So how is the gay marriage ruling going to impact you?

[Secondhand Revenant]

Well I mean a basic human right was *legalized* and there are a bunch of people celebrating for... some reason? Oh and the zealots and bigots coming out of the wood work so... yay?

I don't see how this is good news so I'll just add it to the "more reasons for anti-natalism" pile.

It's not like it could have a positive effect in some people's lives or anything

There's no point in debating with people who think they've discovered angst, or depression. More, there is no point in debating people who mistake their personal discovery with something valuable.

What you get instead are diatribes about how little anything or anyone matters, and then you realize... they're whining at me! These people who can't be bothered with anyone's feelings just want to have their feeling's heard, and this is the backwards way they've evolved to manage that.

I prefer to disengage, it's the better option IMO.

Well whether or not it's worth it to engage it's just a comment I wanted to put out there. Not just specifically to him but towards the attitude that because things could be better this isn't positive.

 

[Silvanus]

Well I mean a basic human right was *legalized* and there are a bunch of people celebrating for... some reason?

Why is it strange for people to celebrate a right being legalised? That's a step forward; a positive for many people. It would seem you agree with that, yet find it odd that people would be happy about it.

 

[rednose1]

Well, according to doomsayers, I have to get gay married now. Which is gonna be tough, been slacking on the regular married thing. Think I'll kill two birds with one stone and just marry into an already engaged couple. Hope one of them knows how to cook, I hate cooking.

 

[DerangedHobo]

No. I'm calling cynicism and misanthropy lazy and cowardly, and I'd add arrogance to that list.

*Ahem*

Intellectually any time you stop thinking about the range of possibilities and settle on JUST ONE that feels right to you? Retreat. Lazy. Surrender.

That criteria more than accounts for suicide, I should also note that if you feel like responding to me in the future, I would appreciate that you refer to the rest of my comment as well, instead of just disregarding it all to reiterate your previous statement. It would seem that you are the one who is closed off to dissenting ideas here, not I.

Well I mean a basic human right was *legalized* and there are a bunch of people celebrating for... some reason? Oh and the zealots and bigots coming out of the wood work so... yay?

I don't see how this is good news so I'll just add it to the "more reasons for anti-natalism" pile.

It's not like it could have a positive effect in some people's lives or anything

There's no point in debating with people who think they've discovered angst, or depression. More, there is no point in debating people who mistake their personal discovery with something valuable.

What you get instead are diatribes about how little anything or anyone matters, and then you realize... they're whining at me! These people who can't be bothered with anyone's feelings just want to have their feeling's heard, and this is the backwards way they've evolved to manage that.

I prefer to disengage, it's the better option IMO.

Well whether or not it's worth it to engage it's just a comment I wanted to put out there. Not just specifically to him but towards the attitude that because things could be better this isn't positive.

With all due respect, you miss my point entirely. It is not that this cannot have any positive impact, it is that it's positive impact is too little, too late. A movement which has been opposed by the bigoted and the zealous at every turn. A movement which has sacrificed so much for so little.

I am rather insulted by Dynast Brass' comments about how I am somehow disregarding the work of individuals and their feelings, on the contrary, due to modern conveniences I have been privy to much. I say what I say not out of some smug superiority or casual angst but out of a deep sadness for my fellow man. My opinion is that modern society does not deserve the righteous and those who strive for the betterment of their fellow man, not just for their quick fix or sweet ignorance.

I hate the legalization of gay marriage because it highlights everything wrong with humanity. We have just learned to stop shitting ourselves (arguably, many have not even learned that) and we CELEBRATE that fact. As a bisexual and someone who doesn't even have a slightest interest in marrying someone, that disgusts me, outright repulses me. I am not decrying the work of people towards a common humanistic goal, I am decrying those who thought it'd be a good idea to get up on their soapbox and shit on the lives of others. It is not a victory, it is an eternal struggle to justify continuing.

*snip*

Refer to previous comment.

 

[Silvanus]

Refer to previous comment.

