So I finally figured out the problem with superhero comics

[aba1]

Ok so I have been reading superhero comics for about 2 years now and I am constantly put off and trying to figure out a way to read them properly. A few days ago the problem with them hit me. The reason so many people get put off of comics is the fact that DC and Marvel can't decide whether there is a constant story line or not. Sure officially there is a timeline and everything is supposed to fit into it but really none of the books are labeled correctly especially the graphic novels, which are constantly switching authors and artists. The continuity is a huge giant mess of confusion.

It is to the point it puts off hoards of potential readers. I don't think anybody would care if each story stood on its own or if it was all connected but the issues is DC and Marvel keep trying to do both at the same time, rather than choosing one or the other. If they are going to go the continuous story line approach they need to take some tips from manga where you simply get book one and then book two and so forth, if not they need to stop pretending it is all connected and drop all pretense of a coherent back story and just have each story stand on its own.

 

[Queen Michael]

none of the books are labeled correctly especially the graphic novels which are constantly switching authors and artists

I don't get it. What do you mean by "labeled correctly"?

Also, your text could use a few commas.

 

[aba1]

none of the books are labeled correctly especially the graphic novels which are constantly switching authors and artists

I don't get it. What do you mean by "labeled correctly"?

Also, your text could use a few commas.

Umm ok I will use this article I was just reading a few moments ago as a example since it is easy and quick to pull up

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/121265-Amazing-Spider-Man-Ends-With-Issue-700

So the last issue of Amazing Spiderman will be issue 700 but the story won't actually be ending, the story will continue with issue 1 of the Superior Spiderman. So if Superior Spiderman is number 1 than that logically means that it should in fact be the start of the story with no knowledge of Spiderman needed to start but it won't be the start of the story which is incredibly misleading and really improperly labeled since it isn't really the first issue of the story it is actually the 701st. This same logic could be applied to just about all the DC's New 52 line minus a handful of titles.

Ummm another example I could use was something that came up just a few days ago when I was lending my girlfriend a few graphic novels. The problem was that the series was 4 novels long but none of them had a number on them or any indication of which came first or last or even if they were even associated at all since the base title alone in comics doesn't even guarantee that. In the end we had to start reading them at random just to figure out the order and in the end after she had read them all it turned out we missed the first one and that was why huge chunks of the story were missing for her.


Last ya I might go through and alter some of my grammar though as long as it is only a few comma's missing it should be to bad as long as their are at least periods.

 

[perfectimo]

DC: The New 52
Not sure what Marvel is doing but DC realised their massive fault in doing reboot after reboot so they went back to zero.

 

[mattttherman3]

DC: The New 52
Not sure what Marvel is doing but DC realised their massive fault in doing reboot after reboot so they went back to zero.

Yeah, tell that to Green lantern and Batman, Minor changes only my friend.

 

[GiantRaven]

The problem with superhero comics is that they are way more popular than other comics that are way more inventive and interesting.

Yeah, tell that to Green lantern and Batman, Minor changes only my friend.

The changes to Batman continuity are a lot larger than you make out. They're also ridiculous and incredibly contradictory.

The Batman in 'Batman' seems completely unable to reside in the same story as the Batman in 'Batman Inc'.

 

[Queen Michael]

DC: The New 52
Not sure what Marvel is doing but DC realised their massive fault in doing reboot after reboot so they went back to zero.

Yeah, tell that to Green lantern and Batman, Minor changes only my friend.

And I've been reading Batwoman since issue #1, and as far as I can tell it's the same thing there. For the most part, it's just like before.

 

[Vault101]

super hero comics aren't too hard to read,if you just look at induvidual story arcs (like for example, batman:wargames,killing joke ect) and accept that its pretty much a self containted thing (and keep wikipedia close by), by that I mean what you do know or think you know will probably change in the future but there are always basic elements that remain as far as making any sense of continuity goes (unrelated but now I'm reading new 52 supergirl and enjoying it)

but yeah, they are a pain which is why I read very little superhero stuff

The problem with superhero comics is that they are way more popular than other comics that are way more inventive and interesting.
nc'.

IMO this is the problem with comics in general, when people say they want to read comics they think that means reading superhero's, and to be honest at first glance that whole genre is incredibly unapealing due to both continuity and that they all look silly (oh come on, admit it), thats why theres less people reading american comics then there really should be

because comics are not a medium but a genre

 

[Owen Robertson]

Ok so I have been reading superhero comics for about 2 years now and I am constantly put off and trying to figure out a way to read them properly. A few days ago the problem with them hit me. The reason so many people get put off of comics is the fact that DC and Marvel can't decide whether there is a constant story line or not. Sure officially there is a timeline and everything is supposed to fit into it but really none of the books are labeled correctly especially the graphic novels, which are constantly switching authors and artists. The continuity is a huge giant mess of confusion.

