So about that Total Biscuit article....

[CaitSeith]

Not even 1,000 troll messages are as crushing as a close friend unexpectedly telling you that they stop trusting you. The issue got solved, words retracted and forgiven. But the Internet was already at full shitshow by then. The problem wasn't the harassment (she gets that even when she reports on non-controversial issues like the PS Slim), it was hurtful negative feedback coming from where she didn't expect.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

...I honestly have no idea what this thread is about. Laura wrote an article about TB...and? And what? Who cares?! What's the controversy? Who is angry and why?!
I'm seeing a bunch of noise about gamergate and victim blaming, but no one has expressed coherently who is angry and why

Edit: Never mind. Just googled it. It was Anita, because of course it was Anita.

 

[CaitSeith]

Why would anyone have a problem with this article? What the fuck is wrong with people?

It was an interview with someone polemic, known for defending GamersGate, never mentioned GamersGate... and it was published on GamersGate Day (yesterday). She didn't knew the last part (neither I did); but you know that doesn't matter in this mess. GG brings out the worst out from the people (even from those you least expect).

 

[CritialGaming]

snip

You're right I do use "but" a lot. Trying to reign in my thoughts, and try to make sure I can deliver my thoughts without being directly offending is hard and I use but a lot to try and weave these thoughts together. It's bad writing and bad grammar. Good thing I don't do those things professionally I guess.

BUT, Frankly Er, you find everything insulting bro. Someone thinks your opinion is silly, you find it insulting. Someone has a counter thought to what you feel is right and you're insulted. What am I supposed to do? Tip-toe around your feelings?

You are so bend on getting pissed about my thoughts, that I don't believe you truly understand what I'm saying. You love to gloss over things and take extra meaning out of things that aren't there.

I will tell you that you are right. I don't have empathy for this. I just don't, I am a horrible shitperson, because I grew up getting beaten up by bullys, insulted and harassed every single day. Every school day I would come home a broken person, and my only solace was video games. Through gaming I learned to deal with my school life, I learned to develop an armor around myself through humor, and through the knowledge that ultimately these people who never have a true effect on my life.

I grew the fuck up basically. By the end of high school, even though they tried to taunt, tease, and abuse, it all rolled off of my because you just learn. You don't expect change, you adapt to survive in your environment. Because if you don't adapt, you die....metaphorically in this case I hope.

We don't live in a paradise world where everybody just loves each other and hugs all day long and nothing is ever bad. People are shitheads, and that isn't going to change. In thousands of years of human history, through all the war, and in-fighting, have we ever changed? I don't think so, though the pipedream of the intelligent is to think that we have which shows that even the smartest of us are truly naive.

That's what I am trying to apply to Laura and her articles. Adapt and survive, or move on. Because you can preach and plea all you want. You can bring to light the horrors of harassment till your lungs collapse, BUT it isn't going anywhere. It fall upon YOUR shoulders to learn to deal with it. So yes, I say get a thicker fucking skin, or just don't poke the bear. That's fine too, not everyone is capable of standing on the front lines of a battlefield to take those bullets. Luckily, this particular battlefield is voluntary.

You and I are a perfect example Er. I can't recall more than one or two opinions that I have ever agreed with. I think your moral compass is pointed in such a different direction than mine that we can never agree on anything. BUT don't take my disagreement as an insult, because it isn't. BUT what can I say? I'm just a faceless anonymous asshole behind a keyboard.

 

[Erttheking]

Snip

If you cared about not offending people, you never would've written that OP in the first place. The sheer amount of shit in it is utterly baffling, and the fact that you've been getting pretty so much negative responses to it should be a pretty good indicator that this wasn't a good idea. And again, the whole "but" thing, really does come off as you trying to deflect or distract from your more negative viewpoints.

Oh please. I don't get angry about people disagreeing with me, I get angry about them questioning my sexuality and declaring who I am and am not, which is not the same thing and I'll thank you to not act otherwise.

No, not really. I don't go looking for you, it's just that every single time you end up posting, it's something like this. No, not really, I like to cut to the core of things and pull out bullshit lots of people, yourself included, like to ignore.

Good for you, I like to have empathy for my fellow man. But hey, if you want to act like she's somehow done something to not deserve empathy so that you have an excuse to not care, go ahead. Just don't expect everyone to mindlessly accept it, because that sure as hell ain't gonna happen.

Yeah, funny story. I had a bully problem at school too. Yet I managed to maintain my empathy for others. So pardon me if I don't consider this to be a valid excuse. "Don't expect change?" I hate to say this Critical, but you didn't grow up. You gave up. And that's not a choice a lot of people make, so you really shouldn't act surprised when people don't give up. Personally? I'll give up when I'm dead.