You believe it's "too little, too late"; that it should never have taken this long-- and this is why you hate the fact that it's happening now? You'd still prefer it didn't happen; prefer people go without that right now, because they... should have had it earlier?

That's profoundly irrational.

 

[DerangedHobo]

You believe it's "too little, too late"; that it should never have taken this long-- and this is why you hate the fact that it's happening now? You'd still prefer it didn't happen; prefer people go without that right now, because they... should have had it earlier?

That's profoundly irrational.

I didn't say I'd prefer people go without it right now (not to my half drunk knowledge) but the overt celebration of the fact that a basic right got legalized in a first world country (a super power, no less) shows that there is something very wrong with the world.

It is the way that it has been painted as a victory when in fact it has been an uphill climb, with bigotry still alive and well in multiple first world countries. If it isn't towards homosexuals, it's towards transsexuals. If it isn't towards them it's towards some other minority class or ethnic background.

You may say that "love won" and I will concede that point, but not after it has been dragged through the streets, beaten and lynched a few times beforehand.

 

[hazydawn]

You may say that "love won" and I will concede that point, but not after it has been dragged through the streets, beaten and lynched a few times beforehand.

Exactly my sentiment. I don't see how you can say it's not good news though, and that's probably what got Silvanus confused as well. It's a step in the right direction, even if I you and I think it's too little too late, doesn't change that.

Humanity just seems to take way too much time to adjust it's views. The majority of the population doesn't think for themselves but simply goes with an opinion fed to them.
I live in Germany, and as Amaror on page 4 pointed out, we have some form of gay marriage that is not exactly equal and also not called "marriage," because religious people hold that word so fucking dear. Can't have some dirty faggots sully it! What I'm trying to get to is that far from this ruling having some inpact on politics in Germany, it will still take an depressingly long amount of time to get to equality. Even though there is no rational argument against it. Not to mention conservative countries like Japan. Fuck you, Japan!

Does somebody want to argue against me that two adults in an incestious relationship shouldn't be allowed to marry?
I know it's playing into the hands of the slippery-slope-tards, but as I see it there's also no rational basis for denying those people that. Even coitus is under penalty in Germany.

 

[DerangedHobo]

I don't see how you can say it's not good news though, and that's probably what got Silvanus confused as well. It's a step in the right direction, even if I you and I think it's too little too late, doesn't change that.

I do not count marriage getting legalized as "good news", I prefer to call it a victory. Like warfare, it was a "win" at a cost. If I were to call it good news, I'd call it good news in the same way that a world war ending is good news or being released from captivity is "good news" but even then, I refuse to celebrate it.

Humanity just seems to take way too much time to adjust it's views. The majority of the population doesn't think for themselves but simply goes with an opinion fed to them.

I mean, I agree with you but I feel that the affirmation can be seen as elevating my own position.

Even though there is no rational argument against it. Not to mention conservative countries like Japan. Fuck you, Japan!

And yet, the irrational do and always have held control over political discourse. It's bullshit and a Pyrrhic victory after centuries of shit doesn't endear me to the idea. Then there's also the possibility of us sliding back, not like it hasn't happened before.

Does somebody want to argue against me that two adults in an incestious relationship shouldn't be allowed to marry?
I know it's playing into the hands of the slippery-slope-tards, but as I see it there's also no rational basis for denying those people that.

Ahhhhh... that thread... yeahhhh....

Fanatics do not appreciate you offering contradictory evidence against their ideology, they resent it. He's not someone who thinks that there will be bad outcomes, he thinks there MUST be bad outcomes. He does this knowingly or not, by cherrypicking negative examples and minimizing positive ones. By offering another positive example, however isolated, however reasonably, it will be taken as an attack.

Did... did you not read what I wrote? This isn't "cherry picking", this is pointing out the big stack of bodies and suffering that has happened to get civil rights in general to this point in time. The fact that I have the majority of human history and knowledge at my fingertips and a country allegedly founded on the ideals of liberty took 3 fucking centuries to learn that two people of the same sex can enter into a glorified contract. That is my point of contention, I will admit that I most likely have a range of biases, negatively reinforced over the years but this is not one of those points.

