Since when did it become unacceptable to expect better from a game?

[sma_warrior]

Okay, so yesterday I started a thread listing what I perceived as flaws in Valve's Half Life 2. I listed the weaknesses along with my reasoning for such. Some responses I found to be grown up and much appreciated and something to consider, but for the most part the responses I got seemed to be from 12 year old religious zealots who seemed appalled that I could even question some possible aspect of the game.

My question is why is it wrong to expect something more? Half Life 2 received that many rave reviews and I paid my hard earned dollars for a game that I personally found not meeting my expectations. It's a GOOD game, yes and I found some enjoyment, but there are other games I've played that I've enjoyed more (Deus Ex and System Shock 2 spring to mind as better games in the same genre and both are older than the game in question). That's my personal opinion and nothing more.

Now this is NOT, I repeat NOT! a discussion on Half Life 2. That is just the explanation for why I started this thread. This thread is a discussion on why it's wrong for me to question why some areas of any game could not have been done better and/or differently. Why should I just be prepared to sit quietly, and accept the reviews and say nothing more for fear of being ripped limb from limb by those who take offence at the mere thought that someone may not agree with their view that a game is nothing but perfect?

 

[Bored Tomatoe]

Since you nitpicked about a game just because its popular.

 

[Chickenlittle]

A lot of people feel they need to justify buying a game and investing time into it. Because of this, there are often delirious arguments and plain old bullshit, especially from the younger players.

 

[Namewithheld]

Well...the truth is...

Some people just like things. And some people just don't like the same thing. Bitching about it gets no where.

I mean, no matter how many times someone tells me that Citizen Kain is awesome, I'm still going to hate it. ANd no matter how many times people tell me Spike Lee is a great director, I'm still going to think he's an egotistical asshole.



Don't like and like what you want and be fine with it. If you're having fun, whos to care how you do it?

Assuming, of course, your method of fun doesn't involve lighting homeless people on fire or anything...

 

[Sylocat]

I've found the opposite problem pretty prevalent too. It's either unacceptable to expect better from a game, or it's unacceptable to just enjoy a game for what it is.

The list of games that you're not allowed to criticize is much smaller, but it basically includes everything by Valve, Gears of War, and... well, that's all I can think of.

The list of games you're not allowed to LIKE is much longer, including every game ever put out for the Wii, any other game that Yahtzee has ever criticized, and so on...

 

[Guan Yu]

eh... I have bought a lot of games and they realized they are shit. It is saddening but not reason to rip into someone on a forum I believe most people do that be cause they are assholes simple and nothing more. Plus on the internet you can be an ass with no serious repercussions like friendships destroyed etc...

 

[magicmuffinman]

Why do opinions have to be "Right" and "Wrong"?

Why can't they just be different?

No wonder humanity keeps killing each other... I can feel the hatred for it boiling in me right now!

 

[sma_warrior]

The list of games that you're not allowed to criticize is much smaller, but it basically includes everything by Valve, Gears of War, and... well, that's all I can think of.

You left off Halo... lol

Oh! AND Metal Gear Solid (which if someone makes a valid point against it I'm grown up enough to accept and discuss without going into a shouting war over...)

 

[Fenixius]

Yeah, everyone else here pretty much said it. Anonymity + Immaturity = Flames. That's how it works. When you start a thread like that, you've gotta expect the zealots to come in and defend their holy text. So just ignore them, I say, and pick out the good posts to respond to. Anyone who directly responds to your argument is worth a direct response, if their response is more than "I disagree" or "I hate you". In my opinion, at least.

It's just how it is with the Internet, unfortunately.

 

[sma_warrior]

Yeah, everyone else here pretty much said it. Anonymity + Immaturity = Flames. That's how it works. When you start a thread like that, you've gotta expect the zealots to come in and defend their holy text. So just ignore them, I say, and pick out the good posts to respond to. Anyone who directly responds to your argument is worth a direct response, if their response is more than "I disagree" or "I hate you". In my opinion, at least.

It's just how it is with the Internet, unfortunately.

Maybe they should set up boards whereby you need a credit card to prove you're an adult and have legitimate discussions? lol

 

[runtheplacered]

Well, for starters you just compared HL2 to System Shock 2 and Deus Ex, when they're not the same types of games.

Secondly, I know what thread you're talking about and I don't recall anybody claiming you ought not expect more from games. That would be a very strange comment, if somebody did.

Lastly, I think a lot of people get called "12 year old religious zealots" or fanboys or some other such thing, just for having a counter argument. It's hard to have a debate on the internet without hearing the inflection in peoples voices. Maybe you're adding that inflection for them, in your mind?

Nobody really got that immature that I can recall and even if they did, so what? Why not just reply to them if you want to know the answer to that question? Are you wanting them to find this thread and reply in this one?

 

[thiosk]

I never really liked half life 2, and got quite upset that A: i wasn't in black mesa and B: the driving levels were drenched in terribadness. Sure, all the mods, extras, portals, and other source fun makes up for it, but I really wasn't happy with hl2 on a story level.

 

[Sion_Barzahd]

Yeah, everyone else here pretty much said it. Anonymity + Immaturity = Flames. That's how it works. When you start a thread like that, you've gotta expect the zealots to come in and defend their holy text. So just ignore them, I say, and pick out the good posts to respond to. Anyone who directly responds to your argument is worth a direct response, if their response is more than "I disagree" or "I hate you". In my opinion, at least.

It's just how it is with the Internet, unfortunately.

