'Slut' Parade

[JonnWood]

With all crimes, the events leading up to it can vary massively and thus shows how responsible the victim was, be it very or not at all.

And in rape, the blame is on the perp, not the victim. Always. Talking about crimes in general is a Composition Fallacy. If all crimes were equal, jaywalkers could get the death sentence.

 

[Trolldor]

I am reminded of Dave Chappelle's skit on a whore's uniform.

i don't mine them dressing to they way they do so long as they don't object to me treating them like a whore.

Meaning you walk up to them and ask how much for the night?

well you cant be that direct as soliciting is quite illegal, but yes more or less. Dont be mad if you get treated that way is all im saying.

Then you can't object to me treating you as I see fit based on what I think of you, no matter how insulting it might be.

if how im dress lets you think that, of course not. I was asking for it

Oh, that's not only what I'm going to judge you on.
Maybe I just don't like the way you walk. Or the sound of your voice. Maybe you have a lisp.
I love judging people for arbitrary reasons and taking a high road for it.

fine by me, remember "to each his own." Sorry if i like to follow societal norms instead of rebelling against it.

I know man! Aren't societal norms just the greatest?

Girl on the left is such a slut, right?

 

[cobra_ky]

Ah, but well all know that a burka is over the top. However if you have a drunk guy and girl in the same room, and the girl has been flirting with him all night and has gone home with him.....not all drunk men could say no, which is the problem.

It's not about whether the drunk guy says no. If either of them say no, the other should stop.

You want to try proposing a scenario where both of the particpants aren't in an altered state?

Sure, innocent girl walking down empty street gets raped by some crazy rapist. What she was doing and what she was wearing had nothing to do with the rape, she was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.
With all crimes, the events leading up to it can vary massively and thus shows how responsible the victim was, be it very or not at all.

so if a drunk girl flirting with a guy can get raped, and a sober girl doing nothing at all can get raped, what makes one victim more or less responsible than the other?

those men have no business drinking. you're still responsible for your actions while drunk, whether you can control them or not.

Very true, but what good is it just to say that? These men still exist. They are still out there and still a danger, hence why the cop warned women as there is little he can do until it is too late. but of course these women did to stop to think about that before jumping into the feminist bandwagon.

he didn't say "don't get drunk and go home with drunk men", he said "don't dress like a slut". there's no good to saying that either, since how you dress has little to do with how likely you are to be raped.

 

[JonnWood]

fine by me, remember "to each his own." Sorry if i like to follow societal norms instead of rebelling against it.

There is a distinct irony in you using posting that bearing the name and likeness of a gunslinging priest.

 

[agrajagthetesty]

JonnWood has already pointed out the most important flaw in your argument here. I'd also just like to add that what a rapist wants is power over another person - to humiliate, control, and psychologically destroy them - rather than the sex itself. Given this, it actually seems that a rapist would be less likely to target a woman that he thinks would be up for sex. After all, if she consents, he can't have that power over her.

well more importantly, if she consents we're not talking about rape anymore. just two people having consensual sex.

Indeed. And that's not what rapists want from people.

 

[JonnWood]

At uni we did a topic on blame assignment in cases of sexual assault. Put simply, men tended to blame the woman more if she was dressed scantily than if she was dressed 'respectably'.

Sample size? Were these men or actual perps?

 

[Griffolion]

At uni we did a topic on blame assignment in cases of sexual assault. Put simply, men tended to blame the woman more if she was dressed scantily than if she was dressed 'respectably'.

Sample size? Were these men or actual perps?

Was an undergraduate 2 week project. 60 respondents consisting of 30 men, 30 women. 4 groups: Male, scantily dressed | male, respectably dressed | female, scantily dressed | female, respectably dressed.

All participants read a shot vignette which basically depicted a girl going out with friends and getting sexually assaulted by a guy she'd met at a club. The two obvious differentiators were in one she was respectably dressed (jeans, blouse, sensible shoes etc) and the other she was dressed scantily (mini skirt, boob tube, 3 inch heels etc).

