Skyrim's combat and the action RPG genre

[RedDeadFred]

Honestly I like Skyrim's combat. It feels weighty and gritty. Honestly I don't know where this "I feel like I'm not hitting anything" nonsense is coming from because the only time I feel that is when I'm fighting a dragon. Everything else feels very satisfying to bring a warhammer down onto.
Then there's the magic. I feel that this has undergone the greatest improvement from Oblivion in that there are actually a lot of different animations and you can't just make a spell that fits all situations.
Stealth is as fun as always. Stalking the prey and then rolling out from the shadows behind them to slit their throat never really gets old for me.

Sure the combat isn't as good as action RPG's but that is to be expected because that's not what Skyrim is really about. It's about the world and then being whatever you want to be in that world. I can see how this doesn't jive for some but this is the best kind of game for me.

 

[skywolfblue]

It's pretty terrible. Much better the oblivion, good enough to be palatable, but not good enough to be truly enjoyable on its own.

- Third person, where you're aiming isn't always where the fireball/arrow will go.
- Clang clang clang repetitive one-button fighting (Hell, Assassin's Creed is largely one-button but it has weight and dodging and other context sensitive stuff so that it's not always the same)
- Jerky character movement hampers smooth combat. It's hard to hit someone when they're pathing around like a twitchy squirrel on steroids.

 

[Scow2]

That, and the fact that you will never have enough points to put into everything you want, and then not implementing some kind of function that regains your perk points should be outlawed.

I thought I would address this for a moment. If I could pick only one thing that I could hate about World of Warcraft, it would be that it either started or popularized the idea that we should be able to reset our character's abilities on a whim in a role playing game, and that any game that doesn't allow you to is shit. If I was playing D&D and told my DM that I wanted to scratch all my feats and start my character over again, he'd tell me I should just roll up a new character if I wanted to do that.

Now I understand the feature's existence in an MMO: those fuckers can't leave game balance alone for 2 weeks, so why should you get stuck with a build that has suddenly become broken due to developer fiat? But in a game that doesn't change(beyond patches fixing technical problems)? Well I'm not going to complain if the feature exists(I can ignore it after all), but it most certainly shouldn't be considered a flaw that a game actually makes you decide on something and have that decision stick. Hell, if you have the PC version you can just use the console to remove the old perks and give yourself the ones you want.

Okay. Minirant over.

The only GMs that don't allow me to adjust a feat or skillpoint distribution that is not working out at all for my characters in games like D&D are generally assholes. The problem with Skyrim isn't a lack of total perk-point reset, but a complete lack of any redistribution of perks.

Honestly... I couldn't stand Dark Soul's combat, and the only thing I liked about it over Skyrim's was the ability to land on enemy's heads with my sword. Sword+Board and Two-handed weapons were very fun in Skyrim.

With Bethesda, it's more like you have to go out of your way to try and find out how NOT to break the game. Their rpg mechanics/leveling system is so fucked up and ass backwards.

Like with Oblivion, you had to pick your major skills as ones you really didn't want to be your main ones, otherwise you would over level yourself, because everything levels with you...Just complete and udder nonsensical retardation.

I don't think Skyrim has quite the same problems, but it's Bethesda, I'm sure it has other ones. Their whole more you use it, the better you get at it system makes sense realistically, but just doesn't translate well AT ALL to a high fantasy rpg. (where realism shouldn't be a focus anyway)

Actually... I find the passive improvement of commonly-used abilities to be the best skill system ever seen in an RPG.

I'm not sure what "Action-RPGs" have a better combat system than Skyrim's - I like the absolute control I have over my character. The only complaint I have about it is the inability to tap the "Sprint" button in a direction other than forward to move quickly out of the way.

 

[Woodsey]

I hated Morrowind's combat, thought Oblivion's was alright, and liked Skyrim's. It's not as reactionary as it could be, but it still felt weighty and satisfying. I mostly played with a bow and arrow though, so nailing someone with a well-timed shot and seeing their body rag-doll may be more interesting than hitting someone's shield a lot.

I wish they'd let you choose whether you had a first or third-person kill-cam though.

With Bethesda, it's more like you have to go out of your way to try and find out how NOT to break the game. Their rpg mechanics/leveling system is so fucked up and ass backwards.

Like with Oblivion, you had to pick your major skills as ones you really didn't want to be your main ones, otherwise you would over level yourself, because everything levels with you...Just complete and udder nonsensical retardation.

I don't think Skyrim has quite the same problems, but it's Bethesda, I'm sure it has other ones. Their whole more you use it, the better you get at it system makes sense realistically, but just doesn't translate well AT ALL to a high fantasy rpg. (where realism shouldn't be a focus anyway)

Have you played Skyrim?

That, and the fact that you will never have enough points to put into everything you want, and then not implementing some kind of function that regains your perk points should be outlawed.

You shouldn't ever have the ability to put points into everything. Permanency is a lost art.

Your whole post makes it sound like you're coming at it from a MMORPG perspective actually, which is... odd. I mean sure, you could grind your sneak up, but no one's going to do that unless they really want to, and the only person it's ever going to affect is you. I'm not sure the obsession with everything being perfectly balanced is inherently a good one when it comes to single-player. Oddities that only a few people are going to stumble upon just adds that extra bit of character.

 

[kommando367]

You can decapitate people with blunt weapons and the animations for killing dragons look bad, but that's about it.

