strong you are is really outmoded. Unless they lock in the level scaling when you enter an area (Fallout 3, Skyrim) then it's basically telling me the developers are lazy. I can forgive Oblivion because it was doing it first and no one had ever tried to do it before them, but now developers should know better methods.

That's a technicality though. Not gonna retype that wall of text so here:

A few RPG's have attempted to do away with the main theme of leveling, but they still use it in one form or another. Spiral Knights comes to mind, where your character never levels up or gains new abilities. Instead your worth is measured solely by the armor on your back and the weapons in your hand. It kind of works, but you lose the feeling of individuality, the feeling that this is your character. Really, if your gonna make an RPG, leveling of some kind or another needs to be in play, because without it you have no character progression. You could try something else, but really any kind of progression can easily be related back to leveling.

Bull pucky, I'm going to give you an example that doesn't use levels and you still feel like you're getting stronger. Deus Ex: Human Revolution. You didn't have levels but by the end of the game you were either a super-cool killing machine or a ghost's shadow.

Levels are archaic, developers don't really need them anymore. I think it just fill people with nostalgia. Either that or mini/maxi gamers can use them as rough earmarks for their math.

Ehh, the praxis was essentially leveling. It's the same system, just by a different name...er...lack of a name.

Not really, It's more like getting a random ability point every once and a while. There's no number ascribed to it. You can even find an buy them. The idea of needing arbitrary numbers to tell you how strong you are is really outmoded. Unless they lock in the level scaling when you enter an area (Fallout 3, Skyrim) then it's basically telling me the developers are lazy. I can forgive Oblivion because it was doing it first and no one had ever tried to do it before them, but now developers should know better methods.

That's a technicality though. Not gonna retype that wall of text so here:

A few RPG's have attempted to do away with the main theme of leveling, but they still use it in one form or another. Spiral Knights comes to mind, where your character never levels up or gains new abilities. Instead your worth is measured solely by the armor on your back and the weapons in your hand. It kind of works, but you lose the feeling of individuality, the feeling that this is your character. Really, if your gonna make an RPG, leveling of some kind or another needs to be in play, because without it you have no character progression. You could try something else, but really any kind of progression can easily be related back to leveling.

I say that right there is the technicality. I don't think you really lose the individuality, especially when they do it well. I find myself ignoring levels though most of the time. It doesn't matter that my Shepard is level twenty. What matters is I've just finished upping X skill. So yeah, you can say that everyone just calls levels different names, but I honestly think they're a technicality, some kind of formality really.

 

[B4DD]

I say that right there is the technicality. I don't think you really lose the individuality, especially when they do it well. I find myself ignoring levels though most of the time. It doesn't matter that my Shepard is level twenty. What matters is I've just finished upping X skill. So yeah, you can say that everyone just calls levels different names, but I honestly think they're a technicality, some kind of formality really.

You've just finished upping the level of your skill

 

[Kopikatsu]

I have a feeling im the only one alive who liked having the difficulty raised up to full with Oblivion arn't I?

I suppose that with Dead Island it would be nice if the levels scaled a -little- bit along with the level of zombie you just killed. I.e. a lvl 2 zombie drops a lvl 2 stat weapon and a lvl 11 zombie drops a lvl 9 stat weapon. Or something in that direction. That way you still have a weaker weapon, peserving the 'running scared trying to survive' feeling, but still offering a slight chance of better combat survival.

Isn't that what you mean Kopikatsu?

Not really. Enemy competence is strange. I was able to clear out a small room of seven zombies while avoiding the Thug in the middle of the room without getting hit more than once or twice, then I suddenly get my face smashed in by two Infected in the next area.

As was mentioned earlier, the enemies seem to do %-based damage, so getting a longer health bar only means that you need more healing items/medkits to bring your health back up to full. A level 9 weapon will do shit damage to a level 11. It would take about 4-5 swings to kill a single Walker. (I know because I just did it with those levels recently).

In that same area, I was being besieged by 4-9 enemies every room. It could be swung about 20 times before breaking. I literally ended up just kicking enemies in the face and running away while they tried to stand back up.

I should clarify my original point though. I don't really mind level scaling THAT much, but I can't stand it when the enemies become vastly more powerful than you do because of it. Which is the case here.

 

[Ruwrak]

Not really. Enemy competence is strange. I was able to clear out a small room of seven zombies while avoiding the Thug in the middle of the room without getting hit more than once or twice, then I suddenly get my face smashed in by two Infected in the next area.

As was mentioned earlier, the enemies seem to do %-based damage, so getting a longer health bar only means that you need more healing items/medkits to bring your health back up to full. A level 9 weapon will do shit damage to a level 11. It would take about 4-5 swings to kill a single Walker. (I know because I just did it with those levels recently).

In that same area, I was being besieged by 4-9 enemies every room. It could be swung about 20 times before breaking. I literally ended up just kicking enemies in the face and running away while they tried to stand back up.

I should clarify my original point though. I don't really mind level scaling THAT much, but I can't stand it when the enemies become vastly more powerful than you do because of it. Which is the case here.

BUt you'll have to agree that a lvl 9 weapon > a lvl 2 weapon by leagues yes?

 

[Sinathor]

Level-scaling is probably the worst thing ever, anywhere.

Not only it takes away any kind of feeling of progression on the player's part. But it also eliminates all sense of danger of the unknown, since virtually every enemy that you meet, regardless of your level, you will be able to beat.

Level-scaling is just lazy design.

