So this girl on Twitter is pretty fucked up....

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Secondhand Revenant

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So since I'm not gonna watch the video tell me if I have this right...

They pay her to say mean things to them? And the issue is she's really mean and they aren't mentally well so they keep doing it and don't just stop contacting her and still do what she says?
 

Sonmi

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Secondhand Revenant said:
So since I'm not gonna watch the video tell me if I have this right...

They pay her to say mean things to them? And the issue is she's really mean and they aren't mentally well so they keep doing it and don't just stop contacting her and still do what she says?
Pretty much.

They are broken addicts coming to her to get their poisonous fix, which she gleefully takes their money for.
 

Secondhand Revenant

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Ezekiel said:
Sonmi said:
Secondhand Revenant said:
So since I'm not gonna watch the video tell me if I have this right...

They pay her to say mean things to them? And the issue is she's really mean and they aren't mentally well so they keep doing it and don't just stop contacting her and still do what she says?
Pretty much.

They are broken addicts coming to her to get their poisonous fix, which she gleefully takes their money for.
I don't see any of you intervening or making the smallest effort to help them, so why take the moral high ground? She succeeds because nobody ever does anything.
Same reason I don't insert myself into a random alcoholic's life to try to fix their issue. Intrustion into someone's life to fix their problem is not generally welcome from a stranger. Plus I doubt I'd know how to fix their issues or have the patience for it
 

Sonmi

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Ezekiel said:
Sonmi said:
Secondhand Revenant said:
So since I'm not gonna watch the video tell me if I have this right...

They pay her to say mean things to them? And the issue is she's really mean and they aren't mentally well so they keep doing it and don't just stop contacting her and still do what she says?
Pretty much.

They are broken addicts coming to her to get their poisonous fix, which she gleefully takes their money for.
I don't see any of you intervening or making the smallest effort to help them, so why take the moral high ground? She succeeds because nobody ever does anything.
I spent some time doing charity work at a suicide hotline last year, I try to do as much as I possibly can.

I don't reach out to them directly, but that doesn't mean I can't find what people like her are doing to people like them abhorrent.
 

DudeistBelieve

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DoPo said:
DudeistBelieve said:
Dansen said:
Phasmal said:
DudeistBelieve said:
No no. you're confusing him with guys like Keemstar and Scarce, they're the ones who do that kind of TMZ psuedo celebrity bullshit.

PhillyD covers news. He's not covering this because he's up and arms about it and just found out about it (like I'm doing) he's covering it because "This is what the internet is up in arms about" It's a watch this and get a pulse of what the community cares about type deal. He reports on fluff like this all the way to hard news like whats going on with the elections.
Is the internet "up in arms", though? This is the first I've heard of it and apparently her twitter is deactivated?

I mean, I'm just going off of the thread, though, because I'm not watching an 11 minute video of someone moaning about a twitter account.
I don't really watch his videos much but from what I've seen the headline story usually takes up 3-5 minutes at most and he talks about other stuff. Hes closer to a human newsfeed and not really internet paparazzi.
This. Defranco doesn't just rift on a topic for 10 minutes like some brain dead idiot.
Cool, now that we have definitely established what the length of the video is something less than 10-11 minuts, anyone mind answering the actual question that was asked? Because it wasn't about the video duration.

Is the Internet "up in arms"?
Reason for asking this is that it's very easy to point at something rather insignificant and say "See the INTERNET is up in arms about this topic" which is an underhanded "news" tactic.

Where is that happening?
I suppose it might be true but "up in arms" is very relative. Say, the ME3 debacle was relevant to the gaming community, while people outside of that might have never even heard of it. Things usually extent to only a community which might be rather big (gaming community) or relatively small (single website). So, when saying "people" it's important to specify who they are - all people? I find it hard to believe. All people within community X? Maybe, who knows. All people on website X? Depending on the website it might warrant an "OK" or it might just lead to "...so?". Alice and Bob only (a.k.a. just a few)? I guess they are people but why would they be that relevant?

