Skyrim, level-scaling, and you.

[Danpascooch]

Actually, I haven't heard a single reason why this is not bizarre or idiotic, and certainly nothing that suggests it's ENCOURAGED!

Did you read my post? I will repeat the important parts, in caps since you seem to put some stock in them.

At the start of the game, the game says GO HERE. Then GO HERE.

At that point, you realize OH GOD THE WORLD IS ENDING AND THE FREAKING DEVIL JUST KILLED A FEW THOUSAND PEOPLE.

I wonder what I should do in this situation? Maybe learn to pick locks and cast light spells in my spare time? Go deer-hunting or help passerby in danger?

Or maybe I should RESCUE THE WORLD'S ONLY HOPE FOR SURVIVAL. Naw, maybe some calisthenics and petty theft instead-- OH GOD THOSE GUYS ARE ATTACKING MY CHURCH and now MY CASTLE and now MY TOWN and now ALL THOSE OTHER TOWNS and now THAT ONE REALLY BIG TOWN and OH LOOK A DRAGON WTF HAPPENED AND I'm level 4.

So tell me again how people are functionally retarded for playing the main story quest the way it was designed to be played, and the only way in which it makes any narrative sense?

Morrowind's MQ at several points outright told you to get some experience and money, join some factions, etc. It was literally and thematically about the growth of you character, and the world would murder you if you weren't up to the task.

First of all, there are parts in the main story line where there is a drop off in urgency (such as just after getting Martin safely to the Blades, or the time when you are supposed to recruit other cities) secondly, don't say it was designed to play that way, the game is made to be an open world exploration, even if you don't feel that it makes narrative sense, you aren't qualified to speak for the developers intentions especially since most people don't play the way you think the developer intented them to, third, even if you abandon everything else to do JUST the main quest line, you will get significant enough gains in weapon, magic, and miscellanies skills such as athletics and acrobatics to be a decent level at the end as long as you don't make a specific effort not to. At the level cap? No. At half the level cap? Possibly not, but DEFINITELY not level fucking two.

 

[maturin]

the game is made to be an open world exploration

Hence the inconsistency inherent in the terribly written, massively inconsistent, lore-raping, no-fun, insulting to our intelligence main quest.

Possibly not, but DEFINITELY not level fucking two.

Again with the reading. Level 2 is the sole requirement for progressing at the midpoint of the quest. You might be like level 5 if you fast travel everywhere.

 

[dragonslayer32]

This is what I was afraid of. I loked oblivion's system and hated Fallout's. The only thing wrong with Oblivion's was the fact that your enemies scaled at the same rate. If they fixed that it would have been perfect.

 

[maturin]

This is what I was afraid of. I loked oblivion's system and hated Fallout's. The only thing wrong with Oblivion's was the fact that your enemies scaled at the same rate. If they fixed that it would have been perfect.

Yeah cause starving highwaymen decked out in full suits of rare magic armor from another dimensions makes sooooo much sense.

 

[dragonslayer32]

This is what I was afraid of. I loked oblivion's system and hated Fallout's. The only thing wrong with Oblivion's was the fact that your enemies scaled at the same rate. If they fixed that it would have been perfect.

Yeah cause starving highwaymen decked out in full suits of rare magic armor from another dimensions makes sooooo much sense.

That wouldn't happen if they didn't level with your character, you know the thing I was saying I wanted? Plus, they are Highwaymen, they rob and kill for a living, they ccould have came across armour on someone they killed.

 

[nuba km]

ya that's better so you'll encounter enemies that you can the kick the ass of now which you couldn't before but you will still run into hard enemies later to give you a challenge like in fallout three at level 30 you kick all kinds of ass but then albino rad scorpion death-claw or ghoul reaver and there is a fight to be had.

 

[maturin]

That wouldn't happen if they didn't level with your character, you know the thing I was saying I wanted?

Technically that's loot level scaling, not NPC level scaling. The thing which nerfs ancient, powerful Daedric artifacts and would turn the Holy Grail into a sippy cup if you got it at the wrong level.

Plus, they are Highwaymen, they rob and kill for a living, they ccould have came across armour on someone they killed.

Please. When the mutants in Fallout start rolling around in Abrams tanks, get back to me.


In Morrowind, Daedric armor was so rare that there wasn't even a complete set in the game. Every piece was hand-placed and well-hidden. Playing Oblivion is like playing Meryl Streep's character in The Devil Wears Prada. You decided what the world wears to work.

It's retarded.

"Hey look, that thief in charge of the Mages Guild leveled up. Get outa this cave, mudcrabs. The minotaurs have to move in now." Doesn't anyone have standards anymore? The slogan of this series is "live another life in another world.' I would rather that there was a world, not a themepark.