After reading they were asked a 10 pointed questionnaire, two of the questions were the ones we were looking at, the other 8 were to detract any suspicion and thus reduce the chance of getting socially favourable answers.

See my original post for the basic gist of the results. They conformed to pre-existing literature among the academic community.

I should also mention, the male participants were not screened for previous convictions or anything and were completely unwitting to the study until we opportunistically approached them.

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

I personally get why women are upset. No one deserves to have a target painted on their heads because they happen to wear a certain thing.

However.

I'm a minority that happens to live near New York City. I remember when I was told what I could and couldn't wear in certain places for the very real reason of being jumped at best or being killed at worst. When I asked why, they asked me was it more important that I got to wear Red or Blue that day, or if I wanted to live?

The cop was wrong to say what he did. Plain and simple. However, it does not change the fact that some people will hone in to certain things. It's up to the individual with how much risk they are willing to incur on themselves vs their personal freedom.

A woman should be able to wear what she wants without having something horrible happen to them and being blamed for it. I and many people should be able to walk down Time Square and not look at every car and wonder if there's a bomb in there. People in the Middle East should be able to go to the damn Market and not be shot to pieces just because they wanted salad that night. We can not live in a world of 'shoulds' because that's not our world. We live in a very dangerous, sick place and we have to acknowledge it and act accordingly.

TLR version. Women, wear what you want, but don't be ignorant to the fact that most rapists are sick and will take almost ANYTHING as a provocation. Rational people do not rape, so thinking about it rationally will not save anyone.

 

[scw55]

Im a proud 'siut' too. Isn't that like animal fat? Ironic.

Does seem very short-sighted of them 'siuts'.

 

[NickCooley]

So do you keep a dust sheet over your car at all times in case some people think it looks nice? Do you bar all your doors and windows with the curtains shut just in case someone sees inside and takes a liking to it? Are you gonna cover any children/future children in a full length burka in case a wandering pedophile takes an interest in them?

no I don't, and I wouldn't, it makes sense, but probably wouldn't be worth the effort... same as they have yet to stop me going a few ks over the speed limit. in fact I put the GPS in the glove box so people can't see it.

anyway, my point is, I would not throw a fucking parade berating the cop for suggesting any of these things!

which people damn near do EVERY time someone suggests this... by all means, don't do what he says, you are more than free to do that... you don't need to start a debate every time someone suggests it...

the fact that you have a POLICE OFFICER stating agreement with the 'I couldn't help myself your honour, she was asking for it with the way she was dressed' point of view

really? where did it say that in the article? I thought the cop just suggested that women would reduce their risk of being raped if they didn't dress like a slut.

obviously, this, and what you are suggesting, are two very different things...

There's no evidence whatsoever that proves how you dress affects the likelihood of being raped. If it were true don't you think more than one hick cop would be announcing it? As I said earlier what gets labelled common sense usually isn't sense at all.

There's also the point that whether he intended to or not the implications of his statement are that women are in some way to blame if they get raped because of how they dress I'm assuming that's what thegrimfandago's response means. That's what the uproar is about, some dumbass cop touting his dumbass opinions as fact.

 

[DTWolfwood]

I am reminded of Dave Chappelle's skit on a whore's uniform.

i don't mine them dressing to they way they do so long as they don't object to me treating them like a whore.

Meaning you walk up to them and ask how much for the night?

well you cant be that direct as soliciting is quite illegal, but yes more or less. Dont be mad if you get treated that way is all im saying.

Maybe for you but prostitution's perfectly legal here. And they will get mad no one likes to be insulted because of their choice of clothing.

