So I just figured out I'm a Zionist. (Mass Effect 2)

[pppppppppppppppppp]

I was playing Tali's loyalty mission in Mass Effect 2 today, and in the mission you decide if the Quarians should fight to get their home back from the Geth. I said that they deserved to visit their ancestors land and the war was worth it.

Then I totally realized the Quarians were in the same position as Jewish people before they got Israel back. They both were kicked out of their home generations ago, they both spent a great deal of time moving from place to place, they both face persecution from intolerant people, they both need a special environmental suit to prevent contamin-whoops, never mind, I'll stop there.

Anyway, I realized the same thoughts I had on the Quarians applied to Jewish people; that they deserve to visit the sacred home of their ancestors.

Has anyone had a similar epiphany while playing a game? (also, no discussions of the political situation in the Middle East plz)

 

[fnlrpa]

But didn't the quarians start the war?

OT: Not off the top of my head. Need to think

 

[Ghengis John]

I was playing Tali's loyalty mission in Mass Effect 2 today, and in the mission you decide if the Quarians should fight to get their home back from the Geth. I said that they deserved to visit their ancestors land and the war was worth it.

Then I totally realized the Quarians were in the same position as Jewish people before they got Israel back. They both were kicked out of their home generations ago, they both spent a great deal of time moving from place to place, they both face persecution from intolerant people, they both need a special environmental suit to prevent contamin-whoops, never mind, I'll stop there.

Anyway, I realized the same thoughts I had on the Quarians applied to Jewish people; that they deserve to visit the sacred home of their ancestors.

Has anyone had a similar epiphany while playing a game? (also, no discussions of the political situation in the Middle East plz)

I've used this parallel myself before in describing what it is about Tali that irks me so, because just like many Jewish people in regards to Isreal she can not see any wrong doing in her own people's actions towards the geth (ie Palestinians).

 

[Jadak]

But didn't the quarians start the war?

OT: Not off the top of my head. Need to think

Indeed they did, they got scared of their robot slaves and tried to wipe them out based on that fear. End result was nearly getting wiped out themselves.

 

[fnlrpa]

Is that what sort of happened to the Isrealites(just wondering)?

 

[Biodeamon]

I'm actually a nice person....maxed out my paragon actions by the end of Mass effect 2(however half of that was accumalatecd from ME1)
I would have thought i would be more merciless. Oh, well leaves less mercy for my enemies.

 

[pppppppppppppppppp]

Is that what sort of happened to the Isrealites(just wondering)?

Not really. If I can remember from World history, Israel has been under the rule of everyone from the Romans to the Greeks, but before WWI, it was ruled by the Muslim Ottoman Empire.

In reality, the analogy doesn't quite work because the Muslims who want Palestine back weren't the ones who took from the Israelites, but then again, Muslims =/= robots so the analogy never really worked.

 

[fnlrpa]

Is that what sort of happened to the Isrealites(just wondering)?

Not really. If I can remember from World history, Israel has been under the rule of everyone from the Romans to the Greeks, but before WWI, it was ruled by the Muslim Ottoman Empire.

In reality, the analogy doesn't quite work because the Muslims who want Palestine back weren't the ones who took from the Jewish ancestors, but then again, Muslims =/= robots so the analogy never really worked.

cool sort of knew about the isrealites but wasn't sure

 

[Broken Blade]

If that's true, it's telling that every time I had the chance, I tried to make peace between the Quarians and the Geth. Both sides made mistakes, but that doesn't justify xenocide.

Of course, like all analogies, it doesn't hold up if you push it too far.

 

[Dr Snakeman]

If that's true, it's telling that every time I had the chance, I tried to make peace between the Quarians and the Geth. Both sides made mistakes, but that doesn't justify xenocide.

Hey, me too! Hooray for cooperation!

But yeah, I'm pretty sure that the similarities between quarians and Jews were intentional.

 

[MetroidNut]

Personally, though it's quite a shame that the quarians are suffering for the mistakes of their ancestors, I feel for the geth - they only fought to defend themselves, and don't even hold a grudge against the quarians. That said, in Mass Effect 3, I'll do whatever it takes to bring about peace between the two factions. I adore both, and I would hate to see them wipe each other out in a war I view as pointless.

Which, coincidentally, sums up my thoughts on Israel and Palestine pretty well. The last bit, I mean. The first part not so much.

More on-topic, Mass Effect 2 helped me discover a rather different aspect of my beliefs - I value freedom above all else, including life. The decision to kill or reprogram geth rebels really got me thinking about the matter.

 

[RevRaptor]

Except there is no historical record of a mass exodus of Jewish slaves out of Egypt.

No Egyptian record contains a single reference to anything in Exodus; and by the time there were enough Jews living in Egypt to constitute an Exodus, the time of the pyramids was long over. And Pharaoh Ramesses can be let off the hook as well, no documentary or archaeological evidence links any of the Pharaohs bearing this name with plagues or Jewish slaves or edicts to kill babies. Indeed, the earliest, Ramesses I, wasn't even born until more than a thousand years after the Great Pyramid was completed. His grandson, the great Ramesses II, lived even later.

Also the builders of the pyramids were well paid Egyptian workers who were well looked after they proved that beyond a shadow of a doubt.