 

[dragonslayer32]

That wouldn't happen if they didn't level with your character, you know the thing I was saying I wanted?

Technically that's loot level scaling, not NPC level scaling. The thing which nerfs ancient, powerful Daedric artifacts and would turn the Holy Grail into a sippy cup if you got it at the wrong level.

Plus, they are Highwaymen, they rob and kill for a living, they ccould have came across armour on someone they killed.

Please. When the mutants in Fallout start rolling around in Abrams tanks, get back to me.


In Morrowind, Daedric armor was so rare that there wasn't even a complete set in the game. Every piece was hand-placed and well-hidden. Playing Oblivion is like playing Meryl Streep's character in The Devil Wears Prada. You decided what the world wears to work.

It's retarded.

It isn't 'retarded'. Plus, is their even one Abrams tank in Fallout? (I stopped playing it because it was terrible)
So what you are trying to say here is that highwaymen can't kill someone and steal their armour? Plus, highwaymen were some of the richest people going...
Also, you do realise that portals to oblivion (a deadric land) have opened all over the place? There are cults spread across cyrodill which worship deadric gods, hell, even the emperor's son used to dabble in it and you are trying to say that it shouldn't be easy to get a hold of? Please, I suggest you rethink what a highwayman does.

P.S. Please don't use words like 'retarded' in future when talking to me.

 

[Altorin]

There should be places that you fear at low level.

Like, in fantasy literature, there are horrible places that WILL KILL YOU if you're not prepared for them.

The Underdark? Mirkwood? ... Death Claw Sanctuary anyone?

This is the way to go. None of the dungeons in oblivion were particularly compelling because you always either had an easy time in them, or you had a hard time, depending on how high/how levelled you were.

 

[JemothSkarii]

I used to like Level Scaling for making the game feel a bit 'challenging' all the way through. But I miss the thrill of fighting a high level monster in the beginning of the game so then it would give you a REASON to level. I reckon in games they should have an option to ADD level scaling or not, appease both parties...
Plus I found it odd EVERY Highwayman had Glass armour and weapons in Oblivion.

 

[Diligent]

Level 60?

No fucking wonder you got raped.

Oblivion isn't meant to function as a game past level 30. Your combat skills cap at 100.

Yeah, haha, I may have gotten carried away, but there is so much wonderful stuff to do in the game.
But if it's not meant to function as a game after level 30, what's it meant to function as? A toaster strudel? It would be nice if they told you that somewhere, or perhaps capped out your leveling at 30 if you weren't meant to go past that (which I suppose is what they did in Fallout 3). It isn't cool that you can level yourself to a point where the game breaks.

 

[The Wykydtron]

I liked the the higher end of the level scaling, as you get to see all of those little Stunted Scamps at the start of Oblivion mature into those Daedric armored guys and cool lizard thingys (no idea what they're called)

And wandering into a place too difficult for you can be fucking annoying (CAZADORS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) But stealthing past 3 Deathclaws at level 3 (with basically no points in stealth) makes you feel damn cool

 

[Gibboniser]

I'm happy with that, one thing though, is that I don't want to be able to destroy everything, if I set out immediately from wherever you set out from, prison, ship, whatever, If I go exploring the mountain tops and come across some Dragon, I expect to die, quickly. Some enemies you have to train for, adds to the feeling of satisfaction when you actually kill them.

 

[omicron1]

Concept:
Let there be three levels of encounter: The Low-Level encounter, the High-Level encounter, and the Epic Encounter.
The Low-Level encounter is something designed for a character several levels your junior. When you enter this encounter, you should feel like an all-conquering hero, smashing through all opposition. Perhaps your foes should even turn tail and run. Music, lighting, and all should be triumphant and bright. There should still be useful, albeit scant, rewards - getting a dozen "Minor Health Potions" that heal 10 HP over ten seconds is useless when you have 500 HP. However, if you get one "Major Health Potion," it represents a useful reward for your stomping, and doesn't dissuade you from entering low-level regions.

The High-Level encounter is at or somewhat over your current level. It should pose a reasonable, fun challenge while not overwhelming the player with instant death. This one may scale down somewhat to keep from being overwhelming - a Level 20 quest that you approach at Level 10 might scale down to Level 15 - somewhat easier, but still a real challenge. This keeps the region between "too hard" and "too easy" sizeable, and increases playability. Music should be more tense, lighting darker, and rewards should scale up as the challenge does.

The Epic encounter represents a quest that you really have no business taking on. Kill a dragon when you're level 1? Good luck! There should be visual and audio cues to tell the player this - blood specks on the walls and floors, reddish or darkened lighting, and very tense/doleful music. Let the player know, without removing immersion, that this is not somewhere he wants to be right now. The challenge should not scale down at all, but the rewards should scale up - if you manage to defeat a hugely overpowered encounter somehow, you should feel like a Big Damn Hero and get said hero's loot, too.