When did "up in arms" become something automatically worthy of being covered by somebody as (apparently) esteemed as Mr DeFranco?
There are a lot of things that I bet you he hasn't covered, nor has anybody else "high profile", and it's issues that have people "up in arms" as well. And with good reason - it's usually not relevant. Not to the wider public, at least.
Ohhhhh. I'm genuinely sorry, I misunderstood the original question.

The YouTube community. More than likely he's covering it because, as he does usually, his community of fans on the Defranco sub-reddit requested.

PsychicTaco115 said:
Does anyone know where I can contact her? I've been wanting someone to stomp on my balls

Uh, I mean, HOW DARE SHE

HOW
DARE
SHE
The fucked up thing IS NOT the femdom, IMO. Thats vanilla.

whats fucked up is what I see as a complete abuse of the power shes given... Ya know it's like going to a acupuncturist, you gotta stick those needles in a very certain way to get the healing effects from it and if you do it wrong it can do serious damage.
 

The Lunatic

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I thought the issue with all this was that she was then berating them and telling them to kill themselves and stuff?


I mean, I don't really give a shit if you've got some weird fetish shit going on.

But, if that gets to the point of emotional abuse, manipulation and telling people to commit suicide, then yeah, that's fucked up.
 

bastardofmelbourne

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You know, ideally we'd have some sort of BDSM license test that you needed to pass before you could sell your services as a dominatrix or whatever. Just to make sure that you're actually competent, and not some random sadist who gets off on the power trip.
 

Gordon_4_v1legacy

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bastardofmelbourne said:
You know, ideally we'd have some sort of BDSM license test that you needed to pass before you could sell your services as a dominatrix or whatever. Just to make sure that you're actually competent, and not some random sadist who gets off on the power trip.
Man, administering that test would be interesting.
 

Michel Henzel

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So it's not cool for me to make the women I meet shave their head, write shit on their bodies, get them to cry and make them want to kill themselves? I thought it was just normal dating practise.
 

FalloutJack

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Well first, I have no idea what you're talking about, so it can't be that important.

And second, this is apparently happening on Twitter, which to me sounds relatively normal.

Therefore, I have to ask...yeah, so?
 

DudeistBelieve

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Gordon_4 said:
bastardofmelbourne said:
You know, ideally we'd have some sort of BDSM license test that you needed to pass before you could sell your services as a dominatrix or whatever. Just to make sure that you're actually competent, and not some random sadist who gets off on the power trip.
Man, administering that test would be interesting.
You see a turtle laying on it's back...

Fieldy409 said:
What? Crazy people on the internet?!? No way!
Are we really that jaded as a society that this isn't worth me sharing the story?

I mean you're not wrong, but I still look at it being like "Thats pretty fucked up, innit?"
 

kurokotetsu

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Well, considering my avatar, my title and some topics that I made and that I'm openly a proudly a DOm, I have a few things to say on this topic.

FIrst THIS GIRL IS NOT A DOMME NOR DOES REPRESENT THE BDSM COMMUNITY. Very simple. Her way of acting, her descriptio, hell her years and all she does is some virtual light humiliation plau (I have yet failed to see when she forced the guy to cry or to shave himself, a coursory glance at her tweets was unsuccesful to put blame on her rather than a codependant "sub") and from what I read of her, she is an idiot teen wih no idea of what it is or how to be a Dom. THis is like calling a bored housewife that reads Gray and posts how she wants to be dominanted a sub, an utterly ridiculous idea to anyone that practices BDSM.

Maybe if she reads, grows and is able to face a sub odown n the ground and really be a Domme to him you can discuss her conduct as something else than an idiot teen with a power fantasy that doesn't o the shit in real life. But right now, I fail to consder her anymore than a girl that knows nothing (not that she can't learn, but her attitude is pretty common in "inertnet Doms" that are just vanilla guys wiht zero idea what they are talking about).

