So do you believe in ghosts? Why?

[Togs]

Man the amount of respect going on on threads like these are staggering. 30 people say no and think anyone who does is a moron, one person says yes, 25 people come back to insult the one person. Repeat until thread dies out. God forbid someone poke their head out and have a dissenting opinion.

When its a dissenting opinion based on nonsense then yes it will be picked apart.
I for one would love to find someone on the opposite side of the table whose opinions on the matter are based logic, rationality and good information but alas Im yet to find one.

 

[edudogel]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T69TOuqaqXI&feature=player_embedded
that is what i believe mostly

 

[infohippie]

I wish there were such things, but I'm not going to believe in anything until it can be measured and recorded, followed by hypotheses and experimentation to find a theory.

 

[Al-Bundy-da-G]

No, most of the things associated with ghosts mostly just hysteria and panic. Not to mention experiments that low frequency sound just out of hearing range can cause hallucinations, and ouija boards didnt exist til parker brothers decided to cash in on superstitious people.

 

[kouriichi]

As i said in my other post,
"The reason i linked Kirlian photography is because its direct proof of these fields.
The name for them in living creatures is "L-fields". ((other then that, its mostly magnetism))
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L-field
L-fields are given off by all living things.

This is, as i said, the MOST logical conclusion i have come to for "spirits". Not every person to come forward with a ghost or spirit related event has be insane. A decent percentage of UFO sightings are called in by police officers and radio tower workers at airports."

And as i said. ALL OBJECTS no matter how small, hold a position in spacetime. They all have an effect on it. Something this small wouldnt make a "big" event, but then again, our idea of "Big" is skewed by how small we are.

It doesnt even have to be a "big event". But it could be visible. What is mist? How actually big is mist? Its tiny. But because of the millions/billions/trillions of tiny events happening at once, its clearly visable.

As i said. Its my belief. And the most logical one i could scientifically explain. Would you rather, "every person in history whos seen a 'spirit' is crazy"?

1. The most logical conclusion you have come to? so that means becuse you say it is we shouldnt question it? Many brilliant minds have pondered the same thing as you and come to the opposite conclusion- if you think that you're their equal forgive me if I think you arrogant.

2. The rest of you post is just plain nonsensical, Ive read and reread and I still get the impression you have no clue what your talking about, and trying to suss out how what youve posted relates to what your trying to prove is not worth the effort required.

3. "The most logical one I could scientifically explain" apart from the atrocious english again relates back to my previous point, which instead of repeating Im gonna ask you what your qualifications are? Are you trained physicist? Or as I suspect a layman who has got hold of the wrong end of the stick.

4. Maybe not crazy but almost definately wrong- our senses lie to us, our eyes alone provide more information in a millisecond then our brains can process, this causes over 90% of what we see to be plain guess work on our brains part.
Whats more its been shown that we can replicate paranormal experiences in the lab, the one that jumps to the forefront of my mind is how back in the 1990's a bunch of psychologists where able induce "fits of relgious ectasy" in people by stimulating an area of the frontal lobe.

No. :/

1: i never said you shouldnt question it.

2: its simple. L-fields ((which are documented through K-photography)) are given off by humans and can be effect through mental and physical changes ((Such as traumatic events)). All objects in spacetime take up a position. Thus, the L-fields (like all other things) effect spacetime. These effects in space time can potentially be observed, felt, or seen after they happen. While i may not have a 100% full grasp on every little detail of all the advanced workings of everything in science history related to these subjects, doubtful you do either xD

3: My qualifications are probably the same as yours xD ((which would mean your right to question me is nill). My education extends to advanced physics ((equal to 1nd year collage)).
Are you a physicist? What are your qualifications to dictate that im wrong, and your right?

4: And yes, humans can be wrong. But the fact is, its more logical that something is happening we dont understand, then every human to every think they saw a spirit was wrong. We used to think the world was flat, angry people in the clouds told us how to live our lives, and that masturbating would give us hairy palms.
Just because we dont understand it, doesnt mean its never happening. Hell, ghosts could be Dark Matter for all we know.

As i said. This is just my belief. Did i say, "THIS IS WHATS CORRECT, AND YOU WILL ALL BELIEVE IT"? xD no. I said this is what i believe. Its not 100%, but almost nothing in science is.

EDIT: Whats with all these people questioning a simple belief? xD I use a little logic that i know isnt 100% and half a dozen people bite my head off, but someone could say, "yes, the boogeyman is real", and you would completely ignore him?