 

[Danpascooch]

the game is made to be an open world exploration

Hence the inconsistency inherent in the terribly written, massively inconsistent, lore-raping, no-fun, insulting to our intelligence main quest.

Possibly not, but DEFINITELY not level fucking two.

Again with the reading. Level 2 is the sole requirement for progressing at the midpoint of the quest. You might be like level 5 if you fast travel everywhere.

You need to pay attention, and not quote me out of context like that, I said there is no way they will be level-fucking-two IF they don't intentionally try to keep their level down, which nobody does except as an experiment. I'm not talking about what the REQUIREMENT happens to be, I'm talking about what players actually experience if they don't try to break the game, because that's all that matters.

You also can't fast travel everywhere, because you need to first FIND all of the locations the main quest brings you to.

Whether or not you like the main quest is pretty irrelevant to what we're talking about, should I assume since you neglected to mention any of the things I said in my last post besides a half sentence quote taken out of context that you agree with the points I made?

 

[Danpascooch]

I don't really care how I level up, I just like to play the game. What do people not like about Level Scaling though??

Apparently, RPGs shouldn't give the player a consistent challenge, and you should be an over-powered bastard at the end game, or something. Grinding through tough spots should also totally be an option, too. And Bandits look silly in Glass Armor or whatever.

My issue with the scaling levels in oblivion is that it is NOT a consistent challenge.
My experience with the game was that I was enjoying it so much, and taking my sweet ass time that by the time I got to around level 60, the main quest was simply impossible -period- with the character I tried to build...never did actually finish the game.
Meanwhile, my dad who is an extremely unskilled gamer whizzed his way past the main story and final boss at level 6.
Level fucking 6.

The fact that the game seemed to be punishing me for playing the game more seemed wrong. It's not that I wanted to be an overpowered bastard, on the contrary I love a good challenge. But when you level your character up so high that the game becomes irreversibly impossible, there is a problem (coming from a guy who has finished 2 playthroughs of Demon's Souls).

Level 60? Is it even possible to get that high without modding/cheating?

(BTW, there is a difficulty slider)

 

[A Weary Exile]

GI cover story!? WANT NAO!

I can't wait for this game and the news that the leveling system of Oblivion is being rethought or just totally thrown out is just icing on the cake.

 

[Diligent]

Level 60? Is it even possible to get that high without modding/cheating?

(BTW, there is a difficulty slider)

Yes, it is totally possible to get that high without modding/cheating. Instead of restarting multiple characters, I just played the heck out of it with one. And yeah, the difficulty slider wasn't something I wanted to use, but I cracked, cranked it all the way down, and it did nothing.
My character was broken.

 

[Danpascooch]

Level 60? Is it even possible to get that high without modding/cheating?

(BTW, there is a difficulty slider)

Yes, it is totally possible to get that high without modding/cheating. Instead of restarting multiple characters, I just played the heck out of it with one. And yeah, the difficulty slider wasn't something I wanted to use, but I cracked, cranked it all the way down, and it did nothing.
My character was broken.

That sucks, sorry.

But hell, you enjoyed the game ALL THE WAY TO LEVEL 60!

That must have taken a fucking eternity, that's gotta count for something right?

I am very close to the level cap and everything works for me alright, maybe you should try a different strategy, ever think of enchanting a chameleon set and stealth killing?

I've heard with the proper enchantments, you can actually get 100% physical and 100% magic resistance, rendering you literally invincible to everything but arrows and fall damage, so there has to be SOME way for you to be able to continue winning in battle.

 

[maturin]

You need to pay attention, and not quote me out of context like that, I said there is no way they will be level-fucking-two IF they don't intentionally try to keep their level down, which nobody does except as an experiment. I'm not talking about what the REQUIREMENT happens to be, I'm talking about what players actually experience if they don't try to break the game, because that's all that matters.

It doesn't matter what context I quote you in, because I read it in context.

I never said people would beat the MQ at level 2. But you're bent on (loudly) making that point, framed as some sort of rebuttal to the lack of level requirements.

You also can't fast travel everywhere, because you need to first FIND all of the locations the main quest brings you to.

Weynon Priory and Kvatch are pre-discovered to prevent the player from having to do any playing. The many gates you have to closer are all ten feet outside the towns. Same with the temple.

Whether or not you like the main quest is pretty irrelevant to what we're talking about, should I assume since you neglected to mention any of the things I said in my last post besides a half sentence quote taken out of context that you agree with the points I made?

You made essentially two points. In arguing with me, you're just apologizing for bad game design and pacing.