Now for th Off-topic.

Sonmi said:
I think that domination fetishes are unhealthy, though natural. They're pretty much on par with rape fantasies as far as I am concerned.

I honestly question the moral integrity of anyone who takes the position of dom, causing suffering to someone should not be normalized under any case. Things can turn sour too quickly, damage to the sub can be permanent, and in the case of paid doms like the one in the OP, I think it's often a case of people exploiting psychologically unwell individuals for monetary profit, and sometimes for shits and giggles.

I'm all for tolerance of all sexual behaviours and free sexuality, but anything that opens the door for physical or psychological abuse is a big no-no for me.
THank you questioning the moral integruity of myself and all that share my preference and by doing that also questioning the decision of my slave (a beatiful, independant and brilliant woman that I love very much and do not take kindly to any perceived insult agianst her) and showing a complete lack of respect for the poepl that have this preference. Your words are exaclty why I nhad to come out of the closet basically to show I'm not afriad of your clsoed mindness.

If you are against abuse, I do wonder, how many of the cases of domestic abuse in the world are done by BDSM participants? Let's quote a couple of things:

http://ncadv.org/learn-more/statistics

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/23/domestic-violence-statistics_n_5959776.html?

Unless you are willing to say that all those cases of abuse are form BDSM practicioners (or even a majority or disporoporsionate amount) your barometer of "it can turn sour quickly [...] cause permanent damgae" is highly off and biased agianst a community that as quoted by another posetr, when practised seriously have as a mantra to taken things safely. The "suffering" you refer to although not ficticious in the sense that it does indeed hurt, it is alos enjoyed very muh by the submissive part of the equation.

And per the same statistics, I guess you are openly against relationships in general since they "pone the door for physical and psiclogical abuse"...

Also, bieng in a relationship with someone that practised BDSM does not give you a big inside look into what it is, how it is practised or anything else. Again my sub is a bisexual, and I would notclaim to know anything about bisexuality aside form hers and what she tells me.



09philj said:
Sonmi said:
I think that domination fetishes are unhealthy, though natural. They're pretty much on par with rape fantasies as far as I am concerned.

I honestly question the moral integrity of anyone who takes the position of dom, causing suffering to someone should not be normalized under any case. Things can turn sour too quickly, damage to the sub can be permanent, and in the case of paid doms like the one in the OP, I think it's often a case of people exploiting psychologically unwell individuals for monetary profit, and sometimes for shits and giggles.

I'm all for tolerance of all sexual behaviours and free sexuality, but anything that opens the door for physical or psychological abuse is a big no-no for me.
I'll just copy and paste what somebody once said on another forum when the subject came up:
09philj said:
For one, BDSM is done between consenting adults. A sort of guideline for BDSM can be summed up in the phrase 'Safe. Sane. Consensual'. Abuse is all about power and control. While yes, those elements exist in BDSM play, they are not its end goals. Ultimately, the purpose of BDSM is to explore kinks with your partner, and to build trust.

In BDSM play, you have two roles: the Dominant, and the submissive (Their are other names, but this is the basic). Together, they perform a scene (a scenario of sorts), the submissive is typically a masochist, and the Dominant, a sadist. Essentially, the submissive receives pleasure from being spanked, tied up, ordered around, etc -- and the Dominant receives pleasure from doing those and fulfilling the submissive's kinks. It is the responsibility of the Dominant to not only perform these things, but to also ensure their submissive isn't put into any real danger.

Bondage without adequate knowledge can be quite dangerous, it can cause nerve damage, loss of circulation, blood clots, and even death in severe cases. So the Dominant must also be on the watch and learn how to read a submissive's body language. Are they wiggling their fingers? Are they rotating their ankles? etc. These are signs that the ropes (or other medium) are too tight, and are cutting off feeling or circulation.

