If they are deaf, they are already a liability because they can't hear sounds and music important in most games, such as a grenade landing nearby or someone firing at you. If they are mute, they wouldn't have a mic and would get treated the same as any other no-mic. If they can't speak English, language barriers are almost as bad as no language at all. Other than screaming, they can't communicate.
Gaming is my hobby. If someone walked up to a painter and put a mark on the work he was doing all day, it would piss up the painter. In the same sense, if someone ruins my gametime, I'm going to be pissed. I can have fun and still lose, if the other team proved more skilled. But if someone on my team gave us a handicap I didn't want, I'm mad because a portion of my limited time was just ruined.
I had to yell at a friend of mine just the other day for pulling a stupid move that cost of the match. I play seriously and competitively. I want to win and that doesn't happen by being an idiot, bad player, or jackass.
Yep, because you have a full record of the number of times I've attempted the Expert level of campaign, huh? All ONE of them. Don't be a ***** and then call me elitist. My preference is Versus mode because I like playing against humans, as do my friends.
Actually it can be a pain if you're trying to coordinate and a player can't communicate. The problem is common consensus is that if we can't communicate in a team based game you're a hindrance. Certainly its not always the case, and if you can pull your own weight or play on lower difficulties you can definitely bypass the need for a mic. Though the fact still remains that most people don't fall into those percentiles so the communication is required.
Typing is always, always slower than speaking. Especially was you can't play and type at the same time.
No mic means you are a worse player. Some people don't wat to play with people who not only will be less fun to play with because you can't start up a conversation, but also have a giant handicap.
It's totally fair. Buy a goddamned mic.
Also, stand alone mics are not good enough. Buy a headset. We don't want to hear everything you hear.
OK, I have a massive speech impediment. Someone on the other thread about this was mute. Should we still have mics to appease you? Do you want to hear me mumbling and slurring that I'm under attack? Am I just banned from playing online co-op because I don't want to subject other people to my voice?
Come to think of it, what about deaf players? They can't hear you anyway. Are they banned because you say so?
Are you being wilfully ignorant or are you just overly sensitive? I never once said that people who don't have mics or otherwise can't communicate shouldn't play. I just said that they are likely making the game less fun for everyone they play with, meaning that it's perfectly fair when they are kicked from games. Of couse they can play. I just don't have to play with them.
Besides, I probably wouldn't play with a mute person or a deaf person, not in a game where those are serious handicaps, and I need to rely on these people to play. Obviously, any game where not being able to quickly communicate isn't a problem is fine.
In my experience, most (not all) people who are in fact using a mic are these following people.
5-10% of the people w mic: Very good ("Elite"?) players who want to communicate faster. 90-95% of the people w mic: Twelve year-olds with VERY VERY LOUD VOICES who like to bark a lot of swear words at everyone else because that makes them "cool".
Yep, because you have a full record of the number of times I've attempted the Expert level of campaign, huh? All ONE of them. Don't be a ***** and then call me elitist. My preference is Versus mode because I like playing against humans, as do my friends.
In my experience, most (not all) people who are in fact using a mic are these following people.
5-10% of the people w mic: Very good ("Elite"?) players who want to communicate faster. 90-95% of the people w mic: Twelve year-olds with VERY VERY LOUD VOICES who like to bark a lot of swear words at everyone else because that makes them "cool".
If they are deaf, they are already a liability because they can't hear sounds and music important in most games, such as a grenade landing nearby or someone firing at you. If they are mute, they wouldn't have a mic and would get treated the same as any other no-mic. If they can't speak English, language barriers are almost as bad as no language at all. Other than screaming, they can't communicate.
According to some people, not being able to communicate is an unwelcome disadvantage in a teammate; it hinders the team and hurts their fun. So then yes, they wouldn't be allowed to play, with the important conditional with them. Not letting certain people play with them is not uncommon with any sort of community, especially anonymous online ones - for instance, griefers who intentionally kill themselves for their own amusement are not welcome on many teams. The difference being, of course, the latter make a decision, whereas the former cannot. Logically, this isn't fair, but no one said it was supposed to be.
Moreover, it should be pointed out that "shouldn't be allowed to play" is inaccurate here. Of course they can play, and I'm sure somewhere there's whole communities built around their shared identity as deaf or mute or whatever, and I'm sure a lot of people would be accommodating.
Nevertheless, such a thought is ever so slightly off-topic; the question was, "why do I need a mic?" and the answer is, when communication is important, it is the most efficient method by far, as it runs parallel to other processes (typing means you have to stop for even a small amount of time; with voice you do not). The optimal choice is clear. The only question is the utility granted by communication. This is why people point to Left 4 Dead - the game about teamwork and coordination; additional information in that game can be invaluable, and so effective communication has a very high utility.
