So about that Total Biscuit article....

[CritialGaming]

Sorry to bring actual Game Industry Discussion to this forum, but this has really really bothered me over the past couple of days.

A few days ago Laura Kate Dale posted an interview with Total Biscuit about dealing with online hate. That article could be found here: http://www.kotaku.co.uk/2017/08/16/totalbiscuit-on-dealing-with-the-hate

Now the article itself is rather mundane and straight forward, in it, TB talks about the sets he has gone through in order to deal with assholes on the internet and the tools he was forced to use in order to keep those things moderated. Ironically in a story that is trying to bring to light internet harassment, Laura was immediately bombarded with harassment that led to Kotaku.co.uk issuing an apology statement.

Laura on twitter talks about becoming suicidal over this whole thing, and claims that TB has broken off any and all contact and relationship to her to separate himself from this disaster piece.

It has become a shitstorm.

While I don't condone harassment of any kind. I can't help but wonder why people keep writing pieces like this. I get the intention of trying to bring to light online harassment, and thusly combat such harassment is noble and valid. But if writing such a piece some part of you has to be prepared for the article to create a target and as such shouldn't you prepare yourself for some backlash?

Laura's twitter becomes a very sad place whenever she writes about anything related to Trans-people, or trans gaming experiences, or any other such topics. She's gotten this shit before. How could she put out an article like this and not at least be prepared for a degree of shit?

I'm not saying that it is right that fuckwits on the internet feel a sense of power when they harass people for any reason. But it just seems to be extremely naive that Laura thought she could put this article up, and only see rainbows and sunshine.

You guys have seem my opinions on things here. I'm pretty anti-SJW for the most part, and honestly this is part of the reason why I think it is so ridiculous. When you post a hotbed issue to call attention to it, then cry foul when it blows up in your face, especially when past experiences should have warned you it would happen, I am sorry when I don't really feel bad for you when it happens and you cry on twitter about it.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results.

Laura is a fantastic games journalist. She gets scopes and leaks on things way before most other news outlets a good chunk of the time. Her game reviews are good, her opinion pieces on general gaming are great. But when she goes off on these SJW-articles or starts talking about "Well as a trans person this, and trans person that." it never works out well. Then when people hate on that content, she just becomes a ball of depression and sadness like she can't understand why people don't want to listen or read about that shit.

You are a games journalist Laura. You're trans and that's great, but people come to you for gaming information and general opinions. When you pigeon hole "trans" into things, you alienate a majority of you audience and then wonder why people don't dig on it. Laura is too smart for her to not understand how this works. And I feel like she either needs to develop a thicker skin about it all, or simply keep he gender politics out of it completely. I don't care how VR makes you feel as a trans person, because I don't see how gender identity has anything to do with it.

For another example, she posted another article about how some gender-bent fan art for the Dream Daddy dating simulator game bothered her and I really wanted to laugh in her face. She's trans, and she had a problem with gender bent fan art? Really? She's a gender bent person! How hypocritical is that? I get that her reasoning was that there was a trans man in the game as one of the dads already and she didn't feel it was appropriate to gender bent that person, but in the interest of equality I could help but shake my head at that thought process. For her to take a stance on something so mundane as fan art it just blew my mind as to how oblivious she could be.

Look here's my final thought on Laura's whole situation. If you want to write articles and opinion pieces about hot button topics, that's fine. I welcome you to do that. But if you post an article that you know will cause angry reactions, you can't go crying about those reactions. Number one, they are just words on the internet and people are assholes when hidden behind a keyboard. Number two, not everyone will agree or appreciate your politics or social views and feelings and as a result you need to be prepared to withstand such contrary viewpoints even if they boil down to just insults.

If your frame of mind is so brittle, that such comments can lead you to suicidal thoughts, then you need to stop this. Let someone else write those articles and stick to the stuff you do best. For the sake of your own mental health.

 

[CaitSeith]

Victim blaming is not cool, bro. She had an argument with people on twitter because the article didn't mention TB's involvement on GamerGate nor called out his behavior in the past. Twitter got apeshit and she ended up doxxed.

