Skyrim may be irreparably broken on PS3

[fenrizz]

Just stumbled upon these article on Skyrim:

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/121/1213924p1.html
http://ps3.dashhacks.com/2011/12/05/new-vegas-devs-2-cents-skyrims-ps3-probs

In short:

The PS3 has 512MB RAM, 256mb for graphics and 256MB for system.
The bigger the save gets, the less memory the system has left, hence the lag and freezes.
Xbox 360 and PC divides it's memory differently and are thus less affected.

One user asks Sawyer if the size of the save file is indeed the cause of these issues. Sawyer responded by saying that the size of save files could "be a big problem, especially if you're on the PS3. The longer you play a character, the more bit differences on objects (characters, pencils on tables, containers, etc.) get saved off and carried around in memory." His mention of "bit differences" is a reference to a bit field, which is a way data can be stored.

So there it is, Skyrim might be irreparably broken for the PS3.

Thoughts, angry letters and rants are welcome below.

 

[Twilight_guy]

[a href="http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.330042-Dev-explains-why-Skyrim-lag-wont-get-fixed"]Ninjas stole your thread[/a]

Original post:

Damn it Obsidian made New Vegas, I actually know that one.

It's not lag unless it deal with network speeds what your referring to is just regular old slow frame rate due to what I would consider a memory leak. (although its not). Gamebryo is ridiculously broken and stupid but I can see why they don't want to redesign the sucker. Nobody wants to make a new engine since it takes forever and in the end you wind up with something that cost a ton and to players looks almost identical.

New post:

Gamebryo is broken. Everyone knows this. It would be difficult and prohibitively expensive to write a new engine so everyone is stuck with the one they made.

 

[scorptatious]

Damn. That sucks. I have a friend that owns the PS3 version of Skyrim. He's probably not going to (if not already) be happy with the increasingly frequent lag and freezes the farther he gets into it.

 

[VincentR]

Christ, guess I'll have to stop dicking around in Skyrim and hurry up and finish it. God. I hoped New Vegas would have been a wake up call; I also wish the US had something similar to the UK Sale of Goods law or whatever, that lets you return products that don't work as advertised. I'd take this sucker back quick as I could and just wait till HD prices go down and I set up my new computer. I can wait, dammit.

For anyone wondering though, the game IS tons of fun, and I highly recommend it - just not for PS3, apparently.

(I'm aware I'm probably BUTCHERING the way that the law actually works over there, but you know what I mean right?)

 

[4RM3D]

Is it necessary to save the position of every spec of dust in the game world? If this breaks the game for PS3 owners in the long run, then a solution would be not to save everything. But Bethesda would have to be careful as that might get exploited.

 

[fenrizz]

[a href="http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.330042-Dev-explains-why-Skyrim-lag-wont-get-fixed"]Ninjas stole your thread[/a]

Original post:

Damn it Obsidian made New Vegas, I actually know that one.

It's not lag unless it deal with network speeds what your referring to is just regular old slow frame rate due to what I would consider a memory leak. (although its not). Gamebryo is ridiculously broken and stupid but I can see why they don't want to redesign the sucker. Nobody wants to make a new engine since it takes forever and in the end you wind up with something that cost a ton and to players looks almost identical.

New post:

Gamebryo is broken. Everyone knows this. It would be difficult and prohibitively expensive to write a new engine so everyone is stuck with the one they made.

Oh snap!
Damn dirty ninjas, they are after me I tell you!

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

Wow. I'm not sure whether to laugh at Sony for still selling hardware so outdated that it can't even handle a save game, or to give a look of utter confusion to Bethesda for somehow getting a glorified text file big enough that it takes up a significant portion of a 256 megabyte memory register.

 

[Macgyvercas]

Couldn't you just, I don't know, DELETE the old save files?

 

[fenrizz]

Wow. I'm not sure whether to laugh at Sony for still selling hardware so outdated that it can't even handle a save game, or to give a look of utter confusion to Bethesda for somehow getting a glorified text file big enough that it takes up a significant portion of a 256 megabyte memory register.

It's not Sony's fault really.
Bethesda knew very well (or at least should) how the PS3 handles memory.

Also, the PS3 (as with the XBOX 360 and Wii) need to be compatible with past and future games and games made for PS3 needs to be compatible with past and future PS3's.
Hence they can't go and change the hardware in any significant way.