 

[dimensional]

I am still unconvinced I personally have never seen anything paranormal but I have seen 3 hardcore skeptics do a complete U-turn on their beliefs and become believers after their own separate (supposed) experiences, stuff like that generally dosent happen you dont change a deeply held belief on the fly without good reason you need irrefutable proof that you are wrong.

I do believe in many different forces at work however some that we are aware of and others we are not.

 

[kouriichi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T69TOuqaqXI&feature=player_embedded
that is what i believe mostly

I have to agree. We cant explain it,
but that doesnt mean its 100% fake in every scenario.

We also didnt think Dark Matter was real. We had no way to prove it does except for an obscure, single method.

Open mindedness is the most important things these days, but so many people are closed minded its almost like you have to have it in a jar for them to see, touch, and taste!

 

[edudogel]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T69TOuqaqXI&feature=player_embedded
that is what i believe mostly

I have to agree. We cant explain it,
but that doesnt mean its 100% fake in every scenario.

We also didnt think Dark Matter was real. We had no way to prove it does except for an obscure, single method.

Open mindedness is the most important things these days, but so many people are closed minded its almost like you have to have it in a jar for them to see, touch, and taste!

why thank you good sir or madem

 

[Ranorak]

1: i never said you shouldnt question it.

2: its simple. L-fields ((which are documented through K-photography)) are given off by humans and can be effect through mental and physical changes ((Such as traumatic events)). All objects in spacetime take up a position. Thus, the L-fields (like all other things) effect spacetime. These effects in space time can potentially be observed, felt, or seen after they happen. While i may not have a 100% full grasp on every little detail of all the advanced workings of everything in science history related to these subjects, doubtful you do either xD

I look into these L-fields, there is hardly any REAL evidence for it.
A hand full of scientists claim some form of expertise about them, but they are also slightly ticked that no one else seems to pay much attention to them.
All in all, a weak theory.

3: My qualifications are probably the same as yours xD ((which would mean your right to question me is nill). My education extends to advanced physics ((equal to 1nd year collage)).
Are you a physicist? What are your qualifications to dictate that im wrong, and your right?

Well, mine are a degree in biochemical engineering, biology and micro-biology.
And while it's not in physics, you're still the one making, frankly outrageous, claims about electromagnetic aura's travelling through space time and manifest as ghost sightings. and your only proof is a wonky theory about electromagnetic imprints.

4: And yes, humans can be wrong. But the fact is, its more logical that something is happening we dont understand, then every human to every think they saw a spirit was wrong. We used to think the world was flat, angry people in the clouds told us how to live our lives, and that masturbating would give us hairy palms.
Just because we dont understand it, doesnt mean its never happening. Hell, ghosts could be Dark Matter for all we know.

But that's just it, 99% of the ghost sightings we DO understand.
Conformation bias, power of suggesting (even to one self), Face perception, wishful thinking, Sleep paralysis, etc. There are many, logical explanations for "ghosts" which all boils down to not actually seeing what you thought you saw.

As i said. This is just my belief. Did i say, "THIS IS WHATS CORRECT, AND YOU WILL ALL BELIEVE IT"? xD no. I said this is what i believe. Its not 100%, but almost nothing in science is.

EDIT: Whats with all these people questioning a simple belief? xD I use a little logic that i know isnt 100% and half a dozen people bite my head off, but someone could say, "yes, the boogeyman is real", and you would completely ignore him?

Because, you give a argument for your believe that isn't based on much.
If someone says, "The boogeyman is real." he's just making a statement, if he were to give arguments for that, we'd be critic about those as well.

 

[thePyro_13]

Eh, yeah, its fine.
xD i didnt expect anyone else to believe it.
But i have a hard time believing every paranormal even in history has just been "the wind" and "bad lighting".
And no one has ever given a more logical explanation to these events.

But one thing to your post above, the L-field can vanish before physical death. So its more then just static electricity, which is why research went into it. A person's mental and emotional states both effect the field. So a traumatic event could increase the L-field.

xD but yes, as i stated, its not 100%. But its better then believing it could never be impossible. ((when one of the first rules of science is to not use the word))

Well I suppose that makes sense. Where all this paranormal stuff a really starts to fall apart for me, is when we ask why their is so little of it. Trauma is everywhere, people dying is everywhere, very few people feel fulfilled by the time they die. The sheer mass of instances which can supposedly cause this kind of thing(ghosts, paranormal, etc) to manifest should mean that we are pretty much drowning in ghosts, and yet all we ever hear is a story or two every year. It just doesn't add up.