 

[RaikuFA]

From what I've gathered, she has been trying to bring to light the fact that Twitch is extremely lax when it comes to harassment. She then interviewed TB since he's been dealing with harassment for years. Unfortunately it was on the anniversary of Gamergate and everyone's favorite feminist decided that was enough to go open season on Laura. Laura then started to get harassed and dooxed by Anitas followers.

Anita deserves all the shame she gets from this (not harassment, shame). And the Kotaku editor is a coward for throwing Laura under the bus.

 

[Zykon TheLich_v1legacy]

So...other than dicks being dicks, I'm not seeing what part of this is particularly uh...anything really, as you said, pretty mundane and straightforward. Can't see why anyone would spit the dummy over it.

 

[Neurotic Void Melody]

These type of harassers want to scare and hurt people into silence. It makes them feel some sort of power over others when in reality they are cowards. Nobody should give them the satisfaction of giving in. Ever.

 

[CritialGaming]

Victim blaming is not cool, bro. She had an argument with people on twitter because the article didn't mention TB's involvement on GamerGate nor called out his behavior in the past. Twitter got apeshit and she ended up doxxed.

I'm not victim blaming. Look you can't call everything victim blaming. But you should at least accept that people have a degree of responsibility for their actions. And doing something that is know to get you harassment, means you should either be prepared for such harassment or just do bait that harassment in the first place.

Look if I go to a known bad part of the city and walk up and down through alleys, then I shouldn't be surprised when I get mugged because obviously I was making deliberate choices to get mugged. Now obviously it isn't okay for a criminal to mug anybody, but I also shouldn't put myself in situations to get mugged.

You gonna have a reasonable line between calling something "victim blaming" and just having some self responibility. Because it's all too easy to play victim for literally anything these days and too many people just accept that.

 

[CaitSeith]

Victim blaming is not cool, bro. She had an argument with people on twitter because the article didn't mention TB's involvement on GamerGate nor called out his behavior in the past. Twitter got apeshit and she ended up doxxed.

I'm not victim blaming. Look you can't call everything victim blaming. But you should at least accept that people have a degree of responsibility for their actions. And doing something that is know to get you harassment, means you should either be prepared for such harassment or just do bait that harassment in the first place.

Look if I go to a known bad part of the city and walk up and down through alleys, then I shouldn't be surprised when I get mugged because obviously I was making deliberate choices to get mugged. Now obviously it isn't okay for a criminal to mug anybody, but I also shouldn't put myself in situations to get mugged.

You gonna have a reasonable line between calling something "victim blaming" and just having some self responibility. Because it's all too easy to play victim for literally anything these days and too many people just accept that.

You're assuming too much. You are assuming you know why the article caused the issue or who was harassing her. Out of ignorance, you're victim blaming.

 

[Fappy]

Victim blaming is not cool, bro. She had an argument with people on twitter because the article didn't mention TB's involvement on GamerGate nor called out his behavior in the past. Twitter got apeshit and she ended up doxxed.

I'm not victim blaming. Look you can't call everything victim blaming. But you should at least accept that people have a degree of responsibility for their actions. And doing something that is know to get you harassment, means you should either be prepared for such harassment or just do bait that harassment in the first place.

Look if I go to a known bad part of the city and walk up and down through alleys, then I shouldn't be surprised when I get mugged because obviously I was making deliberate choices to get mugged. Now obviously it isn't okay for a criminal to mug anybody, but I also shouldn't put myself in situations to get mugged.

You gonna have a reasonable line between calling something "victim blaming" and just having some self responibility. Because it's all too easy to play victim for literally anything these days and too many people just accept that.

I mean, is a police officer ever "prepared" to take a bullet? Even if you're aware of the risks it doesn't mean you're going to be equipped to deal with the potential consequences. You can call those people dumb, but others may think them brave. She is doing something she believes in. To her, she did her job the best way she knew how.

She shouldn't have to face this kind of harassment, and the fact that she does likely proves her point.

