So i just watched Batman V Superman...

[DrownedAmmet]

Frank Miller "Dark Knight Returns"Batman.

And therein is the root of the problem. We need to be ashamed of all that Frank Miller and Dark Age comics crap, and retroactively bury them.
It and Death of Superman should not have been adapted.
The lesson to be learned from Marvel's cinematic universe is "Be yourself".
The lesson to be learned from DC's cinematic universe is "Don't be that asshole you were in the late '80s and early '90s, nobody likes that guy."

The weird thing is I liked it even though I disagreed with the "politics" of it. It's kind of a deconstruction of Batman, even the most progressive Batman laughs in the face of due process and thinks the best way to stop crime is to just beat the shit out of criminals so everybody is "scared straight"

 

[cathou]

Could have made two better movies out of it.

i was thinking exactly that. do a doomsday/superman movie, with superman dying at the end. then do a batman movie that end at the same time than superman, and keep the funeral scene. then procede to JL.

 

[IOwnTheSpire]

If they are going with the Jason Todd being the Joker now

I don't know where that theory came from, but I can't imagine how anyone could think it's true.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

I literally just walked in to the house from watching the movie, and I can't do anything but disagree with you. The movie was a colossal train wreck that bungled every conceivable thing it could get it's hands on - The script, the acting, the directing, the plot, the fighting, the concept, the subject matter, just everything. The only redeeming thing in the film was Affleck, who heroically tried his best to salvage what is the worst movie I've seen in theaters in half a decade.

And I say that as someone who really liked Man of Steel.

I'll get more in depth once the [SPOILERS INSIDE] thread gets started, but just... God, it was terrible. I'm going to watch JL: Gods and Monsters, and then watch the entirety of the Justice League series, just to wash this movie out. So bad my entire night may have been ruined by it.

I really like Man of Steel as well and I'm a huge fan of Snyder's movies. But this "thing" is so bad. There's so many scenes that don't even make sense and there's no point to them whatsoever. There's no point to the Africa stuff, the events of the end of Man of Steel (shown in the movie) justify the world (and Batman) needing to have a conversation about Superman. The stuff at the Capitol building is pointless too, it accomplishes nothing whatsoever. The whole redoing, yet again, of the Batman's parents' deaths is literally only there so the audience knows the name of his mother. Do you know what would've been useful in place of all these useless scenes is a freaking telling of why Batman is the way he is now because he's not at all the Batman people know yet the movie acts like everyone is up to speed with this Batman. The dialog is just so bad, every line is written as if it's something really deep but if you think about it for a second, it's just meaningless gibberish (the opening lines are some bullshit like "everything that falls has fallen"). Just about every Lex Luther line is just that, he couldn't even complete a sentence when giving a speech at his own party. And Bruce Wayne using the bathroom excuse, just so bad. During the fight, Batman uses smoke to ninja away from Superman and it actually works for some reason when there's no reason why Superman can't see through normal smoke. And that's not even half of what's wrong with this "thing". I thought for a split second maybe the 3 hour cut would fill in all the gaps but there's already so many unneeded and useless scenes that more runtime would only make it worse.

 

[Darth Rosenberg]

Heck, the Civil War comic is one of Marvel's most reviled works but it that's not stopping them from adapting it into one of their biggest movies to date.

Sure it has the same name, but that's about it, so I think calling it an adaptation of a "reviled work" is a bit much. From the looks of it, it also seems Marvel Studios are likely making that wonky event arc into something far better. Of course it'll really just be far worse, 'cause Cloak & Dagger aren't in it... and literally everyone knows they utterly rock.

As for BvS? I've gone full spoilers, and every single source I've read or watched has convinced me I'll either loathe or just laugh at this film. I really am curious to see how much of a nasty, brain-dead broody wreck it is, but if I did I'd just be tossing more money Warner's way, and they wouldn't learn anything.

...I mean, they won't anyway, because there seem to be enough people in the world rushing to see it. Sooooo, yeah. Roll on Civil War: Not Civil War, plus Doctor Strange (definitely my most anticipated comicbook film this year) and maybe/hopefully Suicide Squad will be good (fingers crossed for Deadshot buying it, as Will Smith's a terrible pick for any character that isn't supposed to just be Will Smith).

BvS will be a rental whenever it comes out. Apparently Affleck's great as this rather dopey, very angry/violent Batman, and when Wonder Woman shows up she actually behaves like a proper [super]hero. So I am looking forward to Bats' and Wonder Woman's solo films, particularly as Snyder's seemingly not 'directing' either.

 

[Something Amyss]

Seriously, it's cool that you like it and all, but I have trouble buying into "best superhero movie since The Dark Knight."