Well than this isn't an issue where you are at. If your country is liberated enough to legalize prostitution, i don't see there being this kind of protest there ^-^ Plus, women who dress provocatively and not wanting that kind of attention is a paradox. Again its "confusing" in Dave Chappelle's own word XD

Funny you say that considering its Australia. Anyway there?s a difference between guys hitting on a girl and rape. Only one of those scenarios is affected by the way you dress.

im going to say its the guys hitting on a girl scenerio that is affected by the way these women dress, because a rapist is gonna rape, regardless, the law certainly isn't stopping them nor a few articles of clothing (or in this case lack thereof ). Its a simple problem of risk management. I don't wear a bicycle helmet when i'm biking because that is a risk i'm willing to take, and if a passerby looks at me funny for not wearing one to be safe, i respect that, i certainly wouldn't get mad about it.

If they want to provoke a reaction through the way they dress fine i am totally ok with that, just don't ***** about it when it gets you the wrong kind of attention.

Again dave chappelle made a good point with the Whore's uniform skit.

 

[Jimbo1212]

With all crimes, the events leading up to it can vary massively and thus shows how responsible the victim was, be it very or not at all.

And in rape, the blame is on the perp, not the victim. Always. Talking about crimes in general is a Composition Fallacy. If all crimes were equal, jaywalkers could get the death sentence.

And this is what I do not understand.
If someone walks into a lions den covered in meat and they get killed, then yes it is the lions fault, but how stupid was the person to do that in the first place? Some rape cases are the same as this and the victim took such stupid risks that I have little sympathy for them. However, I think the result of them being raped, although always terrible, will guarantee they will not make such a stupid mistake again. And this leads me back to my original point, that it is alarming that some people can be so void of common sense that they need something as horrible as rape to happen to teach them to be careful.

so if a drunk girl flirting with a guy can get raped, and a sober girl doing nothing at all can get raped, what makes one victim more or less responsible than the other?

Very true, but what good is it just to say that? These men still exist. They are still out there and still a danger, hence why the cop warned women as there is little he can do until it is too late. but of course these women did to stop to think about that before jumping into the feminist bandwagon.

he didn't say "don't get drunk and go home with drunk men", he said "don't dress like a slut". there's no good to saying that either, since how you dress has little to do with how likely you are to be raped.

Look at above example.
One person puts themselves in the position of danger through lack of thinking, and the other is just in the wrong place at the wrong time and only luck comes down to avoiding such a horrific crime.
From experience and examples I have read about, sluts are most likely the ones to take the risk of going home with a stranger after flirting with them all night. If the police can make women not dress as sluts, then this might have a domino effect and prevent other problems.

 

[agrajagthetesty]

From experience and examples I have read about, sluts are most likely the ones to take the risk of going home with a stranger after flirting with them all night. If the police can make women not dress as sluts, then this might have a domino effect and prevent other problems.

If the policeman wanted to advise women not to go home with strangers, he should have said that.

 

[Imp_Emissary]

AgentNein makes a good point. Just to add my two pennies, there was a rapist who targeted older women (60+) who didn't necessarily dress in a scantily clad way.

That is the thing people often don't get about rape. Its not about the sex, its about the rape itself. A person who wants to rape doesn't do it for the sex, but the act of forcing themselfs on another person. Yes they will probably go after someone they find "attractive", but they don't need to. Some even pick victims that most people would think are "safe" from being raped. Like the elderly.

 

[JonnWood]

And this is what I do not understand.

Clearly.

If someone walks into a lions den covered in meat and they get killed, then yes it is the lions fault, but how stupid was the person to do that in the first place?

Pretty dumb, since lions like meat, and will attempt to eat it whenever it's convenient. Rapists, in the overwhelming majority of cases, don't care what their target is wearing. Analogy fail.

Some rape cases are the same as this

Not enough to base a policy on. It's like the amount of people who get hit by cars despite walking on the sidewalks, not jaywalking, and waiting for all the crossing lights. It happens, but would you stay off the sidewalk because of it?

and the victim took such stupid risks that I have little sympathy for them. However, I think the result of them being raped, although always terrible, will guarantee they will not make such a stupid mistake again. And this leads me back to my original point, that it is alarming that some people can be so void of common sense that they need something as horrible as rape to happen to teach them to be careful.