So where does trust and the power dynamic play into this? It's seen that Dominants in a BDSM D/s relationship have all the power, while this is somewhat true, this power is given voluntarily by the submissive. In a scene, the submissive can stop the scene at any time, there are no ifs, ands, or buts. The Dominant will untie, or do whatever else needed to release the submissive, and the scene will end. This is governed by, what I view should be the most important thing in BDSM play, the safeword. You see, throughout a scene, and within a BDSM relationship, communication is paramount, and there is always communication going on between a Dominant and the submissive, even if it's non-vocal.

Before a scene begins, a safeword will be established, this indicates that, should it be spoken, the scene will end, no exceptions. In cases where vocal communication isn't possible, such as a gag being used, there are other methods such as the submissive holding a set of heavy coins (or other object capable of making a distinct, clear noise) in their hands. If the submissive drops this, the scene ends, no exceptions. This is also where the Dominant's observation, and communication becomes very important.

Because bondage can cause injury, it's imperative that the Dominant watch body language, and assess the submissive constantly during play. Because there is a time within a scene where communication with a submissive stops being possible. This is known as subspace.

Subspace is the moment in a scene, where the submissive undergoes a spike of adrenaline and endorphins that can cause them to enter varying levels of altered psychological states from a feeling of being high, to a trance-like state where communication can be difficult to establish between a submissive and a Dominant. When a submissive enters subspace, the Dominant must quickly end the scene and release them. At which point, they will monitor the submissive carefully and administer Aftercare.

Aftercare is immensely important for a submissive's well-being. Once subspace subsides, a sub will enter what is called a subdrop, this is an endorphin crash where they will feel weakened, fatigued, and may have difficulty concentrating. A Dominant will care for the submissive, have them drink water, and eat, and provide close contact such as cuddling. They will also discuss the scene, what they liked, what they disliked, if they should try something again or how to do something differently. Without aftercare, a submissive can develop flue-like symptoms, and become depressed. Aftercare solidifies the emotional bond between a Dominant and submissive, and strengthens the trust within the relationship.

And that's all BDSM is, it's a relationship built on a very strong emotional bond, and immense trust between two consenting adults. Because of the stakes within such a dynamic, not communicating isn't an option, doing so can lead to injury or worse. Knowing this as a submissive and a Dominant is extremely important for both of their safety and well-being. I like to argue that BDSM relationships are much more open than regular relationships thanks to this policy, because it's dependent on being very open with your partner to ensure that your emotional and physical needs are met.

Community-wise, the BDSM community is also very open, and most are more than willing to help people interested. There are BDSM clubs, munches (a lunch where practitioners meet up), and conventions. There's tons, and I mean TONS of information online, including several official wikis and forums loaded with information that is helpful and people willing to help out those interested.

That said, having explained these things, there are people within the community to watch out for, because there is always that one. And I feel it irresponsible of me not to give out a fair warning.

Generally, avoid people that call themselves Master/Mistress. These titles are earned, and anyone bragging about their title needs to be avoided greatly. The reason is, at least in typical BDSM culture, is that Master/Mistress is a title given to someone who is very, very experienced and well knowledgeable in BDSM by others in the community.

Secondly, avoid people who say they don't do Aftercare, or that it's not important. Or that they don't do safewords. This is a massive red flag for someone who isn't interested in your safety, nor health, and can be a quick road to injury or a really, really bad situation.

Thirdly, avoid coercion. BDSM is about openness and exploring kinks together. You do not have to do anything, and should not do anything outside of your comfort zone.

These types of people are watched out for in the community, and other members will have no issue informing you of who to avoid.

The only other thing left I can think of to talk about is collars. Collars have a special significance in BDSM culture, and it's important to know how they work and what they mean. A collar is a device that the submissive wears around the neck, they come in many varieties, and many styles, and have many functions. There are also two types of collars: a typical collar, and a play-collar. In the typical culture of BDSM, a collar signifies the absolute trust and strength of a bond shared between a Dominant and their submissive.