It's good to hear you liked it but I dunno I've heard mixed reviews.

Honestly it seems like they've messed it up big time. I think they should just give the rights back to Marvel and let them have control of it like they should've at the start. They know what they're doing and they'll probably be able to make better movies.

Yeah, I really want to see the Justice League in the MCU where they belong.

 

[Something Amyss]

I don't know where that theory came from, but I can't imagine how anyone could think it's true.

It'd be an incredibly bad decision.

So I think it's totally in character.

But seriously, I don't expect the mainstream audience to know who Jason Todd is, and so I think it'd be a really bad idea. I think people just don't want Leto to be THE Joker.

 

[DefunctTheory]

If they are going with the Jason Todd being the Joker now

I don't know where that theory came from, but I can't imagine how anyone could think it's true.

It fits the film. It really does.

That's a testament to how bad it is, really, that Robin being the Joker would fit right the fuck in.

As for BvS? I've gone full spoilers, and every single source I've read or watched has convinced me I'll either loathe or just laugh at this film. I really am curious to see how much of a nasty, brain-dead broody wreck it is, but if I did I'd just be tossing more money Warner's way, and they wouldn't learn anything.

It isn't 'haha' bad. It's so bad it goes past really bad, past funny bad, past so bad it will make you angry, back around the dial to good, then all the way through the bad scale to land on 'Day Ruiner' bad. It's the kind of movie that needs a new rating, not based on maturity, but on how dangerous it is for people with high blood pressure or pre-existing heart conditions.

 

[Bob_McMillan]

If they are going with the Jason Todd being the Joker now

I don't know where that theory came from, but I can't imagine how anyone could think it's true.

It fits the film. It really does.

That's a testament to how bad it is, really, that Robin being the Joker would fit right the fuck in.

As for BvS? I've gone full spoilers, and every single source I've read or watched has convinced me I'll either loathe or just laugh at this film. I really am curious to see how much of a nasty, brain-dead broody wreck it is, but if I did I'd just be tossing more money Warner's way, and they wouldn't learn anything.

It isn't 'haha' bad. It's so bad it goes past really bad, past funny bad, past so bad it will make you angry, back around the dial to good, then all the way through the bad scale to land on 'Day Ruiner' bad. It's the kind of movie that needs a new rating, not based on maturity, but on how dangerous it is for people with high blood pressure or pre-existing heart conditions.

I spent yesterday moping about how much potential was wasted and how much I now hate Snyder and Goyer. Haven't felt the same since they killed Han.

The only reason I would watch this again is if I could watch on my computer and turn the brightness up. Holy shit, it was literally darker than the Marvel movies, in the Doomsday fight I had no idea what was going on.

 

[DefunctTheory]

Spoiler

If they are going with the Jason Todd being the Joker now

I don't know where that theory came from, but I can't imagine how anyone could think it's true.

It fits the film. It really does.

That's a testament to how bad it is, really, that Robin being the Joker would fit right the fuck in.

As for BvS? I've gone full spoilers, and every single source I've read or watched has convinced me I'll either loathe or just laugh at this film. I really am curious to see how much of a nasty, brain-dead broody wreck it is, but if I did I'd just be tossing more money Warner's way, and they wouldn't learn anything.

It isn't 'haha' bad. It's so bad it goes past really bad, past funny bad, past so bad it will make you angry, back around the dial to good, then all the way through the bad scale to land on 'Day Ruiner' bad. It's the kind of movie that needs a new rating, not based on maturity, but on how dangerous it is for people with high blood pressure or pre-existing heart conditions.

I spent yesterday moping about how much potential was wasted and how much I now hate Snyder and Goyer. Haven't felt the same since they killed Han.

The only reason I would watch this again is if I could watch on my computer and turn the brightness up. Holy shit, it was literally darker than the Marvel movies, in the Doomsday fight I had no idea what was going on.

Holy crap, was it dark. You have to squint to see half of the crap going on, and the only reason any of the hits on Doomsday are visible is because every time they strike him, he lights up like his muscles are made of glow sticks and they're cracking them.

 

[cathou]

The only reason I would watch this again is if I could watch on my computer and turn the brightness up. Holy shit, it was literally darker than the Marvel movies, in the Doomsday fight I had no idea what was going on.

not just that fight. can you describe to me the batmobile or the batwing ? a whole car chase in that movie, and i dont think we clearly see the batmobile once...

 

[mduncan50]

not just that fight. can you describe to me the batmobile or the batwing ? a whole car chase in that movie, and i dont think we clearly see the batmobile once...

