So my roommate changed rooms because I'm bisexual.
- Thread starter Zen Toombs
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All you've done is underline the problem (although at least you said something among all that crap; my Lit teacher would shoot me if I handed something in with that much waffle). People are uncomfortable because they back out - as this guy did - from "potentially uncomfortable" situations. And what does this lead to? Why, bigotry! Because if no one hangs around with anyone even in the slightest bit different, then no one can survive outside of that environment. And... hey... wait a minute! That bigotry stuff was in the 1950s, wasn't it? Why yes, I think it bloody well was!PhantomEcho said:
Look at that, I do know the difference between two words. By fucking Jove! Perhaps if you'd read my comment properly - and stopped imagining yourself as Token Black from South Park - you wouldn't have had to waste all your time.
As for sexuality being a major difference: only if you make it so. Which this guy has, and which you are making it. In reality, the difference between me and a gay guy is not that far beyond the difference between my friend who prefers blondes, whilst I prefer brunettes. And in society as a whole that gap is ever-closing (albeit far too slowly), and it'd close quicker if people didn't run at thought of being the 'odd one out', or defend such an infantile response.
I understand your used-to-be roommate. He just wouldn't feel comfortable around you, and you have to accept that, not try to imply that he is homophobic and portrait yourself as a victim.
Why would he feel uncomfortable, you ask me? No, it's not because you are bisexual. It's because you are a person that could possibly be interested in him, and he won't ever feel the same way about you. It doesn't matter than you are bi. If you were a ugly girl, he'd feel the same way.
Why would he feel uncomfortable, you ask me? No, it's not because you are bisexual. It's because you are a person that could possibly be interested in him, and he won't ever feel the same way about you. It doesn't matter than you are bi. If you were a ugly girl, he'd feel the same way.
"It's political correctness gone mad."Buretsu said:
Eugh. At least come up with a new way of saying that fucking phrase. You haven't even used it properly.
And yes, I meant live with/hang around with/occupy the same space as/etc, people don't speak in entirely literal sentences.
He sounds like a nice enough guy. He didn't want anything bad to come from it, because he's probably not used to being that close to people who aren't straight. Might have been where he grew up or something. I disagree with him wanting to back out like that, but at the same time I disagree with you mentioning your and two other people's sexualities in the first meeting with someone. He shouldn't have been that against it, but I can't imagine a way to tell someone who you like fucking that quickly without it being way too frontal.
Woodsey said:
Woodsey, your logic fails to astound. In fact, it fails to be logic. By your reasoning, we should all just throw outselves blindly into uncomfortable situations, because FUCK... nothing's a big deal when you don't give a shit about it! Hey, you know... that's a great sentiment!
There's just one problem.
This might come as a news flash for you, mate, but HUMANS ARE FUCKING HUMAN! (because hey, you like swearing, right?)
So when logic fails, I guess I'll just have to beat you over the head with this. Humans. Are. Human. Repeat it. Live it. Understand it. You cannot expect that people should sacrifice their ability to function comfortably... in order to keep up with the latest trends in political correctness.
It doesn't work. It has -NEVER- worked. You just end up with a BUNCH of uncomfortable people fidgeting and squirming. Who wins? Hmm? Who comes out on top there? The bi-sexual guy who has a roommate who doesn't feel comfortable sharing a room with him every day for god-only-knows-how-long because he doesn't know how to act?
Does the guy who changed rooms win by staying, and learning how to live alongside Gays through way of fidgeting and sitting awkwardly in a group?
You can say what you want, but BLINDLY charging into situations has been universally accepted as a BAD IDEA for... oh... fuck... centuries now. And you know what? There's a good reason for it! Because NOBODY fucking wins. Just ask the Native Americans! Sure, they got a few good ambushes in there... but it just fueled racial hatred against them to the point that the fledgling United States opted for a policy of utter extermination!
Oh yes. Victory indeed. We all lose out on culture, and have to live with a history of bloodshed and hatred looming over our heads.
But no, no... you don't see it that way! You suggest we should all BEAT uncomfortable ideas into our heads until what? Until we REALLY come to resent them? Until folks begin misattributing their discomfort to some inherent flaw in sexuality?
Bigotry arises not from people being unwilling to LIVE IN THE SAME HOUSE... it comes from people being UNWILLING TO UNDERSTAND ONE ANOTHER. And that doesn't take living in the same room. It doesn't mean you're always COMFORTABLE in close proximity to the person. In fact, comfort has exactly FUCK ALL to do with bigotry unless you use it as an excuse.
Am I excusing hatred by saying 'Homosexuality makes me uncomfortable'? No, of course not. Because it doesn't. Homosexuality, asexuality, bestiality, the hell do I care about someone's sexual preferences? You can be sleeping with your cousin for all it matters to me. As long as you don't forcibly shove your private interests into my life... I really couldn't care less what you do in your bedroom, barnyard, or at the family reunion.
Does that mean I want to live with it, every day, just a stone's throw from my own door? Of course not. Nor should it! People have a right to feel awkward and out of place. It's just a part of life.
