So it seems Hotline Miami 2 has rape in it...

[Something Amyss]

I'm at the stage where I WELCOME any game with rape in it, because clearly a bit of desensitisation wouldn't go amiss!

Oh, logic, please save me.

Look, rape isn't actually new in video games, actual or implied. I know that there are a bunch of people on here who beat the war drum because there were a couple of "controversies," most of which were thumped up by the people complaining about them, ironically. The reality is that few of these get made a big deal out of, so saying we need more exposure for desensitisiation is a flat-out false premise to begin with.

Jesus, this forum pisses and moans about the way Fox News portrays vidya gaemz, then goes and does the same thing by sensationalising cockamamie (pardon the extreme language) "controversies" and going on the offensive with no grounds. I get why some people do it: if they actually waited around for a real controversy to develop, they might die of boredom. But why are the rest of y'all so damn on board? The last thing we need is a couple hundred Glenn Becks screaming every time they discover something that can anger the base. And yet, while we dismiss the Mass Effect "sex" controversy, we seem to be doing the same. Damn. Thing. Every. Day.

From the looks of things, nobody gave a damn about the Hotline Miami 2 bit. Left alone, it probably will do absolutely nothing.

 

[Stryc9]

snip

Watch the original video posted and start at 0:40. It is anything but implied.

EDIT: But Hotline Miami is a game where you already do some of the most reprehensible things possible. This doesn't exactly seem that far off. Though it still makes me uncomfortable.

Unless Devolver took it down that is the original video. I watched that on Devolver's own channel.

 

[Happiness Assassin]

snip

Watch the original video posted and start at 0:40. It is anything but implied.

EDIT: But Hotline Miami is a game where you already do some of the most reprehensible things possible. This doesn't exactly seem that far off. Though it still makes me uncomfortable.

Unless Devolver took it down that is the original video. I watched that on Devolver's own channel.

I meant the video posted in the OP, not the one you quoted. The one that video on this site is attached to shows a fat man getting on top of the woman and pulling his pants down. I apologize for any confusion.

 

[Abomination]

Good, let's see some rape in a game. I'm sick and tired of the idea of all the horrible things I can do to an individual without anyone batting an eye. But the very idea of sticking a penis into them instead of a chainsaw is somehow leagues upon leagues worse is just the most absurd thing society has going on right now.

Either get upset at everything someone does that's horrible to someone else or don't get upset at anything. Being selective in disgust for violence is hypocritical.

 

[Stryc9]

snip

Watch the original video posted and start at 0:40. It is anything but implied.

EDIT: But Hotline Miami is a game where you already do some of the most reprehensible things possible. This doesn't exactly seem that far off. Though it still makes me uncomfortable.

Unless Devolver took it down that is the original video. I watched that on Devolver's own channel.

I meant the video posted in the OP, not the one you quoted. The one that video on this site is attached to shows a fat man getting on top of the woman and pulling his pants down. I apologize for any confusion.

Alright, now that we're on the same page, still doesn't really bother me that much. The Tomb Raider thing didn't bother me that much, most of this hyperbolic freaking out over every little politically incorrect thing in videogames doesn't really bother me that much, they're videogames, they're fake, no one is really being raped or murdered and if anyone claims that these games caused them to commit a rape or murder they were sick in the head to start with and are probably lying looking for an easy out of a longer sentence. I'll still buy the game eventually anyway because the first one is really quite fun.

 

[MeChaNiZ3D]

snip

snip

You're right of course, there are only about 2 posters I've seen who are up in arms about this. But the OP created this thread with the expectation of controversy seemingly coming from the fact that there is rape at all in a game. My comment about desensitisation was more a jab at that being the excuse people tend to give for there being a lack of controversy over something they think is offensive. But yeah, no-one really has cared.

 

[Shadowstar38]

We commit soooooooooooooooo many countless atrocities in video games. Why pray tell does rape cross the lie?

I think I mentioned this in an earlier thread but, if rape is fair game in any other medium, it's fair enough if games want to use it.

 

[knight steel]

GOOD.

I'm at the stage where I WELCOME any game with rape in it, because clearly a bit of desensitisation wouldn't go amiss!