Batmobile as perfect metaphor for this movie. It speeds with abandon along its set road, not sure where it's trying to go, just what it's chasing (Marvel). It's loud and bombastic, filled with all the latest technology, while it cuts an iconic silhouette, all of the details are a blur.

 

[Zhukov]

If they are going with the Jason Todd being the Joker now

I don't know where that theory came from, but I can't imagine how anyone could think it's true.

We're talking about a universe in which Jimmy Olsen is an undercover CIA operative.

Anything is possible!

 

[JimB]

We're talking about a universe in which Jimmy Olsen is an undercover CIA operative.

Was. He was that.

Now he's not much of anything.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

Well if you love the movie, more power to you. No one can tell you otherwise ....

However for me, the movie is a huge miss on what it 'could' had been. Granted, I don't think it's the worst superhero movie ever obviously and it does get some things spot on ... but for a huge movie like Batman vs Superman, you'd think they would not try to cram so many sub plots into a 2 1/2 hour movie. They tried to avoid the Marvel treatment but all that happened was a rushed production with a lot of loop holes. The ending is outright bad and I won't spoil it for anyone, but let's just say Warner Brothers really screwed themselves by doing it too soon. Leaves no impact on the audience nor the inside characters so ... take what you will.

Well I watched the movie just now and trust me when I say this I am not reviewing this as a "biased DC Fanboy" I am saying this as a rational person.


I knew the movie is going to be flawed and yes it was.

The BIGGEST, repeat, BIGGEST problem was the structure and sequencing (As in when one scene cuts to a completely unrelated scene) and there were scenes that could have been cut.

The most common thing I hear is that the first half of the movie was the good, but the second half was the terrible. Its litirally the opposite for me because the first half is where the sequencing and structure was at its worse. We went from scenes with Batman dreaming he was attacked by a Bat monster coming out of his Father's Grave to Superman at the Daily Planet trying to get his article on the Batman out, to back to Batman after just having woken up from that dream I mentioned.

At least the second half is where things were at least began being more structured and linear. And imo where the story ramps up because It did got better when we finally got to the Batman fighting Superman part and the Trio against Doomsday.

At first I thought this film has when through multiple rewrites because I really think at first this movie was just going to be just a reimagining of Dark Knight Returns. But then again I question that because the very first reveal trailer did show sequences that happened during and after the Doomsday fight so mabye Doomsday was always planned write from the get go?

And one of the weaker plot elements was the whole getting Superman on a trial especially since they continued with this guy who lost his legs from building rubble who blames Superman for this.

Lex Luthor (who I now am divided whether he is Lex Luthor or the son Alex Luthor) is obviously a dumb character. But I expected him to be worse like I thought he was going to be like a loud mouth annoying whiner with juvinile jokes.

I did not think the Wonder Woman actress was not that bad, because I am surprised that she had at least a decent amount of screen time. I really thought she was just going to be there in the last minute. (And her fight scenes were awesome)

I can say the same to Lois Lane, I thought she was just be a last minute character but she to had a lot of screen time. I did not feel she was shoehorned in the story.

The other criticsms I personally don't mind or care about is the whole "Batman and Superman killing"

Superman only killed 2 people here, this "Terrorist" guy at his first intro (even though they don't really show his death) and Doomsday Zod. Who I am convinced the really person causing all the explosions and destruction porn that these movies are criticized is Zod. Zod is an asshole, Zod is the reason shit gets blown up.

In the end I just thought the movie was Average and Meh at the first half until we get to more structured and coherent second. (I say the second begins after the "Trial" of Superman scene)

I said to myself I am just watching this movie for the action and it succeed on that front. Like the Roger Ebert website I am giving this a 2 and a half stars. Its a movie better watched on DVD or on TV channels.

I am convinced though that the problem with this movie is not Zack Snyder, Its all David Goyer, and Zack was not the Editor aswell, just some guy named David Brenner so all Zack Snyder is is the director.

Also in my screening when the movie was over people in my theater clapped.

Oh well Now I just wait for the Justice League, Wonder Woman, Suicide Squad and the R Rated Extended Director's Cut of this movie.

 

[Ragsnstitches]

I watched it today and I've got issues with it. But I didn't hate it. I'm not angry with it, I'm just genuinely saddened by it. Not because I had high expectations, but because somewhere in there I saw a good movie that got crushed under cynical, guys in suits motivated decisions.

Spoiler

They tried WAY too hard to turn the DC line up into an Avengers competitor. Where Marvel gave the idea room to breath and do some preliminary world building, this just blasts us with not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5 but 6 heroes, of which 3 of them are "featured" in this movie as actual characters and one of them BARELY counts in that regard. The other 3 are literally given a full 3 minute montage that feels like such a contrivance, like they did it after the rest of the movie was filmed just to give lip service to a "greater" universe of characters.

