Skyrim truly looks outdated and average

[omega 616]

Watch from 0:25 of part 2, as the enemy's friend is killed right in front of him, he reacts by putting his fists up and staring at the wall behind his friend's dead body, not looking around, not thinking "Hmm, I do wonder where that sure looking arrow came from" but instead he effectively challenges the cave wall to a duel and is taken advantage of by the player, some would technically call this broken gameplay; Immersion null.

Name any game that does that? In every game I have played no other NPC notices the death of his allies. A guard that has been walking the same path for 20 hours in MGS, will not miss another guard on his patrol route if he goes missing.

Now watch 3:07, Mr Deathlord is obviously smashing through that wall there, not for fun, but with the sole intention of smashing the said player with his rather large axe.
He smashes through, then stands still for two seconds, also perplexed by the wall in front of him, perhaps the AI is so smart that it is amazed by the visuals you say? I think not.

Not only does this skeletal chap have a stupid AI system working against his favour, but he also appears to be some kind of ghost or spirit, the player slashes and stabs with his blade and the guy doesn't seem to move or react at all to this.

Same again, games have this inability to make people react to shots, there are some games that do it well but most of the time enemies fall over 'cos all the lead in them weigh them down. Sure loads of games have legs and arms flying in all directions but the person never seems to fussed.

Sigh.. now on to a hilarious one I saw (i'm sure you all noticed this one, but subconciously forgot about it due to it's absolute outrageousness) watch part 3, about 1:17, Mr Giant looms toward the player, swinging his axe (which barely makes the player move when hit) and is then picked up by a passing dragon, and dropped to his embarassing death, watch how the giant just freezes as he is falling (very slowly) to his death, not rotating, not flipping, not even cursing the dragon as he is pulled by the unrealistic gravity of the oh so wonderful Bethesda's Creation engine, another enemy lost in the midst of Bethesda's bugs.

Skyrim's AI looks basically identical to Oblivion as well as the physics, which basically means the new Elder Scrolls is stuck in the past, if this wins Game Of The Year, then it will be a sad time for gaming.

Are you seriously surprised by this? The game is absolutely huge! With almost no loading times and they still do a damn site better job of making the game look real than 99% of games out there.

EDIT as of 13/9/2011 16:20 PST:
After looking through a lot of replies to this post I can see that there are a few on how the demo is old, and some about how AI is apparently very difficult to program.
If the latter is true, then how is it that we have AI players in games such as PES 2012 and Total War: Shogun 2, more often that not outsmarting players when they play in real time, anticipating what players do, what they are going to do, and (in PES) learning how a player plays, and taking advantage of and exposing the players weaknesses.

Yes, we have balls in PES and Fifa flying with life like grace but that game is so basic compared to Skyrim. What does PES have to do? Have nice grass, good ball and NPC/player physics and have good AI, there isn't anything else to it and it's all done after a loading screen in a tiny pitch. Compared to all the day and night cycles, dragons and animals roaming around, all the NPC's buying bread or whatever, rendering huge worlds etc. skyrim has loads more to do than PES!

All in all I think you are expecting far too much from Skyrim, it is just a game made in 2011. Maybe in 2050 we can have games like skyrim that are totally accurate to real life with the added fun of dragons flying around in a fantasy setting but give the game a break!

It is still a billion miles ahead of PES and other games.

 

[Byrne Kennedy]

"Facepalm" that is all.

 

[Jonsbax]

"I have an opinion that differs from the crowed"-thread #193423 and counting.

You think that Skyrim is overrated, I think that Kingdom Hearts II and MGS4 are turds in pretty packaging, and people will care as little as you and I care when people hate on games we happen to like or we are excited about. Changes are most people aknowledge most of the problems you base your hate on, but there's something else in the game that appeals to them.

People will want to make their own judgement, or at least wait opinions from people whose opinions they actually care about.

 

[Cowabungaa]

Usually people wait till there's at least a demo before that reaction. Plus Skyrim, everyone's been waiting for it for years, you'd think there'd be some leeway granted.

Naw, this is Bethesda. They're highly overrated when it comes to anything involving game engines and visuals. Still shots always look pretty, but the second anyone moves it falls apart pretty bad.

If it doesn't crash.

That's because, for some odd reason, they used a horrible engine in Oblivion and the recent Fallout games. And they've ditched that engine, finally.

 

[Joseph Alexander]

Well, I don't care about graphics and am happy my computer won't get it up the bum this time.

i don't think you get what hes complaining about...
its the window-licking, wall-hugging, shortbus-riding retarded A.I. hes frustrated with.

Shrug. AI is hard. I mean, like computer science PhD hard. You can always hire some computer monkey to add more polygons to your models or pixels to your textures. Its a safe investment.