When you try to make it into something it's not, like you are now... well... you just come across as a self-important ass. And that's your right too, sure. But I sure as hell wouldn't want to live with someone like that.
You call being uncomfortable the PROBLEM... I call it a natural response to logical reasoning in the human animal. It's hardwired into us. And it's not a bad thing. Sure, one can argue that it leads us to ostracize those who are different, but as I've already pointed out, it obviously doesn't HAVE to since I have absolutely no problem associating with my gay friends... nor my friends in the shop... nor my friends who do nothing but play Dungeons and Dragons.
In a social setting, none of these differences matter. But home isn't a social setting. Home is a private place where we go to unwind from the day. Saying that someone is WRONG because they choose to surround themselves with familiar and comfortable things at home is just imbecilic. When you compound the stress of a student atmosphere, where learning and exams and the like are as much a factor as anything... the idea of COMFORT is -very- important.
It's great that you can feel comfortable in all situations, if in fact you really can. It's a testament to human versatility when we manage to encounter new situations and grow. But it most certainly isn't a situation of bigotry when we opt to refrain. That's not a juvenile response. It's just a response, based entirely upon factors which matter to the individual.
It's your response TO this response that is juvenile. Naive, even, for you truly expect that the world is simply going to drop all of it's emotional baggage and accept a completely new way of thinking and interpreting what it means to be 'Human' without any of that awkward, stumbling phase we're all going through right now.
And that's not even arguing that your belief in sexuality being no bigger a difference than a preference in blondes and brunettes is utterly fallacious.
So really, what am I saying? What am I arguing here?
Get this. I'm arguing that your arguments on how we should approach sexuality are actually ENLIGHTENED. Naive. Before their time. Yes. But enlightened. And I encourage you to hold onto them (if in fact they are actually true and your own), because that IS indeed the way that things should be heading.
But we're not there yet, as a society. We may never be there completely. And that's FINE!
I'm also arguing that your RESPONSE to people who differ from your position is absolutely backwards and wrong, and is in fact PERPETRATING the problem rather than resolving it! It is this very mentality that causes people to rescind FURTHER from the cusp of enlightenment. It is this very sentiment, that ANY amount of discomfort is racism/sexism/bigotry that causes people to FEAR the situation like they do.
By lambasting and destroying the character of anyone who is slightly uncomfortable around intimidating black men... who is fearful of being singled out in a group based on being a different race... who doesn't feel comfortable living surrounded by homosexuality because they have had no experience with how to interact with a group of gay men... you are creating an environment of fear and mistrust.
These folks, like myself, begin to double-check every word they say. They have to focus intensely hard on not saying anything that might be misconstrued as racist. All the while, the folks on the other side are suffering the SAME PROBLEM.
I've got quite a few black friends who, in the beginning, didn't like to talk around me. They were worried I would take offense to their slang terms for white men, to their interests, to their musical tastes. They were always in a group, so I was the only white person there, and they felt uncomfortable with me being around.
I've got a few black friends who are actually more like myself than my white friends, too, who felt ENTIRELY uncomfortable in that crowd.
Eventually, we all worked out an understanding, but it didn't happen overnight.
These things take years. Decades. And you can't expect the change to be universal. We're programmed to feel certain ways. The fear of getting singled out ISN'T juvenile... it's a defense mechanism. Because people DO prey on the one who sticks out, just like any other animal.
When you add onto that awkward fumbling phase this BULLYING of people who don't immediately agree with your enlightened stance? You breed fear and resentment. They begin to resent the gays/women's rights/minorities. They begin to resent you and your 'enlightened' self. And in return, these resentments manifest themselves as sexism, racism, and prejudice against anyone who is different.
Because you PROVE THEIR POINT. You single them out. You ridicule them. You bring that very 'juvenile' fear to life. And then you throw up your arms and wonder why our society's growth towards tolerance and acceptance has been so slow.
Look, you can write all that in 2 paragraphs. You don't sound more intelligent because you draw a very fragile line between this situation and the Native Americans (where the fuck did that even come from?).PhantomEcho said:
"Eventually, we all worked out an understanding, but it didn't happen overnight."
Good, so you're agreeing with me then - the situation has to occur for things to get better. You know what I used to hate? Those bloody class presentations they make you do in high school for inane shit. You know what I hate less now that I have to deliver them practically every week for 6th Form (or Senior Year - I think - if you're in the States)? Those bloody class presentations.
Nobody likes uncomfortable situations, that doesn't mean they should be patted on the back all the time and told its OK and "oooh, its just human nature! You shouldn't have to change at all". Fuck that. Things take effort, and it takes effort because people weren't brought up to do it in the first place. If they put in the effort, things will be a lot nicer down the line.
The issue is really not even that he felt uncomfortable. The issue is that he pussied out, and that his qualifying statement for doing it is considered fine. I suppose he would get a brownie point for being honest.
And seriously, whilst you're writing out your response, think about what your POINT is and just say it. I promise you'll sound much more clever.
(Oh, and yes I like to swear. Acute observation, well done.)
As a women, I would obviously refuse to share a room with a straight man. I wouldn't be expecting him to fancy me, but first of all, it's a possibility (and vice versa of course), and secondly, I would feel very uncomfortable sharing such close quarters with someone who was sexually interested in my gender.