What I do take as an attack however is being calling a fanatic. That's a big "don't listen to this sandwich board wearing asshole" middle finger to what I say.

Edit: Quoting error

 

[DerangedHobo]

*snip*

And with that one line response, I'm going to your previous advice and disengage.

 

[Silvanus]

I didn't say I'd prefer people go without it right now

Ah, OK. I had you wrong, in that case, and apologise.

but the overt celebration of the fact that a basic right got legalized in a first world country (a super power, no less) shows that there is something very wrong with the world.

It is the way that it has been painted as a victory when in fact it has been an uphill climb, with bigotry still alive and well in multiple first world countries. If it isn't towards homosexuals, it's towards transsexuals. If it isn't towards them it's towards some other minority class or ethnic background.

You may say that "love won" and I will concede that point, but not after it has been dragged through the streets, beaten and lynched a few times beforehand.

See, everything you've written here, I would agree with. This victory doesn't mean the job is even close to finished. This victory was far harder won than it should have been. We're entirely on the same pages there.

What I find strange is the suggestion that we therefore shouldn't celebrate. That conclusion simply doesn't follow from the above. It was tougher to obtain the victory than it should have been, so we shouldn't be as happy when we finally win?

 

[DerangedHobo]

Ah, OK. I had you wrong, in that case, and apologise.

No apology needed, Poe's law and all that. Besides, I'm raining on your parade, not vice versa.

What I find strange is the suggestion that we therefore shouldn't celebrate. That conclusion simply doesn't follow from the above. It was tougher to obtain the victory than it should have been, so we shouldn't be as happy when we finally win?

It just does not seem that celebration is warranted, this should be something that was already in place. It is like celebrating the end of the American civil war and the abolishment of slavery, too much was lost, too much blind opposition to the cause, to something which anyone which can do basic math would see that this should be the standard, not something that needed to be protested for decades. At the end of the day, people are still at eachother's throats, force will always answer force and ideas of innocence or utopia seem to be more childish by the day.

I believe the misconception with the rights was when I said this:

I say what I say not out of some smug superiority or casual angst but out of a deep sadness for my fellow man. My opinion is that modern society does not deserve the righteous and those who strive for the betterment of their fellow man, not just for their quick fix or sweet ignorance.

I stand by that notion, that there is a caliber of individual which strives above us all, which acts as a role model. And you know what they get for their hard work, devotion and principle? They get shot repeatedly in the chest by extremists. When you see things through that scope, you have to wonder if humanity is even worth it at the end of the day. Putting aside notions of existentialism, you are left with the idea that it is futile. Humanity will not die out, this jig will continue and the cycle cannot be broken.

 

[hazydawn]

Nice, I'll look into that incest thread. Haven't heard a rational argument against it.. okay maybe not a one I'd consider good enough to negate people's freedom (bearing children being a different issue).

I mean, I agree with you but I feel that the affirmation can be seen as elevating my own position.

I appreciate your misanthropy. Sadly you don't find these opinions that often, everyone is so god damn optimistic, it's disgusting ^^
I'm also pessimistic concerning how humanity will fare in the future. Looking at the deplorable features of humanity, how they behave in groups, it is apparant to me how much we share with monkeys it terms of behaviour. Can't really see anybody could deny that. Quote from Hitchens:
"It shows very well that religion is created ... by a species half a chromosome away from a chimpanzee." Or something along the lines in different variation.
Add human history to that and I can't see how people can be so otimistic. That is, if our nature stays that way. Maybe we can change that scientifically, maybe evolution will (I'm not an expert ^^). The only thing that may keep progressing in the right direction is culture. But that is, as you also pointed out not safe from regressing. Add nuclear bombs into the mix and shit can go downhill pretty fast I'm not excluding myself from this judgement btw. We are priviledged in this day and age that we have the possibility to form an educated opinion, built upon the ideas and knowledge of those that came before us, to have enough time in our daily lifes, not having to worry about basic bodily needs, to access this and think. <- probably a run-on sentence :/

...after writing this I came to the conclusion that it'd be a very good idea to teach adolescents how culture works("cultural studies"). An Ethics class should also be mandatory... But we have to get them ready for the job-market so we can produce more shit we don't need. Horray for capitalism.

