So, The Escapist is in the news again...

[Kenbo Slice]

Man. I remember just under a year ago when everybody was complaining about the moderation here. There was a few months of peace but here we are again. I think this possibly means that some things on this site need to change or be reworked. It makes me sad to see so many people get banned or suspended because they thought they could freely discuss something that they usually aren't allowed to. They could've let it slide for that one thread. Honestly, how can that video be posted and then not have people talk about it?

 

[Guitarmasterx7]

I work making content for the internet, and adblock cuts what I would be making (which would still be only slightly above a minimum wage job keep in mind) literally in half. Between that and nonmonetizable mobile and international views, I probably get paid for anywhere between 1/4th and 1/3rd of the views on my videos. Adblock is putting a stranglehold on people who make content and maintain sites (neither of which are free) and as a result you're probably going to see a lot of sites switching to or at very least implementing paid models. In fact I'd say adblock is probably one of the reasons net neutrality is on the chopping block.

So trust me, I understand the frustration when somebody stands up all loud and proud as if they're some justice warrior for using something that threatens the livelihood of everyone who works on the internet and the state of the free internet as a whole, and I certainly don't use it myself. But that said...

The Escapist in particular has some of the most atrociously obnoxious ads I've ever come across. Specifically those ones that pop out or play sound when you scroll over them (or pop out/play sound whenever they feel like sending you in a mad search through your tabs wondering where the hell the chorus of six simultaneous drunk driving adverts is currently coming from.) If I didn't understand the ramifications of Adblock this is certainly one of the sites I'd use it for.

 

[88chaz88]

You know what's the real punchline to The Escapist's ad issues? The Publisher's Club. This is actually a great idea in theory, and you could potentially use a subscription model to be able to do away with obnoxious ads altogether. Instead the biggest incentive for the Publisher's Club is to remove the ads that are causing the problem.

 

[Guitarmasterx7]

All well and good. Just tell me, for my curiosity's sake: as a content creator on the internet, if someone contscted you personally pointing out that such and such ad actually hijacked your whole page and whisked your users to another site and asked you not to stop using ads, but to remove that specific piece of content, what would you do?

That sounds like a security issue of some sort that would be resolved by contacting the company providing ads or whoever hosts your servers rather than taking down a piece of content. Or are you talking about something like those ads on porn sites that open a new window or something? Because you have to specifically partner with those kinds of advertisers. Is this hypothetical based on some fucked up nonsense that's actually happened?

 

[fix-the-spade]

Any thoughts on this whole fiasco? (And for the love of god, keep things civil in this thread, and don't mention that thing that starts with "a" and ends with "lock".)

The Escapist has become a 'big website,' I'm not sure when it happened, but definitely did. Free Discussion becomes Discussion only in directions that serve our corporate interest, especially on subjects we find contentious. Oh well, sooner or later some new games website (or pdf...) will pop up and start attracting the hip young crowd (or the old curmudgeonly crowd) and the whole cycle will start again, it's probably already happening.

 

[Zipa]

You know what's the real punchline to The Escapist's ad issues? The Publisher's Club. This is actually a great idea in theory, and you could potentially use a subscription model to be able to do away with obnoxious ads altogether. Instead the biggest incentive for the Publisher's Club is to remove the ads that are causing the problem.

The trouble is as I mentioned in Jim's video thread is that the Escapist seems to have written it off as not effective or not worth pushing, more than a few people discovered its existance by accident myself included. It wouldn't even be much work, just move the front page banner nearer to the top so people actually see it, and make it bigger.

Then get one or two of the content producers like Jim, LRR or Yahtzee to remind people about it once in awhile at the end of their videos. I doubt they would mind as its helping to pay them and they have advertised things like the Expo before.

And as far as the banning for talking about you know what as far as I understood it in that thread you were fine if you were discussing it and contributing to the thread in some way. However if you were just flipping off the Escapist and going I use it F you then you would get banned. You could say that you used it and why it seemed and not get the banhammer from what I saw.

 

[Legion]

I dunno if anyone's noticed yet, but all over the internet, people tend to completely forget about a lil thing called "Freedom of Speech".

I think we can either say ANYTHING or NOTHING AT ALL, because that's what "Freedom of Speech" actually means.

Except you gave up your right to Freedom of Speech the moment you agreed to this websites terms and conditions. The Escapist gave you a Code of Conduct page to read when you made your account upon which it stated what the rules were and what the consequences for breaking those rules would be.

