Skyrim's combat and the action RPG genre

[Scars Unseen]

So I got in a debate on the internet(for shame) about TES combat. He(or she... I can never tell) says that TES has some of the worst combat of any video game ever, and I maintain that the series has made steady improvements with each iteration, with the most recent game being pretty passable mechanically, with only a bit of tweaking and rebalancing through mods to be made genuinely good. His response was that I should go ask about Skyrim's combat on a third party site like The Escapist(hive of scum and villany that it is). So... hi.

It's been 6 months. You've played it, you may have modded it, and you've had time to reflect. What do you think about the actual combat of Skyrim, and how do you think it stacks up to other action RPGs? Where on the action to stat'n strategy scale do you prefer your action RPGs? If you dislike Skyrim's combat, what do you hold to be an example of a great action RPG?

 

[SajuukKhar]

The combat has gotten better with each game.... but it is still terrible.

weapons dont look like they are hitting anything and have no real impact.

 

[Scars Unseen]

The combat has gotten better with each game.... but it is still terrible.

weapons dont look like they are hitting anything and have no real impact.

I'll accept that as a valid point, but I'm mostly talking about the game mechanics themselves(e.g. Morrowind's automatic block calculation and "best attack" problem).

 

[AndrewF022]

I thought the combat was great, much improved on the previous games, definitely moved further down the 'action' side of things, but that in itself is not a bad thing IMO. This is honestly the first Bethesda game that I have not wanted to mod the combat of yet. That being said, it still breaks down pretty much to 'bash the dude over the head until he dies' style of action combat, theres not much strategy involved beyond 'run up to guy mashing Left-Click'.

As for the greatest examples of action RPG gameplay, I'd still be putting Deus Ex (first and third installments in particular) as being some of the best I have played, as well as The Witcher 2, which I thought was much improved on the first game as well, with combat relying on reflex, tactics and stats/gear equally, which I think is important for Action RPGs, the balance.

 

[Rack]

I pretty much agree with you, it isn't Demon's Souls and I think Witcher 2 and notably Fallout: New Vegas were better but with the right mods, most importantly Thuumic or an extra hotkey mod it's passable and I actually prefer it to Amalur's combat.

Trying not to derail the topic completely though I'd say action strategy and stats tend to be independant. You have action/stat games like Diablo, strategy/stat games like Final Fantasy Tactics and stat games with neither action nor strategy such as main series Final Fantasy. I like pretty much all my games to be largely statless, I don't think Skyrim had quite enough perks but even in tabletop RPGs I prefer non-numerical ways of describing characters.

 

[TehCookie]

It's pretty bad, when I first got it the only thing that kept me playing it was the beautiful world. It's so slow and unvaried, or I'm playing it wrong since I never felt like grinding to get good at different skill sets and having to carry the extra weight to switch in battle. Especially when opening up the menu in battle leaves an obvious clunk, I should of made it possible to bind items to keys so you don't have to pause to menu to use a potion. I also hate the fact there's no dodging, when I try the hitboxes are so weird I'll get hit by an attack when the sword never touched me.

I also dislike their balance of magic, usually I like playing a glass cannon mage where whoever gets hit first dies. The spells aren't that strong and I still die just as quickly. Turns out sneak archers are that role so I finally had fun after I discovered that.

Then again I don't play much action RPGs, I either go with complete action games or RPGs with turn based or strategy. Though one improvement Skyrim could of had is a skillbar to at least vary up the attacks or have shout cooldown be shorter so it's useable in battle.

 

[almostgold]

You've played it, you may have modded it, and you've had time to reflect. What do you think about the actual combat of Skyrim, and how do you think it stacks up to other action RPGs? Where on the action to stat'n strategy scale do you prefer your action RPGs?

TES gets better with each game, and Skyrim alternated between bearaable and fun for me. My problem was with the lack of weight and contact in the combat. If two fully armored men rush at each other swinging weapons, we should collide with force. I never felt like my weapon was actually connecting with the enemy. Probly why I liked archery so much. Can't tell.

As for stats, Im always a fan of the method where stat/level increases change NOTICEABLE attribute of combat. Doing more damage is fine, but what if the speed you swung you sword got a little faster each level? Then the player actually notices a change in combat with supposedly increasing skill, and can learn new tricks and styles to adjust.. Didn't have time to interrupt an axes power attack at level 10? Suddenly at level 30, you realize you now can and can go on the offensive instead of merely blocking. Boom. Noticeable, tangible, player-co-dependant skill increase.

 

[Zhukov]

The combat in the TES games has gradually improved with each game.

However, it's still utter poop.

