So Prop. 19 didnt go through (the one about Legalizing Marijuana)

[Rhiehn]

I am under the belief that all drugs should be legal, from codeine to methamphetamine. I find it funny that someone can legally drink antifreeze while driving on the freeway, but smoking/snorting/injecting (insert illegal substance here) at your home, where you cause no harm to others gets you put in jail. The government doesn't make it illegal to harm yourself, only to harm yourself in ways that could be considered enjoyable. It doesn't matter at all how bad or benign weed is, it should be your right to choose whether it's worth the risks.

P.S. I don't do and never have done any illegal drugs.

 

[JamesBr]

It's semantics in the same way the difference between murder and manslaughter is semantics. You might not agree with it. But it's still important.

Habitual 'addiction' is a term I don't really agree with. Because it isn't an addiction. You have no physical comedown.

It's a habit. Not an addiction.

Basically what I'm saying. Not that one cannot become addicted, but that it's not really an "addiction", it's a habit. Food addiction exists and yet no one considers food to be addictive. The Devil is the detail.

Edit: on a side note, I'm pretty sure (I could be misinformed, this is merely what I've been told) that there is such a thing as nicotine withdrawal. Being a smoker I've had nic-fits, which I always assumed to be these. I might be wrong though, it might just be the habit. They do seem to be inconsistent and heavily dependent on how idle I am. Never thought of it that way. Huh.

 

[Ekonk]

Well. Too bad for you.

*Leaves to smoke some pot*

Holland rocks. Although the growing and growing anti-islamic sounds here are getting more distressing and FUCKING INFURIATING everyday. And our new government is a bunch of sanctimonious asshats who care about power only and don't give a shit about moral codes or anything.

Apart from that, it pretty much rocks.

 

[DigitalSushi]

It's semantics in the same way the difference between murder and manslaughter is semantics. You might not agree with it. But it's still important.

Habitual 'addiction' is a term I don't really agree with. Because it isn't an addiction. You have no physical comedown.

It's a habit. Not an addiction.

Its a really difficult discussion to have because its not legal, hence the facts by goverment sponsors are really dubious, I'll be honest I give them the evil eye whenever I hear "drugs are bad mmmkay".

I'm of the opinion that they are addictive, and people I know that use Cannabis on a regular basis, some have issues with it and some don't.

I knew a Brazilian that used Heroin and was unaffected by it, I'm not kidding, he was a user but it had no bearing on his work or family life.

But I've also known people that get can't operate due to the after effects of alcohol and/or Cannabis, so there is an effect for some people.

A habitual addiction is still an addiction, my friend is addicted to chewing his tongue ring, it ruins his teeth and destroys any prospective girlfriends, but he still does it.

But hey, yourself, JamesBr and I have different opinions on the matter, and I'm glad we've fought it out like adults, I'm hugely proud of both of you.

 

[conflictofinterests]

Sorry fellow Californians, Marijuana is STILL illegal
Proposition 19
No 3,826,487 53.8%
Yes 3,297,590 46.2%

Total votes 7124077

i guess California is still as ass-backwards as ever, especially since it was SHOWN that this would generate tax revenue for the government that they could have given to schools or to fixing roads.

EDIT: Removed some stuff to force people to discuss the ACTUAL ISSUE and not troll on me.

I voted for it.

In any case, this was a very VERY vague piece of legislation, leaving it up to local governments to actually do any of the legislation. Any cities, counties, what have you that decided to just not tax marijuana would have found themselves with an influx of marijuana dealers, and there would be little tax revenue regardless of good intentions. Still, without having to recourse to illegal sources, people who already smoke wouldn't have to have their money going into drug cartels (a generally bad thing).

 

[JamesBr]

It's semantics in the same way the difference between murder and manslaughter is semantics. You might not agree with it. But it's still important.

Habitual 'addiction' is a term I don't really agree with. Because it isn't an addiction. You have no physical comedown.

It's a habit. Not an addiction.

Its a really difficult discussion to have because its not legal, hence the facts by goverment sponsors are really dubious, I'll be honest I give them the evil eye whenever I hear "drugs are bad mmmkay".

I'm of the opinion that they are addictive, and people I know that use Cannabis on a regular basis, some have issues with it and some don't.

I knew a Brazilian that used Heroin and was unaffected by it, I'm not kidding, he was a user but it had no bearing on his work or family life.

But I've also known people that get can't operate due to the after effects of alcohol and/or Cannabis, so there is an effect for some people.