 

[Knight Captain Kerr]

I strongly dislike the term "supernatural" and the implication that Science and the "Supernatural" are at odds.

Anything that exists, is natural. Anything that exists, CAN be proven by science. It is simply that we lack the technology and scientific theory to explain it.

I also hate the term supernatural for the same reasons.
As for me I really don't know if ghosts are real or not.

 

[kouriichi]

1: i never said you shouldnt question it.

2: its simple. L-fields ((which are documented through K-photography)) are given off by humans and can be effect through mental and physical changes ((Such as traumatic events)). All objects in spacetime take up a position. Thus, the L-fields (like all other things) effect spacetime. These effects in space time can potentially be observed, felt, or seen after they happen. While i may not have a 100% full grasp on every little detail of all the advanced workings of everything in science history related to these subjects, doubtful you do either xD

I look into these L-fields, there is hardly any REAL evidence for it.
A hand full of scientists claim some form of expertise about them, but they are also slightly ticked that no one else seems to pay much attention to them.
All in all, a weak theory.

3: My qualifications are probably the same as yours xD ((which would mean your right to question me is nill). My education extends to advanced physics ((equal to 1nd year collage)).
Are you a physicist? What are your qualifications to dictate that im wrong, and your right?

Well, mine are a degree in biochemical engineering, biology and micro-biology.
And while it's not in physics, you're still the one making, frankly outrageous, claims about electromagnetic aura's travelling through space time and manifest as ghost sightings. and your only proof is a wonky theory about electromagnetic imprints.

4: And yes, humans can be wrong. But the fact is, its more logical that something is happening we dont understand, then every human to every think they saw a spirit was wrong. We used to think the world was flat, angry people in the clouds told us how to live our lives, and that masturbating would give us hairy palms.
Just because we dont understand it, doesnt mean its never happening. Hell, ghosts could be Dark Matter for all we know.

But that's just it, 99% of the ghost sightings we DO understand.
Conformation bias, power of suggesting (even to one self), Face perception, wishful thinking, Sleep paralysis, etc. There are many, logical explanations for "ghosts" which all boils down to not actually seeing what you thought you saw.

As i said. This is just my belief. Did i say, "THIS IS WHATS CORRECT, AND YOU WILL ALL BELIEVE IT"? xD no. I said this is what i believe. Its not 100%, but almost nothing in science is.

EDIT: Whats with all these people questioning a simple belief? xD I use a little logic that i know isnt 100% and half a dozen people bite my head off, but someone could say, "yes, the boogeyman is real", and you would completely ignore him?

Because, you give a argument for your believe that isn't based on much.
If someone says, "The boogeyman is real." he's just making a statement, if he were to give arguments for that, we'd be critic about those as well.

Lol. So youre specifically targeting my belief, because i give a reason why? xD
And while yes, it is different, so are most theories that pop up.
You yes again, dont have to believe it. You can argue with it. But unless you understand every little bit of spacetime, the workings of every level of magnetism, and the every aspect of the human body, with definitive proof that theres another reason for ghosts existance, or non-existence, it just comes down to you, challanging my belief because you dont believe it.

You dont believe ghosts exist xD Fine. Why dont you believe they exist? Lets see what makes your reason they dont any stronger then my reason they do. ((Basically what your doing here))

We cant explain ghosts. We cant disprove them. No belief is wrong, nor right in this situation. My belief is based on more then most. The people who think, "YES THEY EXIST" normally dont give a reason why other then fuzzy photos. At least im making some effort to explain them other then, "Everyone whos seen one is crazy, paranoid or stupid".

 

[kouriichi]

Eh, yeah, its fine.
xD i didnt expect anyone else to believe it.
But i have a hard time believing every paranormal even in history has just been "the wind" and "bad lighting".
And no one has ever given a more logical explanation to these events.

But one thing to your post above, the L-field can vanish before physical death. So its more then just static electricity, which is why research went into it. A person's mental and emotional states both effect the field. So a traumatic event could increase the L-field.

xD but yes, as i stated, its not 100%. But its better then believing it could never be impossible. ((when one of the first rules of science is to not use the word))

Well I suppose that makes sense. Where all this paranormal stuff a really starts to fall apart for me, is when we ask why their is so little of it. Trauma is everywhere, people dying is everywhere, very few people feel fulfilled by the time they die. The sheer mass of instances which can supposedly cause this kind of thing(ghosts, paranormal, etc) to manifest should mean that we are pretty much drowning in ghosts, and yet all we ever hear is a story or two every year. It just doesn't add up.