In any case, I kind of doubt she was expecting this kind of backlash. As you said, the article wasn't particularly exciting. If you could blame her for anything it was underestimating how many psychopaths are on twitter.

 

[CritialGaming]

I mean, is a police officer ever "prepared" to take a bullet? Even if you're aware of the risks it doesn't mean you're going to be equipped to deal with the potential consequences. You can call those people dumb, but others may think them brave. She is doing something she believes in. To her, she did her job the best way she knew how.

She shouldn't have to face this kind of harassment, and the fact that she does likely proves her point.

In any case, I kind of doubt she was expecting this kind of backlash. As you said, the article wasn't particularly exciting. If you could blame her for anything it was underestimating how many psychopaths are on twitter.

Obviously no one should have to deal with any harassment. But coulda, woulda, shoulda, isn't the world we live in. Especially now.

No a police officer isn't prepared to take a bullet, but they do know that taking a bullet is a possibility everyday. They understand the risks in what they are doing and it takes a certain character to be able to deal with that kind of stress. And not all police can do it, as a result they leave the job. It's the same principal here. I'm not saying Laura should stop what she is doing if that is what she wants to do. But she needs to have a prepared understanding of what possible outcomes of things like this are and be able to accept dealing with those. This isn't the first time she has been harassed for stuff like this. Learn for experience and prepare yourself for it. Don't repeat your actions and hope this time will be different.

I mean frankly there is a clear emotional problem with anyone who gets that worked up over internet comments. That's an issue you should get help for. Hell, TB himself goes to a shrink in order to help himself cope with this kind of thing, additionally he mentions in the article the steps he takes to reduce the bullshit sent his way for his opinions.

Laura should think about taking those kinds of steps. Of course it also doesn't help that her boss is a shithead and is willing to toss her aside the moment shit gets even remotely dicey. Clearly Kotaku isn't willing to back Laura up, which is probably something they should have discussed with her before she took the job to begin with. Their willingness to bend over backwards to sweep this away, should be a warning that they will not support Laura in these situations and we will see if that changes the way she writes content for them, or even if she stays working with them for long.

Additionally it does go to show you how much of a piece of shit Anita Sark is when she attacks someone in the very same way she used to complain about being attacked all the time. It's attention whoring at its finest.

 

[Erttheking]

I'm not victim blaming. Look you can't call everything victim blaming. But

Everything before the word "but" is bullshit. You ever hear that?

 

[CritialGaming]

I'm not victim blaming. Look you can't call everything victim blaming. But

Everything before the word "but" is bullshit. You ever hear that?

So you're saying you can call everything victim blaming? Football player breaks his leg, but it's victim blaming for calling it a risk of playing that game? A person rear ends someone because the person in front slammed on their breaks for no reason, it's victim blaming to say they were obviously driving too fast and following too close?

You've a mighty tall horse there.

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

Why would anyone have a problem with this article? What the fuck is wrong with people?

 

[Erttheking]

I'm not victim blaming. Look you can't call everything victim blaming. But

Everything before the word "but" is bullshit. You ever hear that?

So you're saying you can call everything victim blaming? Football player breaks his leg, but it's victim blaming for calling it a risk of playing that game? A person rear ends someone because the person in front slammed on their breaks for no reason, it's victim blaming to say they were obviously driving too fast and following too close?

You've a mighty tall horse there.

No, I'm saying that when you say "I'm not victim blaming BUT" that sounds like a weak attempt to convince others that what you're saying isn't victim blaming. If you ever have to follow up something with a "but" I question how deeply you actually mean that statement. There's a reason "I'm not racist, BUT" is commonly used as an insult towards racist people.

Way to miss the fucking point. Also, while I'm at it, someone alienates the majority of their audience for bringing up trans stuff? Way to have a low opinion of the gaming community and their ability to empathize with trans people.

 

[CritialGaming]

I'm not victim blaming. Look you can't call everything victim blaming. But

Everything before the word "but" is bullshit. You ever hear that?