It is to the point it puts off hoards of potential readers. I don't think anybody would care if each story stood on its own or if it was all connected but the issues is DC and Marvel keep trying to do both at the same time, rather than choosing one or the other. If they are going to go the continuous story line approach they need to take some tips from manga where you simply get book one and then book two and so forth, if not they need to stop pretending it is all connected and drop all pretense of a coherent back story and just have each story stand on its own.

Yeah. Go watch (or I guess, listen to) MovieBob do this better than you in the Continanity videos. Continuity IS the story now. Nobody cares what happened with Spidey and Doc Oc, they just care that it happened.

 

[Lonewolfm16]

Ok so I have been reading superhero comics for about 2 years now and I am constantly put off and trying to figure out a way to read them properly. A few days ago the problem with them hit me. The reason so many people get put off of comics is the fact that DC and Marvel can't decide whether there is a constant story line or not. Sure officially there is a timeline and everything is supposed to fit into it but really none of the books are labeled correctly especially the graphic novels, which are constantly switching authors and artists. The continuity is a huge giant mess of confusion.

It is to the point it puts off hoards of potential readers. I don't think anybody would care if each story stood on its own or if it was all connected but the issues is DC and Marvel keep trying to do both at the same time, rather than choosing one or the other. If they are going to go the continuous story line approach they need to take some tips from manga where you simply get book one and then book two and so forth, if not they need to stop pretending it is all connected and drop all pretense of a coherent back story and just have each story stand on its own.

Not usually a comics fan but I started reading the Sandman as I got it for Christmas, since I really love Niel Gaiman and thought the concept of the endless sounded alot like American Gods. So far he has met John Constantine, Cain and Abel, ventured to Hell, and spoken about the Justice League. I just wish the story could have its own seperate universe, having a continuity with so many diffrent storylines just feels really really tangled. I am alright with the idea of continuity, I just wish you could have mabey 5 or so storylines sharing space rather than 28,000 or so.

 

[Sixcess]

Not usually a comics fan but I started reading the Sandman as I got it for Christmas, since I really love Niel Gaiman and thought the concept of the endless sounded alot like American Gods. So far he has met John Constantine, Cain and Abel, ventured to Hell, and spoken about the Justice League. I just wish the story could have its own seperate universe, having a continuity with so many diffrent storylines just feels really really tangled.

The first 8 or so issues of The Sandman probably have more references to the wider DC Universe than the rest of the series put together. Once it established itself as a brilliant comic in its own right the cameos were few, far between, and very well handled.

Continuity isn't the problem. Publisher greed and bad writing is the problem. Just because a character has decades of history doesn't mean you have to reference all of it in every single issue. It's bad writing and I blame it on the fact that way too many comic book writers now are fanboy obsessives who want to pick over every miniscule detail of history regardless of whether or not it matters.

And publisher greed. Crisis crossovers started in the mid-80s but since the 90s they've been epidemic - huge sprawling stories spread across dozens of titles for no real reason other than to sell the entire output to completists. I don't even attempt to read company-wide crossovers anymore.

 

[TehCookie]

Wait, you noticed this after you've been reading them? I noticed it when I wanted to try reading a few and had no clue where to start. Though that's probably a good thing since I wanted to start reading American comics since I love manga, but I doubt I could find something I like among American comics.

 

[Nieroshai]

Wait, you noticed this after you've been reading them? I noticed it when I wanted to try reading a few and had no clue where to start. Though that's probably a good thing since I wanted to start reading American comics since I love manga, but I doubt I could find something I like among American comics.

Try a storyline done start to finish by the same author. The biggest problem, I think, is letting too many authors screw around in one universe. Infinite monkeys on infinite typewriters may eventually render the complete works of Shakespeare, but modern comics are the smelly, gooey byproduct.

 

[TehCookie]

Wait, you noticed this after you've been reading them? I noticed it when I wanted to try reading a few and had no clue where to start. Though that's probably a good thing since I wanted to start reading American comics since I love manga, but I doubt I could find something I like among American comics.

Try a storyline done start to finish by the same author. The biggest problem, I think, is letting too many authors screw around in one universe. Infinite monkeys on infinite typewriters may eventually render the complete works of Shakespeare, but modern comics are the smelly, gooey byproduct.