Maybe they should set up boards whereby you need a credit card to prove you're an adult and have legitimate discussions? lol

Probably wouldn't do much to cull things. I mean i know plenty of immature flamers who're in their 20's.
Quite saddening really.

OP: Personally i don't think its wrong to expect more, its people expecting more and more from games that drive developers to raise their standards.
This modern complacency could be the reason why gaming standards have begun to drop.

At the end of the day the only way it seems you can express a negative opinion on a game is if you do it like Yahtzee does. Fast-talking and colourfully abusive.

 

[Dys]

Why do opinions have to be "Right" and "Wrong"?

Why can't they just be different?

No wonder humanity keeps killing each other... I can feel the hatred for it boiling in me right now!

Because I don't have different points of veiw, and as my opinion is clearly right, everyone else must be wrong


People are always going to defend games/cars/computer parts (ati vs Nvidia) etc that they like, and will always take it as a personal attack if you disagree with them.

 

[Jandau]

Okay, so yesterday I started a thread listing what I perceived as flaws in Valve's Half Life 2. I listed the weaknesses along with my reasoning for such. Some responses I found to be grown up and much appreciated and something to consider, but for the most part the responses I got seemed to be from 12 year old religious zealots who seemed appalled that I could even question some possible aspect of the game.

My question is why is it wrong to expect something more? Half Life 2 received that many rave reviews and I paid my hard earned dollars for a game that I personally found not meeting my expectations. It's a GOOD game, yes and I found some enjoyment, but there are other games I've played that I've enjoyed more (Deus Ex and System Shock 2 spring to mind as better games in the same genre and both are older than the game in question). That's my personal opinion and nothing more.

Now this is NOT, I repeat NOT! a discussion on Half Life 2. That is just the explanation for why I started this thread. This thread is a discussion on why it's wrong for me to question why some areas of any game could not have been done better and/or differently. Why should I just be prepared to sit quietly, and accept the reviews and say nothing more for fear of being ripped limb from limb by those who take offence at the mere thought that someone may not agree with their view that a game is nothing but perfect?

I read through your HL2 thread and while some of the points are indeed nitpicky (not being able to use the GG through windows), some are quite valid. Flat characters, bland and vague story and why the hell every character in the game loves Freeman so much (I played the first HL and I still don't quite get it). But the fact stands you glazed over the good parts and made a huge rant about what you don't like about the game. You forgot to mention the atmosphere, music, some truly epic levels, etc. etc.

You weren't objective and sounded like you were just bashing the game.

As for it being unacceptable to expect better from a game, I'd personally nominate Dead Space, which has lately become my pet peeve. Mediocre game, bland in the horror department and with a crappy final level and cliche ending. And yet it scored 8.5-9.5 in reviews. My mind boggles...

 

[CmdrGoob]

Maybe if you'd actually had some good points, you'd have done better.

Half your points were just wrong - like calling the guns mundane when quite clearly they are not. Maybe you should look that word up? CoD4s guns are mundane, WW2 shooter guns are mundane. Anything with gravity guns, glowing crossbow bolts, and scent pods is objectively not mundane.

Or you bitched about how you should be able to understand the plot without doing anything to find out what happened in the first one, describing it, laughably, as 'discriminatory'. You've got to be kidding me.

Funnily enough I made fun of bad moments in Half Life 2's plot just yesterday, and not one person disagreed or objected. Now why was that?

Edit: I mean you bitched that the gravity gun couldn't pick things up though windows. WTF? Oh yeah, that makes it all so mediocre and shit! Clearly you should expect more than that from a game! What are you, a troll?

 

[sma_warrior]

Well, for starters you just compared HL2 to System Shock 2 and Deus Ex, when they're not the same types of games.

Secondly, I know what thread you're talking about and I don't recall anybody claiming you ought not expect more from games.

Lastly, I think a lot of people get called "12 year old religious zealots" or fanboys or some other such thing, just for having a counter argument. It's hard to have a debate on the internet without hearing the inflection in peoples voices. Nobody really got that immature that I can recall and even if they did, so what? Why not just reply to them if you want to know the answer to that question? Are you wanting them to find this thread and reply in this one?

I'd say you'd be hard pressed to say the games are not the same type of games - Science Fiction FPS games. But that's not the point. (yes, they have differences, but ultimately they'll all get lumped together with others such as Halo and Resistance and so on and so forth)

As for not expecting better, the controls of the vehicles were an absolute mess with the ratio of enemies:time spent on the sections too low to really be considered fun, yet many people defended the sections, implying they're happy to settle for sub par.

 

[Samirat]

12 year old religious zealots = people who disagree with you?

And despite what you say, I'm fairly certain you are still in possession of all your limbs.

The fact remains that however limb rippingly appalled they might have been about your comments on Half-Life 2, none of them started a whole new thread just to complain about it (I don't think). If you're looking for intelligent discussion, try not insulting your opposition. If you want them to be less offensive to you, be less offensive to them.

 

[sma_warrior]

Or you bitched about how you should be able to understand the plot without doing anything to find out what happened in the first one, describing it, laughably, as 'discriminatory'. You've got to be kidding me.

Good writing in a sequel can cater to both people familiar and new to a series, pleasing both fans while drawing in new ones.

 

[Railgun88]

If you play a game you expected more from and it didn't meet your expectations then oh well. You choose for yourself if the game was worth it or not. If it wasn't something you liked oh well. Either way people have different views they will say or do what they will.