Edit: Let me put it this way. As games we won't be happy with the AI in our games until they pass the Turing Test, in a sense. You want your AI to play as well (or better) than a competent Human player. That's asking a fair bit.

not really, its as justified as people asking for better graphical improvements.
actually... even more so, cause it at elast improves the game play.

now i'm not wanting a full blown learning A.I. program, I'm wanting them to not abandon cover and walk(literally) right into their own rocket fire.
I'm not asking for high intelligence, I'm just asking for something better then retardation.
hell even the fear games had enemy S.I. that could compile data, end up avoiding killzones, and even sneak up and flank you.
granted they weren't very good at it and they didn't keep that level of S.I. through the games but still... it isn't much to ask for enemies to NOT WALK OVER THE 15 CORPSES OF THEIR FALLEN COMRADES RIGHT INTO YOUR SNIPER SCOPE FOR YOUR 16TH HEAD SHOT IN A ROW.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

That's because, for some odd reason, they used a horrible engine in Oblivion and the recent Fallout games. And they've ditched that engine, finally.

Gamebyro? It seems like for the better part of a decade, everything that wasn't done on Source was done on Gamebyro. It's one of the most ubiquitous engines of all time.

But yeah it was kind of shit.

 

[Levethian]

Footage from these demos was used for their trailer released in February, so this build is presumably at least 8 months old.

Still, there should be ways to disguise AI to seem more alive and less stilted.

as the enemy's friend is killed right in front of him, he reacts by putting his fists up and staring at the wall behind his friend's dead body

Here, the reaction should be to frantically look around, or hide - not stare at a wall. Hopefully this has improved in the past 8 months.

And you can't parry with a sword? *sigh*...

 

[DracoSuave]

That's because, for some odd reason, they used a horrible engine in Oblivion and the recent Fallout games. And they've ditched that engine, finally.

Morrowind didn't exactly use the prettiest engine either.

Unless they get John Carmack or some-such on board, it's not rational to believe they'll suddenly learn how to game engine, when this is something they've never proven any proficiency in in their entire time in business.

Next time you'll try to sell me 'The Obsidian Does Quality Control Bridge' or the 'Peter Molyneux Will Deliver On His Hype Toll Span' or 'The Bridge Over Stratford-on-Madden-2012-Will-Not-Be-The-Same-As-2011'

 

[Cowabungaa]

Morrowind didn't exactly use the prettiest engine either.

Unless they get John Carmack or some-such on board, it's not rational to believe they'll suddenly learn how to game engine, when this is something they've never proven any proficiency in in their entire time in business.

Next time you'll try to sell me 'The Obsidian Does Quality Control Bridge' or the 'Peter Molyneux Will Deliver On His Hype Toll Span' or 'The Bridge Over Stratford-on-Madden-2012-Will-Not-Be-The-Same-As-2011'

Not quite sure which point you're trying to make here. Morrowind used the Gamebryo engine as well. It also shouldn't be forgotten that Bethesda did not make Gamebryo themselves, though they did make the Creation engine used in Skyrim.

As for Obisidian, those poor sods made games that were just released too early thanks to publishers pushing them. The poor bastards have their hearts in the right place you know.

Gamebyro? It seems like for the better part of a decade, everything that wasn't done on Source was done on Gamebyro. It's one of the most ubiquitous engines of all time.

But yeah it was kind of shit.

Strangely, Wikipedia lists only a relatively small number of games that used it. It's just that a number of really high profile games used it, that all showed it's horrible problems in abundance. That just gave it a big reputation.

It's more like anything that wasn't done on Source was made with the Unreal engine. Now that is a ubiquitous engine, or more like a series of engines, and luckily also a really damn good one.

 

[naam]

"Over 150 handcrafted dungeons"
i wonder how many da2 had

 

[5t3v0]

No but you can blame someone for trying, failing epically, and then charging $60 for it anyway.
I never expect a Bethesda (or any sort of open world game) to be bug free or to have very sharp AI, but they have let some things go to the shelves when it?s painfully obvious that it still needs work.
Hopefully this will buck the trend but I doubt it. I do look forward to exploring Skyrim but I can wait for GOTY and especially the patches: at minimum, I?ll save some money, but if my suspicions are correct, I?ll save some money and a lot of frustration.

Except they didn't fail epic-ly. Yes, There were stability issues for users, doesn't mean it was comepletely terrible (Nor happened to everyone. I reckon it was more of a coin toss. Much like Fallout 3 was as well). The whole Idea is talked up by the people who chose to suffer, chose to complain because it wasn't Fallout 3, then complained because it was too much like fallout 3.

And anyway, it was bethesda who got obsidian, who are a game company who put a lot of depth and choice in their RPG's which create potential for problems if not done right, to rush the game out the door so it can compete with Fable.

 

[Daveman]

Well I just think you're being a bit picky. I'm sure they could make all those improvements but they've got to turn out a finished product. Personally, the first two issues you had with the AI, I didn't even notice, I guess I'm more able to suspend my disbelief or whatever but I'm just saying, I saw them both and then I read your comments and even watching back they didn't phase me.

The giant falling through the air is a bit of physics, but hey, games aren't perfect, but you also say he wasn't knocked back... even though he clearly was! I'm just impressed they could make a random dragon pick up a random creature in a random place, it's the type of thing that in any other game you would assume it would be scripted and yet in this it isn't.