 

[Raddra]

I think if you're going to level scale (Where EVERYTHING levels with you), don't really bother including levels at all. Why not just gain a skill point or whatever every time you fill the EXP bar?

This.

Levels are supposed to represent you getting stronger in comparison t the world around you. If the world scales too its a pointless waste of time.

 

[Jake Martinez]

Where they fuck up level scaling is that they are lazy about it. They simply peg everything at your level, regardless of how well you are actually doing at the same.

A better mechanic would be to associate some variance into the formula, preferably tied to your performance. If you're doing well, average encounters will be slightly weaker than you - reflecting how good you are at accumulating combat experience. If you're doing poorly, then they are higher then they are tougher, reflecting how bad you are at combat.

If the enemies grant XP relative to your level, then the net effect is that everything will balance out around average over time. Strong characters will get less XP, so over time the average will balance the zombies up towards their level and inverse for week characters.

It's not an amazing mechanic, but it introduces some reasonable variation in difficulty tied to player progression.

 

[Andrew_Mac]

The thing about dead island is you aren't supposed to kill every zombie you meet. It puts you in the shoes of one of the suvivors and gives you nothing to make you feel in danger. If you want a happy hack and slasher game, get dead rising.

 

[Robert Ewing]

Level scaling is the most stupid system known to man.

Because the only reason you'd want to ever spend time grinding leveling up, is to get the upper hand on the enemy. If you spent the time getting stronger than the enemy, then you should at least be allowed to be stronger than the enemy!

It's stupid, why include levels at all if the enemies are going to level as you level? It's utterly balls.

My first ass experience with this was with Final Fantasy 8. I spent weeks training all my characters up to level 99. Only to find that when I pushed on with the story. All the other enemies where just as tough as me. And the only thing I'd been able to achieve is a large number in the menu screen. It wasted so, so much time.

 

[B4DD]

The thing about dead island is you aren't supposed to kill every zombie you meet. It puts you in the shoes of one of the suvivors and gives you nothing to make you feel in danger. If you want a happy hack and slasher game, get dead rising.

Woah Woah Woah. Your making a pretty grand generalization (and I predict assumption). Yes, you're not meant to fight every zombie you come across, but would you fight every zombie in a real zombie apocolypse? No, it just isn't realistic (silly as that sounds). You're kind of straying from the topic so I will too. Dead Island has a much better fighting system than dead rising in the way that there's a bit more strategy to it. You don't just use x weapon on y enemy you use x weapon on y enemy in w way at z body part. You could prolly add w to the dead rising formula by way of throwing or hitting, but you can do the same in dead island so I just negated it.

 

[SwimmingRock]

Like many have said before me, I think level scaling is a ridiculous and terrible system. I remember FF8 scaled mob levels, but not bosses. End result was that fucking flies encountered on the world map took three hits to kill, but bosses took one hit. Not particularly impressive for a boss fight.

I just seriously don't get why level scaling exists. What does it accomplish? I did like it in the Lunar games, but that was boss-only level scaling. Bosses should be hard, so I'm fine with that, but scaling mobs is idiotic.

This is precisely why I always choose completely useless skills as my main skills in Elder Scrolls games and just beat the whole thing at level 1. Any higher and the enemies get stronger faster than you do. That's the exact opposite of how leveling should work.

 

[Andrew_Mac]

The thing about dead island is you aren't supposed to kill every zombie you meet. It puts you in the shoes of one of the suvivors and gives you nothing to make you feel in danger. If you want a happy hack and slasher game, get dead rising.

Woah Woah Woah. Your making a pretty grand generalization (and I predict assumption). Yes, you're not meant to fight every zombie you come across, but would you fight every zombie in a real zombie apocolypse? No, it just isn't realistic (silly as that sounds). You're kind of straying from the topic so I will too. Dead Island has a much better fighting system than dead rising in the way that there's a bit more strategy to it. You don't just use x weapon on y enemy you use x weapon on y enemy in w way at z body part. You could prolly add w to the dead rising formula by way of throwing or hitting, but you can do the same in dead island so I just negated it.

Actually, the makers of the game stated that they were trying to make you feel in danger by giving you very basic weapons and putting you against a huge horde. You can kill them all if you really feel like you have to (and have the time) but its advised you don't cos you will die. A lot. I'm not making a generalisation I'm merely repeating what the makers said. I'm getting this game tomorrow, (english release dates be damned) and i'll play it a lot. I only hope its as fun as i want it to be.

 

[Kukakkau]

I've always hated level scaling because you got no real sense of getting stronger - oh hey that rat was as strong as that big guy I just fought.

Total sense...

 

[Kopikatsu]

The thing about dead island is you aren't supposed to kill every zombie you meet. It puts you in the shoes of one of the suvivors and gives you nothing to make you feel in danger. If you want a happy hack and slasher game, get dead rising.

That would be fine if not for the fact that they force you to fight ridiculous amounts of zombies at the same time. Occasionally some NPC will tell you to run for it, and THEN you can. Every other time you encounter swarms of 7-8 zombies, you have no choice but to bash their heads in and move on because it's a small, linear corridor to the next objective.

Also, the Infected run much, MUCH faster than you could ever hope to and can literally 'sense' you from the edge of your vision while facing in an opposite direction. Not much of a chance of escaping from that.

Edit: The fact that you get XP for killing them is also a bad design choice if what you said is true. I've lost count of the times that I've died trying to kill just one more Thug for a bushel of XP.