So you're saying you can call everything victim blaming? Football player breaks his leg, but it's victim blaming for calling it a risk of playing that game? A person rear ends someone because the person in front slammed on their breaks for no reason, it's victim blaming to say they were obviously driving too fast and following too close?

You've a mighty tall horse there.

No, I'm saying that when you say "I'm not victim blaming BUT" that sounds like a weak attempt to convince others that what you're saying isn't victim blaming. If you ever have to follow up something with a "but" I question how deeply you actually mean that statement. There's a reason "I'm not racist, BUT" is commonly used as an insult towards racist people.

Way to miss the fucking point. Also, while I'm at it, someone alienates the majority of their audience for bringing up trans stuff? Way to have a low opinion of the gaming community and their ability to empathize with trans people.

Judging by how quick the gaming "community" is to attack people who dare to have an opinion in the first place....

 

[Fappy]

-Snip-

I don't know a whole lot about Laura outside of some Jim Sterling stuff, but I am willing to bet she doesn't have access to the kind of support that TB does. TB is a long established Youtuber/streamer with a steady cash-flow and Laura is pretty much your typical game journalist. Therapy can get really expensive (assuming she doesn't already get it).

That said, I have an issue with this sentiment.

I mean frankly there is a clear emotional problem with anyone who gets that worked up over internet comments.

I think this is one of those "walk a mile in someone else's shoes" scenarios. In general, I don't think most people's skin is as thick as you assume, and internet harassment has been shown to cause a similar level of distress as real life harassment for many people out there (especially modern teens). Considering Laura's already predisposed to it by virtue of being trans, and you've got colossal potential to receive online harassment for virtually anything (much less simply existing).

I consider myself to have thick skin when it comes to online comments, and I reckon you do as well, but neither of us have or ever will receive that volume of online harassment. We don't really have room to comment because we really don't know what it's like for her.

Yes, just like a wounded officer she could quit and no one would blame her, but if she hasn't stopped now it probably means some part of her feels its worth it. She's fighting a battle she believes in.

 

[Erttheking]

Snip

Yes yes yes, stereotypes of all that, something I really wish people would stop doing to gamers.

And none of this changes that the "but" argument is basically "Allow me to contradict what I just said."

 

[CritialGaming]

Yes, just like a wounded officer she could quit and no one would blame her, but if she hasn't stopped now it probably means some part of her feels its worth it. She's fighting a battle she believes in.

No battle is worth driving yourself to the edge of suicide. Especially considering it's basis is in fucking video games. That is NEVER going to be worth that kind of price.

And I'm not saying she should quit journalism. Because she does get lots of love for her leaks, and her game reporting. It's her trans-opinion pieces, and SJW'y stuff that gets the hate and that is absolutely something she could quit if the comments really bothered her to that level of depression. Especially if she doesn't have the means to get the emotion help she needs to cope with it. Just like every cop wears a bulletproof vest for protection, should she continue to want to do these kinds of articles she needs to get herself an equivalent type of protection for her own emotional safety.

 

[DaCosta]

She wrote an article about the real problem that is harassment, shitheads then harassed her to get her to stop talking about the problem.

Ignoring the problem doesn't make it go away, and nobody should refrain from addressing an issue out of fear. In this particular case all that does is tell them that their tactics of harassment work, and make the problem even worse.

And yes, you are victim blaming.

 

[CritialGaming]

Snip

Yes yes yes, stereotypes of all that, something I really wish people would stop doing to gamers.

And none of this changes that the "but" argument is basically "Allow me to contradict what I just said."

The "but" in the passage is not even contradictory to the first sentences. You are simply picking at words. If you have nothing to contribute to the discussion, then why even bother posting?

If you wanna debate points, I welcome you. If you wanna nitpick and insert meanings into what I'm saying without context, then we are done here.

 

[Erttheking]

Snip

Yes yes yes, stereotypes of all that, something I really wish people would stop doing to gamers.

And none of this changes that the "but" argument is basically "Allow me to contradict what I just said."

The "but" in the passage is not even contradictory to the first sentences. You are simply picking at words. If you have nothing to contribute to the discussion, then why even bother posting?