Yep, because you have a full record of the number of times I've attempted the Expert level of campaign, huh? All ONE of them. Don't be a ***** and then call me elitist. My preference is Versus mode because I like playing against humans, as do my friends.
Opps. You got me. I'm obviously a horrible player, seeing as I don't have one of the well-known bugged achievements from the Crash Course DLC. What else can we list off that I don't have? I mean, 42 out of 60 achievements of L4D isn't enough to impress you it seems, so let me just skip work and go achievement whoring until you like me.
If they are deaf, they are already a liability because they can't hear sounds and music important in most games, such as a grenade landing nearby or someone firing at you. If they are mute, they wouldn't have a mic and would get treated the same as any other no-mic. If they can't speak English, language barriers are almost as bad as no language at all. Other than screaming, they can't communicate.
According to some people, not being able to communicate is an unwelcome disadvantage in a teammate; it hinders the team and hurts their fun. So then yes, they wouldn't be allowed to play, with the important conditional with them. Not letting certain people play with them is not uncommon with any sort of community, especially anonymous online ones - for instance, griefers who intentionally kill themselves for their own amusement are not welcome on many teams. The difference being, of course, the latter make a decision, whereas the former cannot. Logically, this isn't fair, but no one said it was supposed to be.
Moreover, it should be pointed out that "shouldn't be allowed to play" is inaccurate here. Of course they can play, and I'm sure somewhere there's whole communities built around their shared identity as deaf or mute or whatever, and I'm sure a lot of people would be accommodating.
Nevertheless, such a thought is ever so slightly off-topic; the question was, "why do I need a mic?" and the answer is, when communication is important, it is the most efficient method by far, as it runs parallel to other processes (typing means you have to stop for even a small amount of time; with voice you do not). The optimal choice is clear. The only question is the utility granted by communication. This is why people point to Left 4 Dead - the game about teamwork and coordination; additional information in that game can be invaluable, and so effective communication has a very high utility.
It's only off topic if there are no gamers who refuse to or cannot use mics for disability reasons. I just think it's kind of dickish to boot someone solely for not having a mic. I thought it would be interesting to find out what gamers feel about people who cannot use one, and it has been.
Oh, I can explain that one. It's because no one wants to play Crash Course.
Jeez, lighten up on the guy. So he gets his jollies off in a way different from you. I don't like his policies either, but not a reason to bait him.
Personally, I do use a mic and it's somewhat expected for everyone in my social circles to do the same, but I usually only play with friends because I don't find gaming with strangers to be nearly as fun. If someone doesn't have a mic or equivalent (say, it broke, or is too quiet), it's no big deal, but I have seen it hurt our game performance, and I can understand how that can annoy certain people.
It's only off topic if there are no gamers who refuse to or cannot use mics for disability reasons. I just think it's kind of dickish to boot someone solely for not having a mic. I thought it would be interesting to find out what gamers feel about people who cannot use one, and it has been.
Then I guess it's more of a subtopic, but nonetheless it's quite a few steps removed from the "Why do I need a mic?" Not that it's a terrible thing that conversations flow from topic to topic, anyhow.
(Apologies for the doublepost. Kind of a relic of multithreaded conversations.)
I don't have a mic. Does this mean that I can't play L4D? Should I automatically be kicked from any online game because I can't actually talk to my allies, even though I can just as easily type something to them in the same amount of time? And the same goes for other online games. Is it really fair that people who don't have a mic shouldn't be able to enjoy online gaming like everyone else?
On a side note, what about dumb people? People who can't talk would have no need for a mic, yet may well enjoy gaming as much as anyone else. Where do people stand on that issue?
Any other game, and I'd say you'd be correct. Anyone who believes people without mics to be 'assholes' are idiots.
But, the thing is, the game is Left 4 Dead. Sure, 'assholes' is a very strong word, (a little too strong, in my opinion) but I still think that he is correct. Left 4 Dead is an intensely co-op game, and if you don't have a mic (and therefore can't communicate with your teammates well) you are hindering the rest of your teammates. With that in mind, I can fully understand why many people would want to kick you from their lobby - Left 4 Dead is just that kind of game.
That said, anyone who uses that same arguement in a game like Halo 3 is a douche.
But you don't need a mic for L4D, and Valve made sure that it wasn't that important. if it was, there would be a damn mic coming with the game!!
The characters SCREAM when something bad happens. BIG BOLD LETTERS SHOW UP ON EVERYONES SCREEN SAYING "XXX GOT YYYY!". The aura of a caught character turns bright shiny red. The music changes tune for everyone when a player is caught.
Do you really need a mic, when that much stuff turns on whenever a character is in the crapper, then you not paying attention to the game!