It is, at it's core, a game about the most vicious, over-the-top violence and having the player deliver that and then reflect on it afterwards. The characters can be the most despicable people imaginable, both antagonists and protagonists. It's too early to say if the game is structured in a way that condones or encourages rape, or shows it in a positive light, but if I had to speculate I'd say the fat guy is probably not a sympathetic good character!

There is no reason that a game that has ridiculous levels of bloodshed and shows all levels of callous violence should not have rape in it.

EDIT: Oh look. It wasn't even a rape scene. Well there you go.

Good, let's see some rape in a game. I'm sick and tired of the idea of all the horrible things I can do to an individual without anyone batting an eye. But the very idea of sticking a penis into them instead of a chainsaw is somehow leagues upon leagues worse is just the most absurd thing society has going on right now.

Either get upset at everything someone does that's horrible to someone else or don't get upset at anything. Being selective in disgust for violence is hypocritical.

This a thousand times this,if I can torture and murder innocent's in a game then people shouldn't freak out when it also involves sex-the same thing applies to not being able to kill children in games like skyrim but instead making them immortal annoying brats,if I or a dragon slays an entire town the children shouldn't be exempt they are no more innocent that that poor shopkeeper that got an arrow in the face T_T.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

Meh, the first game was already horribly sexist and the second game honestly isn't really pushing new boundaries there. Like the first game, most of the media will ignore it because it's indie and thus has a lower profile than its AAA counterparts.

This I will give you.

But in the games defense... None of the characters are really well fleshed out. The freaking main character doesn't even have a name, we just call him Jacket because he wears a letterman jacket. Come to think of it, the janitors are probably the only ones in the game that are really characters. We don't know a damn thing about the russian's we are murdering either.

Hooker actually....

Spoiler

she sits on the couch. Then next level she's taking a bath. She basically starts cleaning the apartment and is implied at that point to have romantic feelings for Jacket. In the hallucination scenes, shes Don Juan (the one in the horse mask).

Any characterization she has is kinda pointless though. Another mask ends up killing her to provide motivation for Jacket to burst into a police station to kill that mask. She's a literal woman in the refridgerator trope.... though to be fair, it's not like Jacket has anymore character than her.

I never noticed that before, never really paid attention to their body types, I guess. Does that mean that the other two (the owl and rooster) were other people from the game? I also never knew she was a hooker, I just assumed she was a random victim. Where is the hooker thing implied, if you don't mind sharing? I know she pretty much becomes the protagonist's girlfriend, and a fixture at his apartment after she's rescued and all that.

On topic though, I don't disapprove, depending on the context. Rape is a real thing, it's terrible, but it happens. And it's irresponsible to shy away from it when it's presented in the media. If the thing about it being part of an in-game movie bit is true, well then I don't really have a problem with it.

Hotline Miami isn't about being politically correct.

Spoiler

The Owl is suppose to be the Russian mob boss. I think the Rooster is suppose to be Jacket.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

ot every game needs to give a balanced attention to each gender to avoid being sexist and your claim that the game shows women as weak is a lie because it actually only shows a SPECIFIC female character as weak. (Not the same thing)

When she's the the absolute most prominent character and featured in the advertising in sexual victim mode, it's pretty explicit that the game is far more likely to see women as weak rather than strong.

The game doesn't see women as anything and the same goes for men, this game makes no commentary on gender issues and should be taken as such. Art and media only comment on specific social issues if they choose to do so and bringing in concepts that are not relevant is futile, saying Hotline miami is bad because it make no attempt to represent genders equally is missing the point of the game.

Nah dude. She's a woman in a refrigerator trope. She exists just to give Jacket/player something to care about, and to be upset about when we find her

Spoiler

killed

 

[DudeistBelieve]

Oh, good, we're going to force another controversy....

After all Tomb Raider couldn't even have an enemy "Aggressively Stalk" it's female protagonist with out the whole internet blowing up.

The internet really didn't "blow up" until some dumb jerk decided to talk about how rape would be a defininng, character-building moment for Lara Croft. Essentially that the badass we all know today exists because some dude raped her in the past. The fact that she wasn't raped is irrelevant because some douchebag went and commented on how the rape would be.

If you're not just trying to stir shit, and I hope you're not, at least portray the controversies right. People try to force these comparisons so hard it's almost a rape analogy in itself.