If you wanna debate points, I welcome you. If you wanna nitpick and insert meanings into what I'm saying without context, then we are done here.

Not really, it shows you're holding mindsets are unpopular and you know people aren't going to like them, which is why you try to often the blow with a " XXXXX BUT!" before each one. You do it all over the place in this thread. In fact, let's count the number of times you do it in your original post.

I get the intention of trying to bring to light online harassment, and thusly combat such harassment is noble and valid. But if writing such a piece some part of you has to be prepared for the article to create a target and as such shouldn't you prepare yourself for some backlash?

I'm not saying that it is right that fuckwits on the internet feel a sense of power when they harass people for any reason. But it just seems to be extremely naive that Laura thought she could put this article up, and only see rainbows and sunshine.

Laura is a fantastic games journalist. She gets scopes and leaks on things way before most other news outlets a good chunk of the time. Her game reviews are good, her opinion pieces on general gaming are great. But when she goes off on these SJW-articles or starts talking about "Well as a trans person this, and trans person that." it never works out well. Then when people hate on that content, she just becomes a ball of depression and sadness like she can't understand why people don't want to listen or read about that shit.

You are a games journalist Laura. You're trans and that's great, but people come to you for gaming information and general opinions. When you pigeon hole "trans" into things, you alienate a majority of you audience and then wonder why people don't dig on it. Laura is too smart for her to not understand how this works. And I feel like she either needs to develop a thicker skin about it all, or simply keep he gender politics out of it completely. I don't care how VR makes you feel as a trans person, because I don't see how gender identity has anything to do with it.

For another example, she posted another article about how some gender-bent fan art for the Dream Daddy dating simulator game bothered her and I really wanted to laugh in her face. She's trans, and she had a problem with gender bent fan art? Really? She's a gender bent person! How hypocritical is that? I get that her reasoning was that there was a trans man in the game as one of the dads already and she didn't feel it was appropriate to gender bent that person, but in the interest of equality I could help but shake my head at that thought process. For her to take a stance on something so mundane as fan art it just blew my mind as to how oblivious she could be.

Look here's my final thought on Laura's whole situation. If you want to write articles and opinion pieces about hot button topics, that's fine. I welcome you to do that. But if you post an article that you know will cause angry reactions, you can't go crying about those reactions. Number one, they are just words on the internet and people are assholes when hidden behind a keyboard. Number two, not everyone will agree or appreciate your politics or social views and feelings and as a result you need to be prepared to withstand such contrary viewpoints even if they boil down to just insults.

Six times. You pulled it SIX TIMES in the same post. When you get down to it, everyone before "but" in every last one of those sentences was just pointless natter designed to make what you were about to say next seem utterly pointless. Why even bother typing all that stuff out if it has nothing to do with what you're trying to argue?

Oh, and while I'm at it, a couple of other things you said that piss me off.

Acting like talking about being trans and expecting backlash as if that's just something trans people need to learn to deal with or just shut up about it. Because they just need to accept they have a shit lot in life, according to you, and that they either need to "Get a thicker skin" (ironically that's always said by people whose skin I find to be rather on the thin side, I can't even criticize tits in gaming without you taking offense to it, so you saying someone else needs to get a thicker skin is, to be blunt, pretty fucking rich) or just shut up.

Acting like a trans woman not liking a gender bent art is hypocritical. Buddy. I wrote a story where I gender bent all of my main characters for a gag. That' what it was. A gag. I did not turn them transexual. A gender bent artwork and transexuality are not in the same fucking star system. One is a deeply personally issue that involves a lot of stress, transitioning and persecution, and the other is "hey, what if this character had tits/a dick?" They are NOT comparable!

Insulting the stability of her mind. As someone who deals with sporadic episodes of depression, calling someone mentally fragile is one of the most fucking insulting things you can do to anyone who struggles with any kind of emotional or mental issue, so cut the shit with that.

All in all, you're showing a severe lack of empathy here. Oh wait, don't tell me. You're going to pull this. "I have a great deal of empathy for her situation. BUT!"