A habitual addiction is still an addiction, my friend is addicted to chewing his tongue ring, it ruins his teeth and destroys any prospective girlfriends, but he still does it.

But hey, yourself, JamesBr and I have different opinions on the matter, and I'm glad we've fought it out like adults, I'm hugely proud of both of you.

Couldn't agree more with that. The science behind a lot of this is shady to say the least. It's hard to find any empirical fact for any of it because so many different people are so divided on the issue.

I will concede that it is likely more to do with the individual than the substance itself. Some people simply have addictive personalities. Some don't. I've heard of people dropping heroine like it was nothing before. But I've never known anyone personally do it. That's got to be the height of willpower. I consider myself pretty resilient to most substance people would consider addictive. But I'd never even play with the idea of trying anything that dangerous.

I will still argue the difference between habit and true addiction till I'm blue in the face though. And I'm a bit like your friend. I'm constantly biting my lip piercing. But it's not an issue for me. I don't do it hard enough to damage my teeth or anything. It's really more like the impulse you get when you eat a sugar coated doughnut. I'll be damned if you can stop yourself from licking your lips. XD

Yea. It was a good discussion. Civility is always nice in a situation like this. Just because we disagree on certain points doesn't mean we have to cram our opinions feet first down each others throats.

Agreed again, lol! It's such a hot button topic with so few conclusive findings and shady dealing from every side, it's hard to be certain about many things. But at the end of the day, I'm glad the topic was raised and debated. Maybe we can change somebody else's mind on the topic if not our own. Thanks for the intelligent and enlightening talk, now Imma go eat me some supper. Thanks again!

 

[DigitalSushi]

Couldn't agree more with that. The science behind a lot of this is shady to say the least. It's hard to find any empirical fact for any of it because so many different people are so divided on the issue.

Did you hear about the british Goverment sponsored Dr that had his rights revoked when he spoke out against Extasy?, because he didn't tow the line they fired him, he basically said that pills were only half as harmful as alcohol, but they wanted him to say "pills are bad yo!".

Pr Nutt, he's the guy that did the study that found cannabis is 19 percent addictive on a new scale of factors, such as how it affects everyone not including the user.

I will concede that it is likely more to do with the individual than the substance itself. Some people simply have addictive personalities. Some don't. I've heard of people dropping heroine like it was nothing before. But I've never known anyone personally do it. That's got to be the height of willpower. I consider myself pretty resilient to most substance people would consider addictive. But I'd never even play with the idea of trying anything that dangerous.

I've had Morphine after surgery, and even a year later, I'm here thinking "christ that is good shit", Its like a Sunset in your head, it fucking scares me.

I can only speak from experience, and I say to anyone reading this, please don't even try it.

I will still argue the difference between habit and true addiction till I'm blue in the face though. And I'm a bit like your friend. I'm constantly biting my lip piercing. But it's not an issue for me. I don't do it hard enough to damage my teeth or anything. It's really more like the impulse you get when you eat a sugar coated doughnut. I'll be damned if you can stop yourself from licking your lips. XD

I eat pens all day long, I know girls that eat there hair!

I agree its more of a habit, but you start to suffer withdrawal symptons when not doing that thing your body is used to doing.

Yea. It was a good discussion. Civility is always nice in a situation like this. Just because we disagree on certain points doesn't mean we have to cram our opinions feet first down each others throats.

Well yeah, in fact your more likely to get a nice formed response and more likely to get someone to listen to you when everyone is civil!

Take me for example, I was all like "no man, habit is addiction", but I've bowed down and gone "actually these cool cats have a point to make".

 

[DigitalSushi]

Agreed again, lol! It's such a hot button topic with so few conclusive findings and shady dealing from every side, it's hard to be certain about many things. But at the end of the day, I'm glad the topic was raised and debated. Maybe we can change somebody else's mind on the topic if not our own. Thanks for the intelligent and enlightening talk, now Imma go eat me some supper. Thanks again!

Enjoy your dinner buddy!

 

[oppp7]

I blame the rap music...

 

[Lucifron]

oh so the rich is putting the poor down? i seen "yes on prop 19" and NO "no one prop 19" signs. so who the hell is spending money on to make pot stay illegal? i never seen "no on prop 19" commercials. look at meg whitman, she spent 142 million dollars on the govenor race in california and still lost so the "more money" argument doesn't work. prop 19 lost because it was wrapped in bullshit lawyer talk that ultimately did more harm than good with the way it was set up, not because the government rigged it or that some rich special intrest rigged the vote.