This is pretty much the same thing. Props to him for being honest and backing out instead of causing problems later on.
This is pretty much the same thing. Props to him for being honest and backing out instead of causing problems later on.
To be honest i don't really see the problem. I can totally understand why he may feel a bit uncomfortable. Firstly he may not know how to act with a bisexual, i mean there might be some verbal taboos like homophobic jokes and he might feel "verbally restricted". Or he might also be worried that maybe some day you would try to hit on him (sure more unlikely than anything else, but you never know ey) which might create a potentially very uncomfortable situation. So there are loads of things that might make a straight guy "fear" (strong word but that's what it comes to) to live in the same room as a gay or bi person.
OP here, and once again, remember that I said that he handled the situation decently, and that I understand that he is uncomfortable (I REALLY don't like it for reasons stated and unstated, but I understand it). If someone is truly as uncomfortable in a situation as Potential Roomie[sup]TM[/sup] said he was, it's their prerogative if they want to get out.
Now that being said:
And does it matter that I mostly just like girls?
As for jokes, ones that involve homosexuality? That's fine. Jokes that are in poor taste? Can be alright okay, but go in the "dead baby comedy [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DeadBabyComedy]" bin. Jokes that are homophobic? Never okay.
Exactly the same as racist or sexist or XYZBBQist jokes. Those jokes are never okay. Jokes in poor taste can be alright, and jokes that just involve race or sex or barbecue are always fine.
Now that being said:
So who am I supposed to room with?Dystopia said:
And does it matter that I mostly just like girls?With a bisexual, you act like s/he's just a person, because that's all we are. People. *Hippy music starts playing*generals3 said:
As for jokes, ones that involve homosexuality? That's fine. Jokes that are in poor taste? Can be alright okay, but go in the "dead baby comedy [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DeadBabyComedy]" bin. Jokes that are homophobic? Never okay.
Exactly the same as racist or sexist or XYZBBQist jokes. Those jokes are never okay. Jokes in poor taste can be alright, and jokes that just involve race or sex or barbecue are always fine.
Zen Toombs said:OP here, and once again, remember that I said that he handled the situation decently, and that I understand that he is uncomfortable (I REALLY don't like it for reasons stated and unstated, but I understand it). If someone is truly as uncomfortable in a situation as Potential Roomie[sup]TM[/sup] said he was, it's their prerogative if they want to get out.
Now that being said:
So who am I supposed to room with?Dystopia said:
With a bisexual, you act like s/he's just a person, because that's all we are. People. *Hippy music starts playing*generals3 said:
As for jokes, ones that involve homosexuality? That's fine. Jokes that are in poor taste? Can be alright okay, but go in the "dead baby comedy [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DeadBabyComedy]" bin. Jokes that are homophobic? Never okay.
Exactly the same as racist or sexist or XYZBBQist jokes. Those jokes are never okay. Jokes in poor taste can be alright, and jokes that just involve race or sex or barbecue are always fine.
To you. Remember. These are fine -to you-.
But every person is a different case. And every person cannot be accommodated for. You just never know who is going to get worked up and/or bent out of shape over a joke, or a sleazy laugh, or anything else.
And it's not really even limited to sexuality/gender/race! It's -everyone-.
Which is why we're programmed with a defense mechanism that says: Stick to people whom you know share common interests and themes.
It's not about discrimination based on race, or gender, or any other goddamn thing.
It's to help keep people from getting into arguments and fights about things which are really just cultural misunderstandings.
It would be nice if we could all just act like people.
But even when we ARE just people... even people of similar tastes... there's fighting and arguing and offense and insults.
It's not a new concept.
The new concept is that, instead of promoting this behavior, we're trying to entice people to grow. And then there's another group of people who don't ENTICE, they DEMAND people grow, or else they'll slander your name and harass you and blacklist you and blah, blah... no.
Just no.
The solution has to be elegant, and subtle... or it won't work. And I hope you understand where I'm coming from when I say that. I hope you understand that the end goal is still the same. That we all work towards just being people, like you say.
But people need to work at being a little LESS like... well... people.
Because people are bastards. And it's very easy for one bastard to ruin all forward momentum, no matter which side of the line they claim to be on.
Well, he did say "I have never been confronted with a situation like this before" leading us to believe that he's trying to avoid confrontation with homosexuals.Agitated Owl said:
You don't have to "hate" the gay community in order to be a homophobe. It's the same concept with racism. You don't have to hate black people in order to be called a racist.
It's a small discomfort around something you're unfamiliar with, so it's technically a phobia of something he doesn't understand. It's not exactly appropriate behavior, but the person in question handled it very rationally, so I don't think it's right to berate him for that.
Or at least that's how I understand it. I do understand my definition applies to a lot more people than your's does though.
I see no reason for you to complain. He was uncomfortable, he backed out, that's his right, and it doesn't effect you. Would you be upset if he had backed out because he just didn't like you? If yes, you need to stop looking for people's approval, and if not, then you shouldn't be complaining about this. The effect on you is exactly the same.