Most things dont make any sense until a theory is proven right.
People dont like mine it seems, and i can understand that! xD
People also didnt like the idea that the world is round, lightening is not caused by gods, and that the church isnt 100% correct on everything they say.

Its just a theory. Its more likely it has to do with something we dont understand ((and probably wont for a long time)) then everyone whos ever had a sighting/interaction/heardvoices is either crazy, or imagining things.
Im just giving my 50c on what it is.

 

[thePyro_13]

Eh, yeah, its fine.
xD i didnt expect anyone else to believe it.
But i have a hard time believing every paranormal even in history has just been "the wind" and "bad lighting".
And no one has ever given a more logical explanation to these events.

But one thing to your post above, the L-field can vanish before physical death. So its more then just static electricity, which is why research went into it. A person's mental and emotional states both effect the field. So a traumatic event could increase the L-field.

xD but yes, as i stated, its not 100%. But its better then believing it could never be impossible. ((when one of the first rules of science is to not use the word))

Well I suppose that makes sense. Where all this paranormal stuff a really starts to fall apart for me, is when we ask why their is so little of it. Trauma is everywhere, people dying is everywhere, very few people feel fulfilled by the time they die. The sheer mass of instances which can supposedly cause this kind of thing(ghosts, paranormal, etc) to manifest should mean that we are pretty much drowning in ghosts, and yet all we ever hear is a story or two every year. It just doesn't add up.

Most things dont make any sense until a theory is proven right.
People dont like mine it seems, and i can understand that! xD
People also didnt like the idea that the world is round, lightening is not caused by gods, and that the church isnt 100% correct on everything they say.

Its just a theory. Its more likely it has to do with something we dont understand ((and probably wont for a long time)) then everyone whos ever had a sighting/interaction/heardvoices is either crazy, or imagining things.
Im just giving my 50c on what it is.

I suppose it doesn't help when the vocal portion of the paranormal believers act like the entire thing is obvious and easily provable, that they have special ways of measuring ghosts and that they easily effect the physical world(if that were true, evidence would be everywhere xD). Scientists have to put up with really nonsense claims so often that they'd obviously become jaded towards paranormal stuff(another blurry picture, or another story about a house creaking, yay).

Ghost shows on TV really really get to me, such nonsense. They talk about using heat vision and altimeters, if it were that easy, then we'd have heaps of valid evidence by now. I was watching one, where a woman was using a heat vision camera to look for ghosts, and then decided to turn the heater on, to stir up the ghost. She gets all excited and claims undeniable proof of ghosts after the camera picks up the heat in the room :rollseyes:. They also claim the entire show to be a true story and all that crap. Blegh :F

 

[kouriichi]

Eh, yeah, its fine.
xD i didnt expect anyone else to believe it.
But i have a hard time believing every paranormal even in history has just been "the wind" and "bad lighting".
And no one has ever given a more logical explanation to these events.

But one thing to your post above, the L-field can vanish before physical death. So its more then just static electricity, which is why research went into it. A person's mental and emotional states both effect the field. So a traumatic event could increase the L-field.

xD but yes, as i stated, its not 100%. But its better then believing it could never be impossible. ((when one of the first rules of science is to not use the word))

Well I suppose that makes sense. Where all this paranormal stuff a really starts to fall apart for me, is when we ask why their is so little of it. Trauma is everywhere, people dying is everywhere, very few people feel fulfilled by the time they die. The sheer mass of instances which can supposedly cause this kind of thing(ghosts, paranormal, etc) to manifest should mean that we are pretty much drowning in ghosts, and yet all we ever hear is a story or two every year. It just doesn't add up.

Most things dont make any sense until a theory is proven right.
People dont like mine it seems, and i can understand that! xD
People also didnt like the idea that the world is round, lightening is not caused by gods, and that the church isnt 100% correct on everything they say.

Its just a theory. Its more likely it has to do with something we dont understand ((and probably wont for a long time)) then everyone whos ever had a sighting/interaction/heardvoices is either crazy, or imagining things.
Im just giving my 50c on what it is.

I suppose it doesn't help when the vocal portion of the paranormal believers act like the entire thing is obvious and easily provable, that they have special ways of measuring ghosts and that they easily effect the physical world(if that were true, evidence would be everywhere xD). Scientists have to put up with really nonsense claims so often that they'd obviously become jaded towards paranormal stuff(another blurry picture, or another story about a house creaking, yay).