Do note, that being collared is a voluntary process where the submissive is giving up their power to their Dominant. This is extensively discussed beforehand to determine if that's where both the D/s want their relationship to go, and must be mutually agreed upon. Do not let anyone try and convince you otherwise.

As such, it's significance has a similar weight to an engagement ring for many couples, or a statement that this submissive is 'owned' (collared) and in a relationship with their Dominant. When a submissive wears a collar, it is usually given to them by their Dominant, and only the Dominant is allowed to remove the collar (barring cases such as medical emergencies).

It's important to know that you shouldn't touch or mess with the collar of a submissive who belongs to another Dominant. Collaring a submissive may have certain rituals and traditions associated with it, and generally a Dominant may lay down a series of rules for a submissive who has been collared (breaking of these rules results in punishment for the submissive as an example, and a submissive may willingly try and break the rules to get punished).

The other type of collar is a play-collar. These are also worn around the neck, but are temporary and used in a particular scene. Often, they are fastened to a rope or chain, a lead, and allow the Dominant to lead their submissive around. Once the scene has finished, they are removed.

Finally, as I pointed out in another post. Ask, ask, ask. I cannot stress this enough. If you don't know something, ask. It's really for your well-being, and we'd all rather you have fun, and do so in a healthy, and safe manner. This is especially important for Dominants. Because you will be responsible for the well-being of a submissive, and are also exploring things yourself, it's important you ask and try to learn as much as you can.

My rule of thumb is: If you're not sure, don't do it. There's also nothing wrong with a Dominant playing a submissive to learn. Trust me, no one's going to think anything less of you, the community isn't one to judge.

So, remember. Safe. Sane. Consensual. This is what separates BDSM from abuse. The former is all about the bond, the trust, and the exploration. The latter cares nothing for that.
Interesting post by you friedn. I do agree with a lot, but I think it is still is a generalization and a lot of subtleties are lsot in it. ANd I do not agree with the idea of the community defning what a name implies for someone. I am a Master to my sub, but I would not claim a huge expertise in a lot of areas of BDSm nor try to teach it, but it is what I am to her and trying o take her way of calling me to a community is not appriciated. But it was a really nice post and a good defense of BDSM. Thanks

DudeistBelieve said:
Sonmi said:
Happyninja42 said:
Sonmi said:
09philj said:
The woman in the OP is a sociopath.
But she and her clients would still claim their relationship is completely "consensual", which leads back to my point about people in those circumstances potentially being unable to distinguish an abusive relationship from one that is healthy.

I know there are for whom this kind of kink works, yet I still believe it's too open to abuse, and should not be normalized. As one who used to engage in self-harm when I was at the lowest of my lows, it think it there is always a better alternative, even if at the moment getting whipped is the only way to get your rocks off.
I'm not into BDSM myself, but I know many people who are, and I doubt they would disagree that what is being shown on this clip, isn't a healthy BDSM relationship. There is a lot of trust and agreement in a healthy BDSM, and it's not just one person berating the other because they feel they deserve it. And they will frequently tell you that the roles have a time and place, and aren't a 24/7 kind of thing (for most of them). So I wouldn't really use this woman as a barometer for what is the common/standard form of BDSM, or what should be emulated by others. She's most likely what would be considered an outlier in her behavior.
Of course this woman isn't the standard, but she represents a nasty reality of the whole kink: the inability of the far-gone to properly consent. The individuals she's taking advantage of are hurting, they are clearly not well, and that kind of behaviour can cause a lot of damage to one's psyche, even moreso if repeatedly.
Pretty much this.

This isn't a Woman abusing men, how delightfully absurd story! to me. This is a... group of consenting adults not properly understanding what they are willfully consenting to, story. A trusting the wrong individual because you so desperately desire the rush story.

I mean a person on video crying over tweeting the opposite gender, that's friggin' extreme no?
This is not a nasty reality of the kink, it is not representative in anyway and the problems of consent are far greater that a silly internet DOmme.