Also you are suppose to stick together in the game. If NONE of the 3 players can notice one dude being dragged by a Smoker...YOU DOING IT WRONG!
You don't need fancy mics to get through a L4D round. There is enough visual and audio cues inside the game to help a player. The only thing missing is Gabe Newell breaking the internet barriers and personally slap you with a sticker "A HUNTER HAS ZOE!".
A you don't make many intricate plans during a zombie rush now do you? No you do them in the quiet moments, BEFORE the rush. When you know...have time to type everything. And usually you don't need to type more than this:
Player1:Alright people, let's hide inside here, and when the thingie opens run for it. Aight?
Player2:Aight.
Player3:Aight
Player4:MmKay.
And if you need some fancy plan during a rush it usally comes naturally. Get to higher ground/trow a grenade/whatever.
A mic for L4D is not that important. Sure it helps here and there, but you really don't need 4 players with mics. You can play perfectlty fine without a mic Left 4 Dead. The game itself is not that complicated, that it requires all the time people having mics.
You can play fine Left 4 Dead without mics. If you want to use a mic, go ahead. If you don't want to use a mic, go ahead I won't care. You don't play insanely better with one.
I admit I don't play L4D, which seems to be the one that everyone brings up when they're talking about using mics, but is there no UI, is there no option for text input? While people with functioning ears and voiceboxes can go ahead and use mics, I just think that the direction that gaming is taking away from text based communication is making it a lot less inclusive for this with disabilities.
Text interfaces or chat protocols will pretty much always be available on PC for gamers with disabilities, and there's USB keyboard options for both PS3 and 360, as well as controller keyboard attachments, but most games don't support typing messages that appear on all user's screens. In Live you'd still have to go through the trouble of navigating the XBox menu system to do something like that.
I'm fine with gamers with disabilities playing console games as well, but they have to understand that trying to play an online co-op game where team work and communication is emphasized, they're going to face the same barriers they do outside of the gaming community.
Actually, I would like to thank people like you who don't have a mic. I can't count the number of times I've had to mute to keep from losing my mind. I mean I know they are there to communicate with other players but it is very hard to get some of the players with rather large egos to shut up. The last time I played L4D I was looking for the witch. I knew she was around and was trying to listen for her when all I could hear was a guy counting how many zombies he had killed in the game. Long story short, I got my head given to me on a silver platter by the witch cause I ran smack dab into her. SO mics, when used responsibly are very helpful, in the hands of a prat, totally useless. If you feel you must run out and buy one, go ahead but they aren't necessary in my opinion.
See, the problem with this argument, is that you can always Mute people who abuse the privilege, but there's no option to give voice to those that don't have one.
Actually, I would like to thank people like you who don't have a mic. I can't count the number of times I've had to mute to keep from losing my mind. I mean I know they are there to communicate with other players but it is very hard to get some of the players with rather large egos to shut up. The last time I played L4D I was looking for the witch. I knew she was around and was trying to listen for her when all I could hear was a guy counting how many zombies he had killed in the game. Long story short, I got my head given to me on a silver platter by the witch cause I ran smack dab into her. SO mics, when used responsibly are very helpful, in the hands of a prat, totally useless. If you feel you must run out and buy one, go ahead but they aren't necessary in my opinion.
See, the problem with this argument, is that you can always Mute people who abuse the privilege, but there's no option to give voice to those that don't have one.
In my experience, most (not all) people who are in fact using a mic are these following people.
5-10% of the people w mic: Very good ("Elite"?) players who want to communicate faster. 90-95% of the people w mic: Twelve year-olds with VERY VERY LOUD VOICES who like to bark a lot of swear words at everyone else because that makes them "cool".
I'm still trying to figure out what games these people are playing online where this is the case.... I'm not saying the whiny 12 year olds don't exist, I'm saying that I haven't come across that many of them.... certainly way less than half of the people I've ever met on there.
See, the problem with this argument, is that you can always Mute people who abuse the privilege, but there's no option to give voice to those that don't have one.
Yes... on PC.... not on Consoles... show me a console game with a scrolling text box for player communication. PC's generally come with keyboards and you're likely to be using them to play the game anyhow. We've been talking about Consoles pretty much the entire time because this is a much smaller issue on PC.
That actually raises a point I've been wondering about. I don't know if you play on Live or whatever, but I often hear stories from Halo that the opposing guys are screaming at you? Is that true? Is games played with 'All Talk' on? If so, why? At least in TDM and CTF it seems silly.
Most people prefer mics for games so you can call for help or bring something to your attention and if they just hate you for it then they are dicks..When I have to kick someone I send them a messedge explaining so they don't get mad.
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