Ghost shows on TV really really get to me, such nonsense. They talk about using heat vision and altimeters, if it were that easy, then we'd have heaps of valid evidence by now. I was watching one, where a woman was using a heat vision camera to look for ghosts, and then decided to turn the heater on, to stir up the ghost. She gets all excited and claims undeniable proof of ghosts after the camera picks up the heat in the room :rollseyes:. They also claim the entire show to be a true story and all that crap. Blegh :F

People have their bias xD
Its something that will never change, because you really cant change humans.
Until a real scientific method of detecting ghosts comes up, people with either say, "NO THEY DONT EXIST BECAUSE YOU CANT PROVE IT" or "THEY EXIST BECAUSE *insert Religious/personstory/blurrypicture comment*".

People never take the middle ground and say, "its possible, but and heres why".
While my reason may not be perfect, at least its a reason xD

 

[Merkavar]

i dont believe.

partly cause i dont believe in an after life
partly cause i have not seen a ghost or any evidence of one other that photoshoped images etc
partly cause billions have died so even if 1% of people turn into ghosts thats still millions of ghost that dont exist.

 

[Last Hugh Alive]

I don't believe in ghosts. Why should I? I've never seen one and nobody I've ever met has claimed to see one.

 

[siNwrath]

Yes. Somethings you just cant explain with science atm.

There are so many things wrong with this statement that I don't know where to begin. From being a huge cop out and not a real argument, to there actually being many theories that explain the phenomenon that we attribute so redily to ghosts, to uncertainty being the fucking point of science.

No, I don't believe in ghosts. There is not enough evidence to support the existence of ghosts, and the evidence that is there is flimsy as hell, and generally pushed by people with an agenda. Which quite frankly is insulting.

Remember that, just because it is not written or you find some gap, does not give you permission to run wild and make crap up. Science is not creative writing.

 

[ScharanoidPizofrenic]

So your saying my entire theory makes no sense, because there are echos in spacetime, and that our auras do affect space time? xD

And ALL things effect spacetime. Every object with mass ((for something to exist it basically must)) effects the spacetime.
And if you knew alot about Kirlian photo's, youd know they capture the L-field of living things. ((Which is a literal energy field.))
And you are right, the field is effected by a persons mental state, AND as i said in my first post "traumatic events" could be what cause these ripples. During traumatic events, no doubt a person would be feeling intense fear/anger/sadness, which out effect their field.

xD You help prove my theory by saying ripples possibly do exist, tell me that i was right about the field, and curse like a mad man? A logical person as you said you are would have noticed this half way through your post, and that posting it would have just made YOU seem like less of a rational person here. Considering most ration people dont use phrases such as "fart out some brainshit". The simple fact you took this from "Debate" to "RAAAAAGE *Curse curse insult*" in a thread about something that "probably" doesnt exist anyway proves your not logical.

Holy shit not only have you deluded yourself into thinking you make rational and logic based decisionsy you've also fooled yourself into the misconception that you're intelligent enough for a discussion like this. As with your previous posts you make large erronous leaps in reasoning, easily recognisable to anyone slightly educated in the sciences. You're trying to rationalise your irrational belief system and in the process you rely on your imagination to come up with theories of why and how that seem "believable" to an ignorant mind.


I'll destroy your shitty post paragraph at a time.


I'm saying you don't have the vaguest clue what kind of shit you're spewing about echo's in spacetime. So I tried to make my point so that a clueless moron like you would get it. A ripple or whatever you choose to call this figment of your imagination doesn't just get the magical property of denying our laws of physics just because you put it in the same sentence as space time. The shit you spew is pure fiction.

You keep repeating that every object with mass affects spacetime. Yeah so what? All spacetime does is define gravitational pull as a result of high mass objects distorting the space time web. The larger the mass the more the space time web is dented and the more gravitational pull. You say aura's of traumatic events cause the air to be chilly because the energies at that moment peaked, causing them to somehow act endothermic. This is in no way related to gravitational pull, this is in no way related to spacetime. Spacetime is just a fancy concept you misunderstand and apply to your own theories to make them sound more legit.

All this field crap is completely and utter bullshit. Have the decency to admit your speculation is not based on facts before you start filling openminded people's heads with fuck. I'll do some extensive web research about these L fields after this post, 20 bucks says it turns out to be some kind of magnetic field that retards misinterpret.

I never claimed to be logical. Yeah I hate idiots. I hate hypocrites. Ofcourse I'm gonna rage at idiots posting their phony theories presenting them as factual while claiming to be the most rational person on the planet.