No I am admittedly just trying to stir the pot.

All I remember from the Tomb Raider thing was a lot of people yelling "LAURAS GONNA GET RAPED" and it turned out she wasn't.

 

[JudgeGame]

Crimes are crimes and hate crimes are hate crimes.

The whole "hate crime" thing is stupid. You don't know what was in somebody's head when they committed the crime.

I know what is in society's head and that is all you need.

Well good for you, but I think you'll find most judges won't have an Omniscient insight into everyone's mind like you do.

That's why laws are written down. There is no excuse for not following the law.

 

[Hemlet]

*GASP*! Someone's going to get raped in a form of media?!

Huh. Shame for that character. Ah well, I think I'll fix a drink and go about my evening as usual.

 

[Brown_Coat117]

Oh, good, we're going to force another controversy....

After all Tomb Raider couldn't even have an enemy "Aggressively Stalk" it's female protagonist with out the whole internet blowing up.

The internet really didn't "blow up" until some dumb jerk decided to talk about how rape would be a defininng, character-building moment for Lara Croft. Essentially that the badass we all know today exists because some dude raped her in the past. The fact that she wasn't raped is irrelevant because some douchebag went and commented on how the rape would be.

If you're not just trying to stir shit, and I hope you're not, at least portray the controversies right. People try to force these comparisons so hard it's almost a rape analogy in itself.

Please don't ***** at others for not portraying the controversies right when you can't get them right your self. The "defininng, character-building moment for Lara Croft," was never about the actual assault. It was about the first time she had to take another life in order to survive.

"The fact that she wasn't raped is irrelevant" yeah it was because even if you failed the QTE you were killed not raped, so that really invalidates any point you make based on this. The internet did explode because of a knee jerk reaction to what certain people read into the scene.

All the while there was no sizable reaction to Far Cry 3, having at least one confirmed male rape to a character you save, and what would at least qualify as sexual assault to the main character, but I guess that none of that matters in any way, shape or form.

As far as this game is concerned I as always reserve my personal judgement until I see it in context. Rape is a real world issue that is dealt in every medium game should be no different.

 

[Agent_Dark]

We commit soooooooooooooooo many countless atrocities in video games. Why pray tell does rape cross the lie?

I think I mentioned this in an earlier thread but, if rape is fair game in any other medium, it's fair enough if games want to use it.

This a thousand times this,if I can torture and murder innocent's in a game then people shouldn't freak out when it also involves sex

Please understand that I'm not having a go at these posters specifically as individuals, but I just want to say that these kind of comments are very disheartening.

There is a very big difference between the depiction of over the top, surrealist murder and torture depicted in these games and that of a woman being raped. That difference is that very few people are ever going to believe that drilling someone's eyes out and then bashing their face in is in anyway OK. If that were to happen in real-life, the expectation and very likely outcome is that the perpetrator would severely punished by the law and be sent to jail for a very long time.

Unfortunately sexual assault, in real life, does not have that same outcome. While I, and I hope any other decent and humane person, do view sexual assault on that same level as murder there is a large segment of society that doesn't. The part of society that don't think it's really that wrong to have sex with a woman without her consent because "hey, she was asking for it". And it's also unfortunate that there is a very big problem with sexual assault crimes that go un-reported because the victims feel strongly pressured by society to keep it quiet.

That is why I have a huge problem with games depicting sexual assault. Over the top violence is clearly something that does not regularly happen in society, and when it does the expected outcome is for it be severely and appropriately punished by the law. Sexual Assault on the other hand is a very real problem in society, and one that regularly does NOT get appropriately handled. Depicting that in a game is merely perpetuating a very real problem, perhaps even more so that TV/Movies because of the level of user interaction. I am certainly not saying it should never be addressed, because it certainly does need to be addressed. But it needs to be addressed in ways that highlight the issue and move towards making genuine efforts to fix it.

Now I understand that there is context for this specific instance, and obviously I've not played the game either, so maybe Miami Hotline 2 will address it in a positive manner. You'll have to forgive me if I strongly doubt that will be the case.

 

[LetalisK]

We commit soooooooooooooooo many countless atrocities in video games. Why pray tell does rape cross the lie?