I like this guy's article on the matter he approaches it in a very respectful way.
http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4191

Not to bang on about how exodus is wrong but for me there really is no parallel between the Quarians who were driven from their homeworld in a vicious war and the Jews who just go along with what is written in their book of made up stories.

Also before you accuse me of being anti religion I'm not, I'm pro historical documents
If it's happened it's usually documented some where, the ancient world was very into record keeping.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

Just a quick question - does Tali get better in ME2 (like I've heard Garrus does) or is she always this annoying?

She is a lot like she is in 1--except now she is crushing on you big time. So it depends on if you find the prospect of her turning into a flustered schoolgirl around you an improvement.
EDIT: Oh, and they make her seem more genocidal.

 

[NickCaligo42]

WOW. You mean to tell me that a Bioware game has transparent social and historical allegory? What are the odds!

They've been doing this preachy crap since the 90's, man. Aside from blatantly recycling major characters and plot threads, they like to recycle this theme of social acceptance. It's a noble goal, to be sure... but a little too noble. I'm instantly mistrustful of major studios that try to shoehorn this kind of junk into their games. I'm sorry if I'm coming off as a cynical jackass, but I don't feel it's the place of the tubby, privileged, mightier-than-thou white guys who run these companies to tell us how to live our lives or think about major social problems when they probably haven't experienced prejudice or hardship a single day in theirs. The sentiment they try to get across in these games is really ham-fisted and comes off to me about as genuine as the likes of Fern Gully.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

Just a quick question - does Tali get better in ME2 (like I've heard Garrus does) or is she always this annoying?

She is a lot like she is in 1--except now she is crushing on you big time. So it depends on if you find the prospect of her turning into a flustered schoolgirl around you an improvement.
EDIT: Oh, and they make her seem more genocidal.

...

Explain to me why anybody likes her again?

She is the nerdy tech girl. So I guess a lot of gamers connect with her and like the fact that she is already head-over-heels for Shepard. That is all I got.

 

[pspman45]

I think that the Quarians deserved to lose their home world. They attacked a group of Robots who were gaining sentience, because they were afraid. How did they know that the Geth would attack them? how did they know that the two races could not co-exist? They did not. I believe that the Quarians attacked them to secure their dominance over the Geth, not to protect themselves. They were afraid that their working class would rise up, knowing that they were being mistreated.
The Geth deserve the Perseus Veil, they earned it. If the Quarians didn't want to lose their home, then they should not have fired the first shot.

About the politics concerning the REAL world, The Israelis treated the Palestinians like shit. the make no effort to Co-exist, and made themselves out as the dominant people. Now that the odds are no longer in their favor, people feel the need to help them, even though they brought it upon themselves.

 

[starslasher]

Is that what sort of happened to the Isrealites(just wondering)?

Not really. If I can remember from World history, Israel has been under the rule of everyone from the Romans to the Greeks, but before WWI, it was ruled by the Muslim Ottoman Empire.

In reality, the analogy doesn't quite work because the Muslims who want Palestine back weren't the ones who took from the Israelites, but then again, Muslims =/= robots so the analogy never really worked.

Beat me to it. There are some parallels but the comparison wasn't that strong. I mean, it's an interesting comparison, but as you said, The Romans were the ones to exiled the Jews, but it isn't the Romans that were inhabiting the land when the Zionist project to claim Israel.

Except there is no historical record of a mass exodus of Jewish slaves out of Egypt.

No Egyptian record contains a single reference to anything in Exodus; and by the time there were enough Jews living in Egypt to constitute an Exodus, the time of the pyramids was long over. And Pharaoh Ramesses can be let off the hook as well, no documentary or archaeological evidence links any of the Pharaohs bearing this name with plagues or Jewish slaves or edicts to kill babies. Indeed, the earliest, Ramesses I, wasn't even born until more than a thousand years after the Great Pyramid was completed. His grandson, the great Ramesses II, lived even later.

Also the builders of the pyramids were well paid Egyptian workers who were well looked after they proved that beyond a shadow of a doubt.

I like this guy's article on the matter he approaches it in a very respectful way.
http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4191

Not to bang on about how exodus is wrong but for me there really is no parallel between the Quarians who were driven from their homeworld in a vicious war and the Jews who just go along with what is written in their book of made up stories.

Also before you accuse me of being anti religion I'm not, I'm pro historical documents
If it's happened it's usually documented some where, the ancient world was very into record keeping.

Erm, this was about the exile from Israel by the Romans, not the exodus from Egypt But related to this, I heard about a book that claimed that there was no documented evidence that the Romans exiled the Jews. Supposedly it was big.

 

[Prophetic Heresy]

WOW. You mean to tell me that a Bioware game has transparent social and historical allegory? What are the odds!

They've been doing this preachy crap since the 90's, man. Aside from blatantly recycling major characters and plot threads, they like to recycle this theme of social acceptance. It's a noble goal, to be sure... but a little too noble. I'm instantly mistrustful of major studios that try to shoehorn this kind of junk into their games. I'm sorry if I'm coming off as a cynical jackass, but I don't feel it's the place of the tubby, privileged, mightier-than-thou white guys who run these companies to tell us how to live our lives or think about major social problems when they probably haven't experienced prejudice or hardship a single day in theirs. The sentiment they try to get across in these games is really ham-fisted and comes off to me about as genuine as the likes of Fern Gully.

Why would they need to have experienced prejudice themselves in order to speak out against it?