I stand by that notion, that there is a caliber of individual which strives above us all, which acts as a role model. And you know what they get for their hard work, devotion and principle? They get shot repeatedly in the chest by extremists.

Or die in their beds without making much of an impact. Who are you talking about exactly here? :0

PS: I'm too lazy now to reread everything I wrote. Keep the grammar and spelling mistakes you find and have a good day :3

 

[DerangedHobo]

...after writing this I came to the conclusion that it'd be a very good idea to teach adolescents how culture works("cultural studies"). An Ethics class should also be mandatory... But we have to get them ready for the job-market so we can produce more shit we don't need. Horray for capitalism.

You said it yourself, hooray capitalism. People may argue that culture is progressing and in areas of civil rights there has been progress. The main problem is that the foundations are rotten, people are programmed to focus on the material and the fleeting. Is that their fault? I'd argue that to a point it isn't and we are all victim to this. Capitalism and the state appeals to our sensibilities, to our impulses and few rise above that.

Or die in their beds without making much of an impact.

They don't need to make an impact, their daily rituals positively impact themselves and those around them enough. They don't have to be great humanitarians or inventors.

Who are you talking about exactly here?:0

The specific person I had in mind to that was Mahatama Gandhi, mainly due to the contrast between his pacifist preachings/lifestyle and his brutal assassination.

Have a good day :3

Likewise.

 

[Spider RedNight]

As an aromantic asexual, it personally probably affects my subcategory of people the least; I mean, I guess, unless I DO happen to find love in someone who's my sex and I can get married wherever I want in the US. But I don't see that happening anytime soon.

I WILL agree with the people that are mentioning the annoying flood of rainbows, but that's not me being against gays; I just don't really like the rainbow assortment and all the colour is just... it feels a bit excessive. I'M OFFENDED THAT EVERYTHING ISN'T GREY, DAMMIT

 

[kmagaro74]

So for those in the US, the ruling about gay marriages being legal nationwide is a significant event, and I'm curious how it's going to impact others. Mostly in a professional manner, but also in a private angle.

For me, it's going to impact filing claims for veterans, as they will now be able to list their same sex partner as a spouse for benefits purposes. They will be able to provide them with medical coverage, provide them with education benefits, and let them receive widow benefits in the event that they die. Which I'm quite happy for.

Personally, it might mean I get to use my status as an ordained Dudeist Priest to marry some people. xD

So how, if at all, is the ruling going to impact you on a professional/personal level?

Well, I live in Mississippi, so now I get to hear about how the country is going to hell, new Sodom and Gomorrah, etc etc. Oh, and I get to listen to local politicians try to finagle and loophole their way around having to actually follow federal law (Mississippi, for example, is toying with the idea of just... not giving out state marriage licenses at all. To anybody. Any more). The amount of obliviousness to what happened the last time the South was on the wrong side of the history and tried to defy the federal government over a Civil rights issue is astonishing. This is not a fight we win, and this is not a fight we wind up coming out looking good in the end.

Also there are some pretty unnerving ads on the radio now. There was this ad about Christians needing to buy and fly their own Christian flag, because the US doesn't represent them any more, along with a countryish song about rising evil and having to stand up to it for the children, etc etc. It didn't help that people were already super-mad about people daring to question the Confederate flag and whether we should have it (the flag of a hostile, rebel nation that started a war to try and permanently break the US apart, resulting in the deaths of over 800,000 Americans, purely to try and prop on their own slavery-based economic system) as part of our official state flag still.

The fact that I am the only pseudo-democrat in my family (I tend to lean more left than right, but I don't consider myself a raging liberal or anything) just makes all this awkward for me in general.

Exactly the same on the whole "Sodom and Gomorrah" thing, everyone around me in Texas is talking about how this will end Christianity and shit, I'm like come on, we already know Christianity isn't true, don't make me prove it just to shove this back in your face