You clicked on the "I Agree" button along with everybody else who is posting on here. Therefore nobody who has admitted to or condoned the usage of adblockers on this site has any cause for complaint. They all agreed to obey the rules and are all facing the consequences for breaking them. Freedom of Speech doesn't apply when you agreed for it not to.

That doesn't mean that everybody ought to like and respect the rules. But to accept and obey them? Yes, if they wish to be a part of these forums. If not then they shouldn't have clicked that "I Agree" button when they made their account.

That is not to say that this situation has been handled particularly well. Jim Sterling made a video about adblockers and people assumed that considering the topic, there'd be more leniency in regards to what can be said. Truth be told, before the video was approved a statement should have been prepared for the comments section laying out that despite the topic, people still needed to obey the rules to the letter. As it stands it seems there have been an awful lot of miscommunication in regards to the whole thing.

I've seen several people state that it is not possible to talk about adblockers without condoning or admitting to using them, but to be honest, it is possible to have a response to this without breaking the rules. If people were willing to take the time to do it.

For example:

"While I understand the reasons for why adblockers are considered a problem, there are other points to consider. When people are visiting a webpage, and advertisements pop up unannounced with sounds, they have the potential to cause problems for the user. That, as well as the fact that some advertisements cause the user to be taken away from the page, or else prevent them from seeing it means a lot of people have an aversion to them.

While most people are accepting of the need for advertisements on the internet, it should be easily understandable as to why some people might take measures to prevent the ones that cause them problems.

If website owners do not want people to use adblockers on their site, then they ought to make the advertisements less intrusive. Because while many people are okay with them existing in general, a lot of them are not going to accept putting up with the ones that cause unnecessary issues. Websites should also not expect this to be the case.

As it is not a case of wanting to prevent advertisements. It is wanting to prevent the bad ones in particular. People would be a lot less likely to take measures to prevent them if they weren't so much of an issue."

Unless I am very much mistaken, the above is pretty much what a lot of people on here have been saying. Not only that but I am pretty certain that it also doesn't break any of the websites rules. It doesn't admit to using adblock, nor does it say that people should be. All it does is address the reasons for why people often choose to do so.

If anybody feels like finding out if my belief on this matter is correct, I guess they could feel free to flag this post and see if this is true.

 

[Evil Smurf]

As long as you don't mention the war Adblock or things illegal in the USA you'll be fine. That's what I tell myself.

 

[Eclipse Dragon]

I'm pretty sure I'll get banned for this post, but meh, someone has to speak up.
It actually does feel like a dictatorship.

You're not going to get banned for this post, I highly doubt you'll even get a warning, at least as far as I can see, you aren't breaking any rules what so ever (and you have a full healthbar) it takes eight strikes to get banned on this site (unless you're a spambot or a ban jumper)

I've checked out the adblock thread, and damn, everyone who admitted to using it got a warning.

I dunno if anyone's noticed yet, but all over the internet, people tend to completely forget about a lil thing called "Freedom of Speech", even on the "Molyneux hates F2P", some poor guy got banned (dunno who he is, his post got removed shortly after) for POLITELY not agreeing with Molyneux.

This is the internet, freedom of speech doesn't necessarily apply. Sites have rules, the rule in question is this

Constructive criticism is welcomed; negativity for its own sake is not. Further, discussions instructing or otherwise advocating the circumvention of The Escapist's advertisements, site sponsors, security mechanisms, media protections or similar facilities will not be tolerated. If we find you being slanderous with regard to any part of The Escapist, you will be penalized.

Mods on every single site I know of recently have gone fanboy on their users. They don't like it, poof. And sometimes they even change the rules ON-THE-FLY when someone dares call "bullshit" on it.
It's the same thing with the army's "Don't ask, don't tell" bullshit.

We are talking about The Escapist specifically, whether this is true or not, your mileage may vary, I don't personally think so, the mods have a group dedicated to answering questions people may have about the rules [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/groups/view/Moderation-Team]. Constructive criticism is welcome on this site, but often people forget what exactly that is and instead complain, preach, insult the moderators and just in general be nasty. Civility is the key, much like the post you've written here. I have asked the mods a number of questions and they've answered them the best they could, you have to remember, at the end of the day, these are people doing a job for free. If I were dealing with a disgruntled customer who can't keep their cool, I wouldn't personally feel very inclined to be extra helpful.