"We don't live in a paradise world," oh gee, I had no idea. Have we changed? Let me think. Do we kill people for food anymore? Is it considered morally acceptable to rape those we have defeated in battle? Is looting considered the main form of payment for soldiers? Do we have organized state killings of people for being of a different faith? Do we have ethnic purges? Yes, yes we have changed. You seem to be mixing up not being naive with being a defeatist.

There's the old but again. I knew it was coming. Once again, it's kind of amusing that you claim someone needs to grow a thicker skin, when you yourself don't have a very thick one. Also, assuming she has issues with depression, telling someone with that condition to grow a thicker skin is easily the most tone deaf thing you can say to them. And "don't poke the bear" basically has all the negative connotations of "get back in the closet." That you should deny who you are to avoid abuse. An unhealthy approach, to say the least.

Hey, Critical? Just because you didn't mean for it to be insulting, doesn't mean that it's not insulting. You disagreeing with me isn't the insulting part. It's you doing things like suggesting a person should just shut up to avoid abuse, or implying that rule 63 is anyway comparable to being transgender. All while victim blaming (and yes, you ARE victim blaming) Stuff like that? Pretty damn insulting to me on an intellectual and moral level.

 

[CritialGaming]

Guess I'm just trying to argue with reason over emotion. I thought that there could be a real discussion on topics like these, alas I should have known better.

A guy runs into a burning building to save a television, and people who be like, "Oh that poor man suffered so many burns" and nobody would question why the fuck he ran into a burning building in the first place.

I get it Er you disagree and are insulted....again. I don't know what to tell you. I can't be responsible for your morality. It's clear you don't like mine, and I don't like yours. Luckily we don't have to ever agree.

What you could do is actually provide opinions on the topic rather than just attack mine.

 

[Erttheking]

Guess I'm just trying to argue with reason over emotion. I thought that there could be a real discussion on topics like these, alas I should have known better.

A guy runs into a burning building to save a television, and people who be like, "Oh that poor man suffered so many burns" and nobody would question why the fuck he ran into a burning building in the first place.

I get it Er you disagree and are insulted....again. I don't know what to tell you. I can't be responsible for your morality. It's clear you don't like mine, and I don't like yours. Luckily we don't have to ever agree.

What you could do is actually provide opinions on the topic rather than just attack mine.

Dude, there's not a whole lot of reason in your arguments. And despite my arguments being spirited, I still included plenty of reasoning.

Dude, you seriously that's comparable? Because it really fucking isn't.

Are you going to go into detail about how my arguments are emotional or just stick to ad hominem attacks?

...I think I've made my opinions really effing clear.

 

[CritialGaming]

The sad reality is there will always be some form of harrassment as long as we are hormonally-based mammals with various differences in mere opinion let alone physiological make-ups.

To get rid of it all would mean funneling the population base into one big homogenous mass, which is probably impossible unless we are all produced in labs someday.

As human beings, we are not quite as high and mighty as we'd like to think. Reality is the cold choker chain that yanks us back whenever our idealisms outpace it. Utopias only exist in the movies, and even then they don't seem to last, because see above.

 

[Saelune]

Ok wait...TB...abandoned her in her time of need? Is that true? I want confirmation either way before I start spouting my opinion...

 

[CritialGaming]

Ok wait...TB...abandoned her in her time of need? Is that true? I want confirmation either way before I start spouting my opinion...

He didn't quite do it that way. Hard to say for sure, but according to the tweet he said "Those concerned about Laura i suggested we go separate ways because the circles she moves in, will hate her for even knowing me..". I think he distanced himself because he know that her fans hate him and his fans hate her so it would be safer to separate. https://twitter.com/Totalbiscuit/status/898208422327443456

Who know's for sure though.

 

[Erttheking]

Reading about her I can't really feel that much bad for her. Call it victim blaming but I'd compare it to a person who assisted in the glorious Communist revolution in Russia and is then dumbfounded when they take her to the goolags gulags for publicly voicing an opinion different than the ruling party.

http://reactionface.net/images/original/1126.jpg?new=1

One day, I hope the internet learns a little thing called "perspective," and how to keep things in it...communist revolutions and gulags...I mean really...

 

[Saelune]

Ok wait...TB...abandoned her in her time of need? Is that true? I want confirmation either way before I start spouting my opinion...

He didn't quite do it that way. Hard to say for sure, but according to the tweet he said "Those concerned about Laura i suggested we go separate ways because the circles she moves in, will hate her for even knowing me..". I think he distanced himself because he know that her fans hate him and his fans hate her so it would be safer to separate. https://twitter.com/Totalbiscuit/status/898208422327443456

Who know's for sure though.