I dunno, call me simpleton but it looks fucking fine and I just consider anyone who says otherwise to be a whiny *****. /fanboyness

 

[DracoSuave]

Not quite sure which point you're trying to make here. Morrowind used the Gamebryo engine as well. It also shouldn't be forgotten that Bethesda did not make Gamebryo themselves, though they did make the Creation engine used in Skyrim.

As for Obisidian, those poor sods made games that were just released too early thanks to publishers pushing them. The poor bastards have their hearts in the right place you know.

Having your heart in the right place is not going to magically make the ability to put a game that doesn't have glaring awful bugs that cause regular crashing on common system set ups. Having your hear tin the right place doesn't show a commitment to polish or quality assurance so that only small, inconsequential bugs get through.

We're not talking minor bugs that slipped unnotice. We're talking 'The system crashes regardless of platform' style bugs... the sort you can't just explain away with 'graphics driver issues' or 'we can't test all hardware set ups.' When it happens on multiple platforms in precisely the same manner, that's a bug in the code itself, not in drivers, not in hardware, but 100% pure software.

When PS3 has a bug, that other platforms don't, you can have a case to blame the platform, or at best, the port process. If the PC has a bug that the others don't, you can blame individual hareware set ups and probably be right.

But across ALL platforms, the same bugs, time and time again? That's a core issue with the code itself, and given the ubiquity and common nature of these bugs, as well as their replicability? They should have been caught before Oblivion came out, well before Fallout 3 came out. ANd FONV has NO excuse whatsoever.

Bethesda CANNOT QA to save their lives, and it shows in every product they make. When evidence points to this, to believe 'this time they'll get it right!' is insanity. First, they need to show a single instance where they DO get it right.

You can't blame Gamebryo for the bug in New Vegas that caused it to overwrite saves for no reason. That's not a graphics engine problem. You can't blame Gamebryo for constant crashing and shutdowns... other games use Gamebryo with no where NEAR the amount of problems.

You CAN blame Bethesda for apparently not catching these things, and not doing enough before release OR AFTER RELEASE to fix them. Moreover, even if you can forgive a single instance, even if you can say 'Hey, it's plausible they missed the freezing bugs with texture loading when Pblivion came out!' by the time a year passed after released, it was a known issue across all platforms.

Which means that Bethesda MUST have known about it, or chose to be ignorant. Neither is acceptable. Then they released Fallout 3. Same bugs. No surprises. Not to mention patches that actually made it worse before it got better.

Then Fallout New Fegas. Same bugs, that they should have known about for years.

So, obviously, they don't have quality assurance worth a damn. And now they're playing with a new game engine for this game. With a bugtesting crew that can't find bugs, and a bug-fixing crew that can't fix them.

Exactly where is this 'hope' coming from?

 

[Machocruz]

Morrowind didn't exactly use the prettiest engine either.

I think technical deficiencies were a fair trade off for the amount of content and variety Morrowind had, which exceeds any current mainstream RPG, including all of Bethesda's games since.

Oblivion/Fallout 3 are technically janky AND have lightweight content compared to their predecessors.

 

[Arkiel]

Not entirely happy with the AI either, but I can certainly live with it since ES have never really been known for their exceptional AI and yet the franchise has one of the biggest fanbases around, due to other aspects that outweigh the shortcomings. Anyway, this material, like others have already said, is several months old. Watch the quakecon demo and see the giant fall to his death in a much better animation. Granted, when you actually do watch the quakecon material you'll see the dragon flying in a rather unrealistic way, like rotating in mid-air and changing its direction. But I have faith that this is an issue, alongside other (as I feel them) minor issues, that has been worked on since then. I do know that the game will have its flaws, but I do also know that they won't bother me much when I'm playing the **** out of it. For me (!) it's gonna be the game of the century so far and 11.11.11 can't come soon enough. :]

 

[MasterSpaceman]

The game does look pretty average. I just can't wait to be playing Hardcore, have next to no healing items or equipment and WHAM! Dragon shows up. Try to run? Nope, it's going to hunt you. Drop everything useless and cower in a cave for a while? Plan.

 

[Baldr]

I would like to point out, that there are scenes in the trailer posted around February that come exactly from these three videos. So I would assume that these videos are older than 7 months, just now released to the media. That is an eternity in game development time.

 

[Inkidu]

A. It's still three months away.
B. They can't do everything. A.I.'s always been the tricky beast.
C. This is the basic nature of all fictional things. They naturally deconstruct themselves.

D. It has a dragon chucking fucking giants. I don't give a shit about anything else.

 

[Inkidu]

"Over 150 handcrafted dungeons"
i wonder how many da2 had

About ten, but I still played that game four times.

Actually, it was kind of refreshing to crawl the same dungeons over and over. A novel concept really. However, I have never played a Bioware games because they offered exploration. I play them because they offer side boob an above average story with compelling characters.

 

[Zack1501]

so your friend just falls to the ground mid sentence. what do you do? it might be just me but i don't spin around and try and look for people around me. I would probably stand there in shock to for a couple of seconds.