And it's the only reason nowadays I almost completely avoid forums. People aren't secure enough in their beliefs so they absolutely have to "destroy" anyone or anything that might challenge their beliefs.

That leaves no room for debate whatsoever.

This is about the userbase of online communities, not the rules or moderation or staff. It's not the site's fault if people are offended when someone else disagrees with them (the user voicing the opinion, not the site). That's just the nature of the internet unfortunately.

What's worse, it's that you can get banned for "offending" someone, BUT, and that's a big "but", no one has a definition of what is or not offensive. Don't like Superman? Great, now you just offended someone somewhere, so banned you get.

You think Batman is cooler that Superman? Banned you get.

This is not true at least in the context of the Escapist. You won't get banned for saying "Batman is cooler than Superman" nor will you get banned for not liking Superman (trust me there are a lot of people on this site who don't like Superman), you won't even get a warning for either of those things.

What you WILL get a warning for is insulting a group of people, the way you phrase it matters a lot.

Acceptable Post: I don't like Superman, I feel he's a boring superhero who doesn't have many flaws, also the whole glasses thing and all of a sudden everyone doesn't know he's Superman is silly.

Unacceptable Post: I don't like Superman and anyone who does is a complete idiot with no taste in superheros.

The more time passes, the more people start adhering to this "not on my watch" attitude of covering their ears and yelling "la la la la" really loud while at the same time trying to get the other guy banned.

This again is an issue of the community, not the moderation. If you find yourself in a situation like this, where the other person refuses to listen to reason, your best course of action is to agree to disagree, before things start getting ugly and somebody ends up with a warning. I'm sure even if you can't agree on anything else, "We both don't have the time to argue on the internet" is a good bet.

----
As for the adblock thread, treat it like a piracy thread. Discuss it all you want, but for the love of your healthbar, don't admit to actually doing it. People weren't getting warned for listing the reasons why people use adblock, they were getting warned for saying they themselves (specifically) use adblock.

 

[Foolery]

I don't understand what people expected out of the adblock thread. That mods weren't going to give out warnings? I knew it was bad news as soon I saw the title. You can't trust this place.

I'm here for the community. Not the content. That's the only thing that keeps me around. This site feels unnecessarily hostile to it's users.

I like what Jim was attempting to do, but the structure and rules of the Escapist hinders that kind of discussion.

 

[Barbas]

Hey? Wasn't the vid about Sterling not blaming people if they use adblock, but he gets annoyed if they do and still tell him how to do his content?

The article seems to be misrepresenting him rather.

I am genuinely struggling to remember what the subject of the video was after the resulting maelstrom, but I think you're right. It feels like a while since we've been back on track.

The answer to every complaint or accusation I have read in the Jimquisition AdBlock Episode thread - and this one - has been answered in the former thread. People just aren't reading through it. It would help if the relevant explanations provided by Kross and mods were all stickied to the first post, but all we seem to be getting is people repeating - almost word-for-word - the first few posts that received warnings, then complaining about the moderation.

Spoiler: Do You Know This Man?

 

[CaptainMarvelous]

Wait, you PAY the mods? I have several opinions on that recently learnt information but am unable to express them as criticising management is no longer allowed.
... wait.
Is... THAT criticising management?
... I've had a full health bar for a while, I suppose this is long past due.

OT: Well... we can't really discuss the ontopic according to the rules

Constructive criticism is welcomed; negativity for its own sake is not. Further, discussions instructing or otherwise advocating the circumvention of The Escapist's advertisements, site sponsors, security mechanisms, media protections or similar facilities will not be tolerated. If we find you being slanderous with regard to any part of The Escapist, you will be penalized.

Since nigh on any discussion regarding 'rocking out with your adbl-ck out' will be instructing the circumvention by it's very nature.

All we can talk about is how a poorly handled problem is now splashing into the public eye like a poorly timed cumshot. Seriously, I genuinely have very little problems with these forums but you can't blame your users/customers for a poorly designed business model. It's like *****-smacking everyone who walks into a video-game store for just browsing and saying if they do it too often they'll be banned. Yes, you guys need to get paid and ads are certainly -A- means to do that, but maybe listen to the constructive criticism that the ones you have are annoying as all hell.