Well, I hope thats the case then.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

I wonder if TB not-abandoning her would be chalked up to him being pro-GG and also given a negative tint by those inclined to do such a thing due to the harassment stemming from the feminist side of things.


I don't think TB could have done anything that would not be construed in a negative light by at least one of the two sides here.

 

[shrekfan246]

Articles like these keep being made because people on the internet keep excusing harassment.

Kinda simple, really.

I'm always gobsmacked whenever cis people start acting like they totally know what it's like to be a trans person, even better than actual trans people do. I'm not trans. The only way that I can speak for trans people is through people that I know and the experiences they've had. I'm not in a position to make any assumptions about what they go through, how they can deal with it, or suggest that maybe they just try to avoid it. Especially because that last one isn't going to happen.

Curiously, I don't remember anyone ever claiming articles about things like changes to the sniper rifles in Call of Duty should've just never been written because of the harassment the writers received.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Articles like these keep being made because people on the internet keep excusing harassment.

Kinda simple, really.

I'm always gobsmacked whenever cis people start acting like they totally know what it's like to be a trans person, even better than actual trans people do. I'm not trans. The only way that I can speak for trans people is through people that I know and the experiences they've had. I'm not in a position to make any assumptions about what they go through, how they can deal with it, or suggest that maybe they just try to avoid it. Especially because that last one isn't going to happen.

Curiously, I don't remember anyone ever claiming articles about things like changes to the sniper rifles in Call of Duty should've just never been written because of the harassment the writers received.

Well, it could be true for all you know. The trans person also doesn't know what the cis person imagines in their head. It's certainly not impossible for an intuitive and empathetic enough of a person to grasp the gist of something. This whole, I am not X so I can't POSSIBLY understand sells human intuition short I believe. No, most people are smart enough to grasp the fundamentals of most common situations.

Hell, I used to be trans-species when I was a young child (specifically, I identified as a T-rex) so I can even empathize with the otherkin. Now, I dunno how people maintain feeling that they're wolves and dragons and stuff into adulthood, but I had a lot of fun playing as a t-rex and roaring at stray dogs etc.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

I gotta say, "I'm not victim blaming but she should have expected it" in context to an article about harassment seems hilariously on point.

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

Well, it could be true for all you know. The trans person also doesn't know what the cis person imagines in their head. It's certainly not impossible for an intuitive and empathetic enough of a person to grasp the gist of something. This whole, I am not X so I can't POSSIBLY understand sells human intuition short I believe. No, most people are smart enough to grasp the fundamentals of most common situations.

And yet so many people want to abuse trans people for talking about what it's like to be trans? I don't know much about Dale, or her work, but what little I'm familiar with it seems she's written about her relationship to gaming numerous times in the past. Not just gaming. Which is fair. Because apparently people think it's okay to harass people for what is ostensibly a critique on gaming culture and justifying why it needs to be said in the first place.

Seems pretty narcissistic to assume someone should only write about gaming news or expect to be harassed by faceless anon cowards... that's pretty fucking repugnant, and perhaps she doesn't want to? If she's giving you stuff days in advance of other outlets, obviously she's doing a good job people might thank her for her time and efforts, and not act like selfish cunts expecting she only writes about that. Ignoring the fact that you can't always get that hot, exclusive scoop all the time, alone...

Christ, how self-centred do you have to be...? Are people just born this selfish or do they have to try? (This last point mostly about the OP, just to clarify.... two birds, etc...)

 

[StatusNil]

It was an interview with someone polemic, known for defending GamersGate, never mentioned GamersGate... and it was published on GamersGate Day (yesterday). She didn't knew the last part (neither I did); but you know that doesn't matter in this mess. GG brings out the worst out from the people (even from those you least expect).

"GamersGate" is an online gaming storefront based in Sweden, I believe. The former owner had to sell it because he was getting so much harassment from people who were "against harassment" and couldn't tell the difference. Now, "GamerGate", without the s, is a scandal involving corruption in games journalism. Why should she mention TB taking an anti-corruption stance 3 years ago in an article about harassment? Besides, "GamerGate Day" is really August 28th. That's when the "Gamers Are Dead" articles came out, and the hashtag came into use.

Also funny how Ms. Sarkeesian performed a big song and dance at VidCon this very summer about YouTubers like Sargon of Akkad supposedly being responsible if some negligible portion of their followers harasses people. And then she turns around and paints a target on Dale's back for her obsequious hordes to practice their stabbing on.

Luckily, Kotaku UK apologized to the people they accidentally forced to harass one of their writers, so all is well again. Games fuckin' Journalism, eh?