One of the reasons I got bored with Skyrim was discovering that all I had to do was stroll up to an enemy and mash the attack button while slurping the occasional health potion.

And that's not even going into how easy it is to break or exploit.

As for examples of action-RPGs with better combat... Deus Ex Human Revolution, Mass Effect 3, Witcher 2, Dark Souls, Kingdoms of Amalur.

 

[DustyDrB]

I actually prefer Oblivion's combat to Skyrim's, mostly because of the lack of Athletics, Speed, Agility and Acrobatics. They really underestimate the importance of movement. I built a ton of "glass cannon" fighters who relied on speed, stamina, and agility to take be successful. Dual-wielding is a massive disappointment in Skyrim. I wanted it to be faster...

Not to say Oblivion's combat was good. Nope. It was not.

I generally just prefer to stick to bows in Skyrim. It at least feels right and it makes me think about my positioning.

 

[BathorysGraveland]

Well, I actually like it, myself. At least as far as shield and sword goes. I like those little moments were you and your foe stare at each other over the tops of your shields, hit your sword on the side of it and then proceed into battle once more. It has a pretty cool feel and I like how it isn't just a button mashing as I like to use my agility to move around a lot, avoiding hits and stuff and then retreating behind some cover to drink a potion or something. I don't know, it just feels good for me.

 

[Korten12]

The combat in the TES games has gradually improved with each game.

However, it's still utter poop.

One of the reasons I got bored with Skyrim was discovering that all I had to do was stroll up to an enemy and mash the attack button while slurping the occasional health potion.

And that's not even going into how easy it is to break or exploit.

As for examples of action-RPGs with better combat... Deus Ex Human Revolution, Mass Effect 3, Witcher 2, Dark Souls, Kingdoms of Amalur.

Elder Scrolls + Dark Souls combat = Awesomeness.

 

[Smooth Operator]

Well it has gotten better but it is still very bad, I can't think of many games that do it worse actually.
That's mostly why I stick with ranged weapons so I don't have to deal with most of the horribleness.

 

[veloper]

Overal TES games are somewhere at the bottom when it comes to the action part. Skyrim belongs somewhere below mediocrity level, below all those RPshooters(even including FO3 when you stick to firearms).

Focussing on melee Skyrim is still below ARPGs games like DS, Dark Messiah of MM, Witcher 2, Gothic 2, Amalur.

 

[Zhukov]

The combat in the TES games has gradually improved with each game.

However, it's still utter poop.

One of the reasons I got bored with Skyrim was discovering that all I had to do was stroll up to an enemy and mash the attack button while slurping the occasional health potion.

And that's not even going into how easy it is to break or exploit.

As for examples of action-RPGs with better combat... Deus Ex Human Revolution, Mass Effect 3, Witcher 2, Dark Souls, Kingdoms of Amalur.

Shitty comparison, the only melee attacks in Deus Ex are button prompts and Mass Effect 3 is primarily a shooter.

So?

He didn't specify that the combat had to be melee-based. He just asked for examples of action-RPG combat that we like. Those games I listed are action-RPGs with combat that I like and regard as being better than what is found in Skyrim.

If you want to argue about what genre particular games fit into then I'm afraid you'll have to go and find someone who gives a flying fuck.

 

[IBlackKiteI]

In comparison with other action RPG's? Great.

In comparison with most other games? Crap.

 

[Scars Unseen]

The combat in the TES games has gradually improved with each game.

However, it's still utter poop.

One of the reasons I got bored with Skyrim was discovering that all I had to do was stroll up to an enemy and mash the attack button while slurping the occasional health potion.

And that's not even going into how easy it is to break or exploit.

As for examples of action-RPGs with better combat... Deus Ex Human Revolution, Mass Effect 3, Witcher 2, Dark Souls, Kingdoms of Amalur.

Shitty comparison, the only melee attacks in Deus Ex are button prompts and Mass Effect 3 is primarily a shooter.

So?

He didn't specify that the combat had to be melee-based. He just asked for examples of action-RPG combat that we like. Those games I listed are action-RPGs with combat that I like and regard as being better than what is found in Skyrim.

If you want to argue about what genre particular games fit into then I'm afraid you'll have to go and find someone who gives a flying fuck.

No worries. While I was thinking more about the melee side, your point is valid even if it does make direct comparison difficult. To be fair, I actually agree that Dark Souls' combat is better than unmodded Skyrim's. I haven't played Witcher 2 because I haven't gotten around to finishing the first one, and I haven't any plans to get KoA because the art style just doesn't appeal to me(I would be less picky if I was starving for RPGs, but I've got more games than time right now).