I think I mentioned this in an earlier thread but, if rape is fair game in any other medium, it's fair enough if games want to use it.

This a thousand times this,if I can torture and murder innocent's in a game then people shouldn't freak out when it also involves sex

Please understand that I'm not having a go at these posters specifically as individuals, but I just want to say that these kind of comments are very disheartening.

There is a very big difference between the depiction of over the top, surrealist murder and torture depicted in these games and that of a woman being raped. That difference is that very few people are ever going to believe that drilling someone's eyes out and then bashing their face in is in anyway OK. If that were to happen in real-life, the expectation and very likely outcome is that the perpetrator would severely punished by the law and be sent to jail for a very long time.

Unfortunately sexual assault, in real life, does not have that same outcome. While I, and I hope any other decent and humane person, do view sexual assault on that same level as murder there is a large segment of society that doesn't. The part of society that don't think it's really that wrong to have sex with a woman without her consent because "hey, she was asking for it". And it's also unfortunate that there is a very big problem with sexual assault crimes that go un-reported because the victims feel strongly pressured by society to keep it quiet.

That is why I have a huge problem with games depicting sexual assault. Over the top violence is clearly something that does not regularly happen in society, and when it does the expected outcome is for it be severely and appropriately punished by the law. Sexual Assault on the other hand is a very real problem in society, and one that regularly does NOT get appropriately handled. Depicting that in a game is merely perpetuating a very real problem, perhaps even more so that TV/Movies because of the level of user interaction. I am certainly not saying it should never be addressed, because it certainly does need to be addressed. But it needs to be addressed in ways that highlight the issue and move towards making genuine efforts to fix it.

Sooo...don't you think it'd be a good idea to bring the problem to the forefront and essentially force people to deal with the fact that it's a horrific thing, doesn't get dealt with, there are shitty mysogynistic attitudes about it, and just bring some general awareness to the issue instead of pretending it doesn't happen? Movies, books, TV, and music have long been held as mediums where we can bring public consciousness to bear on serious social problems, even including rape. Why should gaming be different, especially if we want gaming to grow as an art form? Isn't gaming the best equipped of all mediums to get people to think?

Edit: Mind you, this is slightly tangential as I do not consider Hotline Miami to do ANY of the above and I find it distasteful myself. But I always get the impression from posts like this that the issue of rape should not be expressed in public discourse and mediums and I think we stifle the growth of our society by doing so. No, I don't think Hotline Miami meaningfully contributes to any such discourse, but we shouldn't let it or projects like it to stop us either.

 

[Bucht]

If only this much people would care when someone is raped in real life...

 

[Brown_Coat117]

Unfortunately sexual assault, in real life, does not have that same outcome. While I, and I hope any other decent and humane person, do view sexual assault on that same level as murder there is a large segment of society that doesn't. The part of society that don't think it's really that wrong to have sex with a woman without her consent because "hey, she was asking for it". And it's also unfortunate that there is a very big problem with sexual assault crimes that go un-reported because the victims feel strongly pressured by society to keep it quiet.

You know as a victim of sexual abuse I grow really freaking tired of this "we should hide this shit from view," attitude that I constantly see from people. People really need to get it in their damn heads that concealing this stuff in media only makes the problems you mention worse, not better. As GIJOE told us, "knowing is half the battle."

Getting these issues out there and breaking the taboo issues that society has with them will only make things better. Yes this will involve going to some uncomfortable places. Yes this will include depictions that "feel wrong." Yes this will cause some temporary pain for some people.

As for sexual assault being "on the same level murder," I simply say, "no." Yes my experiences cause me pain, but I still enjoy living, that's really not a possible outcome with murder.

Also what is it with it always being about protecting women and not all victims.

 

[marcooos]

In what possible way was Hotline Miami sexist?

Seriously? Let's see. The most prominent female character in the game is a victim, a helpless damsel, a trophy, and a victim again. The promo art itself shows a scantily clad unconscious woman needing to be protected from other men.

If portraying women as helpless, property of men, victims, and sexual objects isn't sexist than dictionaries have been lying to me.

So a game where the main protagonist is a white male and normally depicted wearing a fucking pig mask whilst commiting acts of extreme violence is sexist.... Right