 

[Richardplex]

I actually prefer Oblivion's combat to Skyrim's, mostly because of the lack of Athletics, Speed, Agility and Acrobatics. They really underestimate the importance of movement. I built a ton of "glass cannon" fighters who relied on speed, stamina, and agility to take be successful..

My thoughts exactly, I liked (moreso than vanilla skyrim anyway) weaving in and out of attack range and smacking an enemy with a claymore, wearing only light armour so I had to get out before being hit.

Skyrim's combat was unplayable for me until I got mods for it. Now If I don't block attacks, I'm likely to die (2 2h hits will kill me for example without blocking). I also get staggered from taking direct hits, same goes for the enemy. Made the combat fairly intense.

So to answer you, without mods no, Oblivions' beats Skyrim's combat. Both run miles around Morrowwind, but that's a given, since Morrowwind's combat is absolute arse.

Better combat? See most other action RPGs.

It flummoxes me that combat like that can exist nowadays when games like Dark Souls and The Witcher 2 continually push the envelope in their combat departments.

Yeah, there are a variety of mystifying design decisions in TES. Like the leveling system. Like, I get that people love sandboxes and throw money at these games, but that's no reason to half-ass massive parts of the game like the combat, the leveling system, and the writing.

The writings a weird one with Skyrim, it's like they had some master writing plan and just... stopped. There's grey vs grey decisions everywhere, which don't amount to anything, and there's a fuck ton of essential NPCs everywhere. Want to join Mjoll and clean up Riften? Nope, Maven Black-briar is essential for the whole game, Riften's fucked forever. Want to clean out those Stormcloak camps on your way to the next mountain to hike? Nope, all the generals are immune. Want to clear out both factions in Markath since neither of them are at all desirable? Nope, arbitrary choice... et cetera. They sacrificed the sandbox for badly done narrative, don't understand.

They

 

[Black Arrow Officer]

Has anyone here played Pirates, Vikings and Knights 2? It's a Half Life 2 mod with fantastic first person combat. It has features Skyrim lacks like directional blocking, counterattacks, and more "powerful" feeling weapons. Every time you slash someone with your sword, blood spurts out and there's an extremely satisfying sound effect of flesh being split to accompany each strike. The combat in that game is much more tight then Skyrim, and maybe Skyrim could learn a thing or two from it.

 

[Rednog]

Not a fan of it, it is just too clunky and doesn't feel more than I press button and we check damage values, rinse and repeat.
Which is kind of bad because you can't always craft a character to your playstyle. I want a sneaky agile guy, ok great I sneak attack a guy with my bow, but if it happens to be something I can't sneak attack like those oh so fun dragons,I'm basically screwed. I can't really use my bow because the second I do I'm going to be right in the dragon's flame breath. When it lands I get to flail at it with my daggers, which are hilariously under leveled. Also, I get to enjoy having a giant chunk of my health ripped away when I get hit by the slightest melee attack since you don't level armor unless someone is beating on you. Which is almost never since I'm a sneaky character. Brb I have to go afk for an hour and let a mudcrab beat on me.

 

[vivalahelvig]

Has anyone here played Pirates, Vikings and Knights 2? It's a Half Life 2 mod with fantastic first person combat. It has features Skyrim lacks like directional blocking, counterattacks, and more "powerful" feeling weapons. Every time you slash someone with your sword, blood spurts out and there's an extremely satisfying sound effect of flesh being split to accompany each strike. The combat in that game is much more tight then Skyrim, and maybe Skyrim could learn a thing or two from it.

That game is the best, I was just playing it. Can't wait for the 2 new classes to come out.

OT: I quite liked morrowinds combat, it had directional strikes.
Only one was a good idea, but still.

Skyrim would be better with Atributes and stuff, making it more RPG-y.

Or just remake Morrowind in Skyrim, but just for better graphics, animations, combat, 'n such.

 

[Scars Unseen]

I'll be honest, if your stance is that you just don't like 1st person melee combat, we will never see eye to eye. I'm not fond of 3rd person perspectives in games that place action above strategy, and I never will be. It annoys the piss out of me when I try to sneak along a wall in Deus Ex: HR and it switches me into third person. Just sucks the immersion right out. Although the shooting itself is pretty balls, one of my favorite action games is Mirror's Edge, partially because the devs for that game seem to be the only ones looking to push the use of first person perspective past where it's been since Quake.

If you find yourself swinging at air in Skyrim, the problem is not with Skyrim, but with your unfamiliarity with the game in that perspective. I've never had such a problem, and I haven't had any problems with situational awareness. The problems I have with Skyrim's combat are mechanical in nature, not based on the series chosen perspective.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

No TES combat has and probably always will be shit. Skyrim improved it in some ways but took massive step backs in others and I would never ever applaud a TES for its combat but they are trying to go in the right direction.

 

[Scow2]

Actually... I find the passive improvement of commonly-used abilities to be the best skill system ever seen in an RPG.

I'm not sure what "Action-RPGs" have a better combat system than Skyrim's

Take your pick ?

It could be that I don't know what an Action-RPG is. None of the Diablo Clones come close, nor do any MMORPGS, or games like Two Worlds, Kingdoms of Amalur, The Witcher, and Previous TES games.

It could just be that Skyrim plays awesome on the Gamepad and sucks on Keyboard+Mouse.