Except that as you refuse to acknowledge, dressing "carefully" doesn't mean anything to a rapist. Most of them (89%) don't even remember what the victim was wearing, and say the victim didn't entice them in any way. If a woman wanted to be "careful", she would have to spend most of her time with complete strangers, since she's more likely to be raped by someone she knows. In fact, it's a lot more likely than being raped because she dressed sexily.

 

[DTWolfwood]

fine by me, remember "to each his own." Sorry if i like to follow societal norms instead of rebelling against it.

There is a distinct irony in you using posting that bearing the name and likeness of a gunslinging priest.

lol ah you caught me good sir! I follow societal norms in the outward appearance only

Lets just say i don't go getting the wrong kind of attention

I am reminded of Dave Chappelle's skit on a whore's uniform.

i don't mine them dressing to they way they do so long as they don't object to me treating them like a whore.

Meaning you walk up to them and ask how much for the night?

well you cant be that direct as soliciting is quite illegal, but yes more or less. Dont be mad if you get treated that way is all im saying.

Then you can't object to me treating you as I see fit based on what I think of you, no matter how insulting it might be.

if how im dress lets you think that, of course not. I was asking for it

Oh, that's not only what I'm going to judge you on.
Maybe I just don't like the way you walk. Or the sound of your voice. Maybe you have a lisp.
I love judging people for arbitrary reasons and taking a high road for it.

fine by me, remember "to each his own." Sorry if i like to follow societal norms instead of rebelling against it.

I know man! Aren't societal norms just the greatest?

Girl on the left is such a slut, right?

and exactly what is wrong with what the woman on the right is wearing compared to what the women on the left is wearing? Or the simple fact that they following their social norms has any bearing on how you live your life or your particular sensibilities?

you must live in a pretty idealized world if you think strangers don't pass judgement on you based solely on your outward appearance. Do you know what a first impression is?

You can dress as a skank if you want, and i'm all for it. But to believe any stranger will treat you as a classy lady doing so is pure naivete. I do believe in never judge a book by its cover, but if the cover is a naked woman, i'm going to expect it to have some naked women inside the book too.

watch the dave chappelle skit will ya?

 

[JonnWood]

You completely missed the point. The parade was to support rape victims and tear down the whole "she dressed like a slut, she was asking for it" stance.

"Just because I look hungry doesn't mean I want random people showing sausages down my throat".

but if dressing like a slut increases your chances of getting raped and you don't want to get raped, then it's pretty obvious to not dress like a slut right?

and if i were a homeless person and was very hungry, i wouldn't mind random people giving me food. the metaphor isn't really as applicable.

You've twisted the metaphor. Being very hungry and looking hungry are completely different things. Just like dressing like a slut doesn't mean you want to get raped.

yes, i agree about the dressing part, in a perfect world everyone should be able to wear whatever they want. but if it actively increases your chances of getting raped by doing so, then it's a pretty small and easy step to wear something else instead. keep the sexy stuff at home for your partner.

How dare you. Rape is not about sex. Rape is about assault. How the woman dresses or does not dress has nothing to do with it. Fucking is not the fucking point. Don't you dare blame the victim of a crime for the actions of the criminal.

EDIT: suggesting that the manner of dress or the actions of the victim of a rape is the cause of the rape - even if only partially - is also to suggest that the rapist would be a fine, upstanding individual were it not for the woman's state of dress. It is to suggest that your house would not have been burglarized if not for your desire to have nice things. It is to suggest that the victim of murder would not have been murdered were it not for his desire to be alive.

ah internet, when will you ever learn to read?

if dressing like a slut increases your chances of getting raped

As people have told you, it doesn't. When will you learn to read?