The thing is I don't know any. All the big name comics are a mess, and as someone who's not familiar with the medium I'm not going to find that hidden gem. I looked through a bookstore and I couldn't even find a first issue of anything (but Barnes and Nobels hates comics. [small][sub]I miss Borders.[/sub][/small]

 

[Queen Michael]

Not usually a comics fan but I started reading the Sandman as I got it for Christmas, since I really love Niel Gaiman and thought the concept of the endless sounded alot like American Gods. So far he has met John Constantine, Cain and Abel, ventured to Hell, and spoken about the Justice League. I just wish the story could have its own seperate universe, having a continuity with so many diffrent storylines just feels really really tangled. I am alright with the idea of continuity, I just wish you could have mabey 5 or so storylines sharing space rather than 28,000 or so.

Let me, as a Sandman reader and a Swamp Thing reader, assure you that there are even more references that you're just not getting, to Swamp Thing for instance. So yeah, it's reference overdosed to start with, but believe me, it gets better. Not only better written (although it's good to start with) but also more its own universe.

 

[Queen Michael]

Wait, you noticed this after you've been reading them? I noticed it when I wanted to try reading a few and had no clue where to start. Though that's probably a good thing since I wanted to start reading American comics since I love manga, but I doubt I could find something I like among American comics.

When you say "American comics," do you mean "superhero comics" or just American comics in general? Because if it's the latter, you should just chekc out Preacher or Transmetropolitan, or Chew. Good all of them, and there's a clearly marked book one.

 

[Vault101]

Wait, you noticed this after you've been reading them? I noticed it when I wanted to try reading a few and had no clue where to start. Though that's probably a good thing since I wanted to start reading American comics since I love manga, but I doubt I could find something I like among American comics.

theres plenty to like....even with superheros

 

[Maze1125]

So the last issue of Amazing Spiderman will be issue 700 but the story won't actually be ending, the story will continue with issue 1 of the Superior Spiderman. So if Superior Spiderman is number 1 than that logically means that it should in fact be the start of the story with no knowledge of Spiderman needed to start but it won't be the start of the story which is incredibly misleading and really improperly labeled since it isn't really the first issue of the story it is actually the 701st. This same logic could be applied to just about all the DC's New 52 line minus a handful of titles.

Ummm another example I could use was something that came up just a few days ago when I was lending my girlfriend a few graphic novels. The problem was that the series was 4 novels long but none of them had a number on them or any indication of which came first or last or even if they were even associated at all since the base title alone in comics doesn't even guarantee that. In the end we had to start reading them at random just to figure out the order and in the end after she had read them all it turned out we missed the first one and that was why huge chunks of the story were missing for her.

"I'm trying to read Lord of the Rings, but I can't work out the order! I read the Two Towers and the Return of the King but it turned out there was one at the start that I missed and so I was missing huge chunks of the story! And don't get me started on the Narnia or Discworld series!
Why can't authors just keep the titles the same and put numbers after them so it's easy to work out?!?"

If you want to know the order of a story, look it up on Wikipedia, or another site and if a comic restarts as number 1, they're probably trying to tell you that you can start reading there without any real loss to the story. Let's face it, it's nearly impossible to start at the very beginning any more, there's just too many.

 

[viranimus]

improperly labeled since it isn't really the first issue of the story it is actually the 701st.

Except in this specific example it is in fact sort of logical. Given Peter Parkers death as well as Doc Oc taking over the spiderman body it is also counter intuitive to label it as 701, when it is in fact the first story of Doc Oc as spiderman.

So by switching from Amazing to Superior it is telling you it is a switch of primary story arc and in turn a fundamental change.

 

[aba1]

improperly labeled since it isn't really the first issue of the story it is actually the 701st.

Except in this specific example it is in fact sort of logical. Given Peter Parkers death as well as Doc Oc taking over the spiderman body it is also counter intuitive to label it as 701, when it is in fact the first story of Doc Oc as spiderman.

So by switching from Amazing to Superior it is telling you it is a switch of primary story arc and in turn a fundamental change.

Just because they are following a different character doesn't make it a different story. By that logic in Gants when the main character dies they should abruptly change the title or in Metal Gear Solid 2 they should have called it something completely different hell if we stretch it even a little we should have 6 different friends shows for each character depending on who we are following. You shouldn't change the title of the book every time you follow someone different. I mean I would be more inclined to side with you if there was not already like 7 different types of spiderman books as it is because if only amazing existed than at least there would still be only one and it wouldn't be too confusing.

Besides when you say something is the last it says the story is over, clean cut, done, finished. If it isn't you really shouldn't be labeling it as the last since it really isn't.