Again, you're putting words in my mouth. I haven't said that the rich are putting the poor down, or that the government or anyone else has rigged an election. Nor have I stated that money is the deciding factor in all elections and issues. You are chasing shadows.
I will however state that money has decided the outcome on prop 19, as you'd be dead several times over if you attempted to count the money the US government and certain groups have spent spreading lies concerning marijuana. I will also claim that the average voter couldn't care less about how proposition 19 was written, and that any literal clusterfuck did diddly-shit to the outcome of the vote.

What if I smoke some weed, then go pick up the kids from school? I'm not in the right state of mind to drive right? I could cause an accident. Now what if everyone was like that?

Well, shucks. I hadn't thought of that!

The action that you described falls outside of my category, as it risks the well-being of others. Wanting to legalize marijuana is not the same as wanting to legalize driving under the influence. With your logic we would have to ban hammers.

 

[lacktheknack]

this is why i don't vote, the masses are stupid and to vote against them is stupider

And this reasoning is stupidest.

If you don't vote you don't get to moan about the outcome, simple as.

The relevant part starts at around 2:05

I don't find him funny, so I'm not watching I'm afraid.

If you don't watch, you have no right to complain.

I'm fairly sure that ability to complain has nothing to do with watching a stand-up comedian. If he is who you get your values and beliefs from, go reassess your life.

 

[Lavi]

Democracy triumphs again.

That wasn't sarcasm, btw. People made a decision. It may or may not be the right one, but it's A decision

This works fine when the people aren't fucking retaaaaaaaarded

 

[Altorin]

yet its still addiction. The human body has the potential to be addicted to anything.

Which detonates your argument as now everything is a drug. BAN EVERYTHING!

i wasn't arguing against drugs. i argued that marijuana is just as addictive as everything else.

It's not. There are chemicals that are physically addictive. Nicotine for instance creates a physical dependance - your body starts to shut down and freak the hell out if you take it away.

Marijuana has no physically addictive qualities.

Therefore, it can't be "just as addictive as everything else" because there are things out there (lots of them) that are FAR more addictive then marijuana.

And who cares if something is addictive? Alcohol and Nicotine (not to mention some of the other cancer causing chemicals that are added to tobacco for whatever the fuck reason) are super addictive, and are illegal. Marijuana is not, and is illegal.

Marijuana is illegal for bullshit political reasons. There has never been any case of someone overdosing on marijuana. More people die going to the bathroom every year then have ever died from marijuana. Yeah, you shouldn't drive a car, and yeah, you might cause an accident, and I guess if you want to be a jerk about it, you could say marijuana caused that vehicular homicide, however, noone has ever sat at home, and smoked so much weed that they just died. Never. Alcohol kills people in that exact same way every single day.

The bottom line is, Marijuana is a multi-billion dollar industry. And right now, ALL of that money is going to criminals (most of whom just sell pot, but I digress). If you legalize it and regulate it, then NONE of that multi-billion dollar industry goes to criminals. It goes to stores that sell pot, it goes to taxes.. And even if the sales tax on pot is negligible (I don't think it is), the taxes on the entire industry certainly wouldn't be negligible. It would also save millions of dollars spent charging and incarcerating people with posession. People wouldn't lose their lives just because they choose a way to relax that doesn't hurt anyone, just because some politician wanted to claim that they're "cracking down on dangerous drugs".

Drug laws are like gun laws. They only really punish people who shouldn't be classed as criminals. Criminals don't give a damn, and in fact, those laws are actually GOOD for criminals. Makes it so they're the only ones selling drugs so they can sell them for whatever they want, and they're the only ones with guns, so fuck everyone else.

Oh well, makes no real difference to me. I live in BC. Old people openly talk about smoking weed on the bus here. It's illegal, technically, but the cops really have more important stuff to worry about. Like people that actually rob other people, and murder them, and attack them. People who are actually dangerous.

 

[Legion IV]

Mabey if every pot smoker was like bob marley the greatest musican to ever live i'd say sure but thats not the fact. Drugs are bad mmkk. But honestly am just glad it didnt go through. I dont want this junk leegale. 10 years from now i dont want it being verywhere and my kids doing it if i have any.

 

[Ashcrexl]

it's sad when over half of a population is afraid of a little flora