This "promise" is part of the appeal of consoles you know.

Couldn't you just, I don't know, DELETE the old save files?

But then you also delete all your progress.
A fresh save would not have the same problems initially, they accumulate as you progress trough the game and the save get's bigger.

 

[targren]

Is it necessary to save the position of every spec of dust in the game world? If this breaks the game for PS3 owners in the long run, then a solution would be not to save everything. But Bethesda would have to be careful as that might get exploited.

I think making the game work for the people who bought it might be just a tad more important than worrying about exploits in a single-player game...

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

Wow. I'm not sure whether to laugh at Sony for still selling hardware so outdated that it can't even handle a save game, or to give a look of utter confusion to Bethesda for somehow getting a glorified text file big enough that it takes up a significant portion of a 256 megabyte memory register.

It's not Sony's fault really.
Bethesda knew very well (or at least should) how the PS3 handles memory.

Also, the PS3 (as with the XBOX 360 and Wii) need to be compatible with past and future games and games made for PS3 needs to be compatible with past and future PS3's.
Hence they can't go and change the hardware in any significant way.

This "promise" is part of the appeal of consoles you know.

I know. The real problem here is the sheer size of the save file; I wasn't kidding when I called it a glorified text file. Unless something has changed in the last year or two, that is literally what they are. Heck, you know what changed when we moved from password saves to battery saves? The password was saved in memory, rather than on a sheet of paper. Save files have gotten bigger since then, but they haven't fundamentally changed.

Edit: Oh, as for significant hardware changes, it's called the PS4, which would have been out by now if this were any other hardware generation. The recession has kind of screwed up the console cycle, but the hardware cycle that drives it is still very much alive.

 

[4RM3D]

Is it necessary to save the position of every spec of dust in the game world? If this breaks the game for PS3 owners in the long run, then a solution would be not to save everything. But Bethesda would have to be careful as that might get exploited.

I think making the game work for the people who bought it might be just a tad more important than worrying about exploits in a single-player game...

Aye, hence my suggestion. But at the same time I am imagining an infinite respawn exploit, because of unsaved "variables". But yeah, first things first.

 

[scar_47]

Its no more "broken" than any Bethesda game since Oblivion they've all used the same system for keeping track of game data and have all had the same issues. Its pretty rare that the lag gets bad enough to last more than a few seconds otherwise this would have been a huge issue with Oblivion, Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas. Its been a known issue for all that time and isn't that big of a deal since its not a problem for the majority of people.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

Its no more "broken" than any Bethesda game since Oblivion they've all used the same system for keeping track of game data and have all had the same issues. Its pretty rare that the lag gets bad enough to last more than a few seconds otherwise this would have been a huge issue with Oblivion, Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas. Its been a known issue for all that time and isn't that big of a deal since its not a problem for the majority of people.

Probably since Morrowind, actually, which was the first Bethesda game running on the Gamebryo engine. Daggerfall ran on an in house engine (which was pretty advanced for its time) called XEngine, while Arena ran on an in house raycasting engine, which again, was pretty advanced for its time.

 

[Tourmeta]

Not had any problems since patch, yet of course.

 

[Rhaff]

Is it necessary to save the position of every spec of dust in the game world? If this breaks the game for PS3 owners in the long run, then a solution would be not to save everything. But Bethesda would have to be careful as that might get exploited.

If i remember correctly, the reason the game has to save everything, is because of the radiant AI/story mcguffin. It needs to adjust the radiant quests and random encounters according to your choices elsewhere, hence the need to save everything. But like i said, this is if i remember correctly, if anyone else knows the reason for sure, the please feel free to correct me.

 

[Nico4]

Yea, I doubt it's thanks to the PS3 itself. The Gamebryo engine isn't the worst engine out there, but it's so buggy it's sometimes unbelieveable.

 

[lemby117]

(I'm aware I'm probably BUTCHERING the way that the law actually works over there, but you know what I mean right?)

Your not realy butchiering it, the key phrase is "fit for purpose" and Skyrim on PS3 is not fit for purpose.

 

[Tartarga]

Well I guess it's a damn good thing I haven't gotten Skyrim yet, I have it on my PC but the frame rate is a bit choppy so I was going to get it on my console. Hopefully they'll have this fixed by the time the game of the year edition comes out, assuming there is one of course.