2 characters are motivated by prophetic visions. At one point it seemed like they were being clever by making it seem like The Flash was doing his time travel thing to warn bats, but then he just wakes up? But that was literally JUST after he had a dream of the world ending. So litereally we go from bats dreaming about a great evil, to waking up and seeing the Flash warn him about something, then to have him WAKE UP AGAIN... like, how are we meant to interpret that?

At first it seemed like they were actually going to do something constructive by making Bats initial motivation be the destruction of metropolis. They didn't even need to tie in "death of people he knew" to get this going, but I can accept that they did. It seemed like they were taking the criticism from Man of Steel and actually doing something constructive and interesting with it. But then they did the aforementioned dream sequence which feels like such overkill. It stands out like a sore thumb... it so blatantly going "Watch More Movies to see what it all means!"

Then we see Batman murdering people indiscriminately. Let's not beat around the bush here, this isn't collateral damage stuff, he straight up murders people. With guns. No not the dream sequence guns, I let that pass, the dream is bad enough... but with high powered machine guns on his batmobile. At one point he hooks one car (with people inside) to the batmobile and drags it around at speed, having it smash off walls and shit, only to jerk the car in such a way to turn it into a freaking flail to smash another car with people in it. These weren't even definitely villains yet to bats, they were just security protecting a shard of kryptonite... people just doing a job. Bats had no intel to suspect they were bad guys, at least not that we were privy to.

There is no ambiguity here. People died. Sometimes brutally. I get it, we're meant to be getting a hardened and battleworn bats... one who's morality is starting to become questioned. But this isn't really challenged. Bat's doesn't grow from this. There is some lip service along the lines of "you've changed" by Alfred, but it leads nowhere. He does a lot of bad shit, and then at the end, with literally zero effort, they suddenly have him grow a conscience again so as to not kill supes or "brand" Lex.

Lex Luthor is fucking dumb. Sorry, no ifs and/or buts... the character is schizophrenic. This isn't even an issue with him being a poor Lex, but that his role in the story isn't as an antagonist but solely as a plot device. His entire purpose is in service to the plot. How is this different to any character I hear you say? Well most of the time characters have character. Lex is what he needs to be to transition one scene to the next and justify the next action set piece. People have said he's more like The Joker then his comic book self and I can totally see why.

We get something like 3 possibe motivations from lex, with the last one presumably being the true motivation, which is that he saw an Alien warlord come and destroy everything. We never see that. We see bats prophecy, not not Lex's. We have no idea what exactly it is that made him snap. He's just crazy from the get go. But it still doesn't make sense, because if that's the case everything he did seemed to be made to hasten it, not prevent it. In other words... WE STILL DON'T KNOW WHAT MOTIVATED HIM. He's just another "engine of chaos" like the Joker, but this time thematically inappropriate.

And I could go on, but I'm tired. A part of me wants to just end it here. Wrap it up because nobody cares about this on the production team. But it wouldn't be true. There is some genuine heart under all that shit and it sickens me it's happening to these iconic characters.

If it happens, I'm going to give Ben Affleck own Batman movie a shot because maybe with a little more focus they might do something good. Supes is doomed, he had his chance. I've no faith in Wonder Woman after seeing the actors performance. Maybe Aquaman, but that's more because of Jason Momoa... I just liked the guy.

Other then that, I don't see a viable future in the DC Movie Universe.

 

[IOwnTheSpire]

Spoiler

Then we see Batman murdering people indiscriminately. Let's not beat around the bush here, this isn't collateral damage stuff, he straight up murders people. With guns. No not the dream sequence guns, I let that pass, the dream is bad enough... but with high powered machine guns on his batmobile. At one point he hooks one car (with people inside) to the batmobile and drags it around at speed, having it smash off walls and shit, only to jerk the car in such a way to turn it into a freaking flail to smash another car with people in it. These weren't even definitely villains yet to bats, they were just security protecting a shard of kryptonite... people just doing a job. Bats had no intel to suspect they were bad guys, at least not that we were privy to.

There is no ambiguity here. People died. Sometimes brutally. I get it, we're meant to be getting a hardened and battleworn bats... one who's morality is starting to become questioned. But this isn't really challenged. Bat's doesn't grow from this. There is some lip service along the lines of "you've changed" by Alfred, but it leads nowhere. He does a lot of bad shit, and then at the end, with literally zero effort, they suddenly have him grow a conscience again so as to not kill supes or "brand" Lex.

Spoiler

One review I watched said that there should have at least been a scene or two explaining why he's so brutal. I think a hardened Bats killing people because of events that happened in his past is fine, but it just needs to be handled properly.