If you wish to discuss the problems of consent, why focus on a stupid teen with a fetish? How a bout ses, rape and pregnancies statistics in where drugs/alcohol were involved, as it involves a lot of "consenting adults" doing something stupid, and being "trusting the wrong individuals". Or the intimate abuse that far more amount of vanilla victims suffer at the hands of intimate partners or family members that has a lot more of permant and serious consequences? Just asking because a lot of thise also involve "consenting adults" and a lot of times not understanding what they are consenting to.

ANd a codependant man, crying over an internet woman, with no to litle inout from her, seems more a thing to regret, but it is far form extreme or newsworthy.

ANd I think I said most of what I wanted to.
 

Thaluikhain

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kurokotetsu said:
This is not a nasty reality of the kink, it is not representative in anyway and the problems of consent are far greater that a silly internet DOmme.

If you wish to discuss the problems of consent, why focus on a stupid teen with a fetish? How a bout ses, rape and pregnancies statistics in where drugs/alcohol were involved, as it involves a lot of "consenting adults" doing something stupid, and being "trusting the wrong individuals". Or the intimate abuse that far more amount of vanilla victims suffer at the hands of intimate partners or family members that has a lot more of permant and serious consequences? Just asking because a lot of thise also involve "consenting adults" and a lot of times not understanding what they are consenting to.
Yes and no. On the one hand, yes, there's a massive amount of problems with the way our society views vanilla relationships, and there is plenty of abuse going on that very many people refuse to acknowledge.

On the other hand, that doesn't mean the BDSM community can dismiss or ignore the problem just because vanilla tends to. It might be unfair to say that BDSM is inherently worse, but it's wrong to say that the problems aren't there.
 

kurokotetsu

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Thaluikhain said:
kurokotetsu said:
This is not a nasty reality of the kink, it is not representative in anyway and the problems of consent are far greater that a silly internet DOmme.

If you wish to discuss the problems of consent, why focus on a stupid teen with a fetish? How a bout ses, rape and pregnancies statistics in where drugs/alcohol were involved, as it involves a lot of "consenting adults" doing something stupid, and being "trusting the wrong individuals". Or the intimate abuse that far more amount of vanilla victims suffer at the hands of intimate partners or family members that has a lot more of permant and serious consequences? Just asking because a lot of thise also involve "consenting adults" and a lot of times not understanding what they are consenting to.
Yes and no. On the one hand, yes, there's a massive amount of problems with the way our society views vanilla relationships, and there is plenty of abuse going on that very many people refuse to acknowledge.

On the other hand, that doesn't mean the BDSM community can dismiss or ignore the problem just because vanilla tends to. It might be unfair to say that BDSM is inherently worse, but it's wrong to say that the problems aren't there.
Oh I agree with that. THere are dangers and problems, and of course there is potential for abuse in BDMS relationships. AS a Dom I'm always very concious of the responsabilities, the daners and teh well being of my sub, and encourage anyone into BDSM to be very careful, read, talk and look for help. I am not saying that BDSM is perfect and vanillas suck. But this thing here is a big thing. It is a wierd internet relation that involves a teenager with no idea of what being a Domme is.

And also I do resent a lot the implication that BDSM is inherently worse. WHich is why I was "lashing out". I will never say that there are no dangers to be BDSM, even being careful but hell, this thing here is miniscule and there are far worse things more deserving of attention within the same "consenting adults not understanding what they do" than a stupid internet story that we only shows a codependant man and a teenager that doesn't know what she is doing.
 

Lieju

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DudeistBelieve said:
It all appears consenual by definition, after all it's all over internet/Skype.
I wouldn't say that just because it all happens on the net there can't be any consent issues. You can still involve people in sexual things they didn't consent to over the net, like harassing people with sexually explicit messages, emotionally manipulate them into things, coerce them in other ways etc.
 

Cap'nPipsqueak

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DudeistBelieve said:
Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you the first news story covered by one Philip Defranco this morning...


So basically theres this girl on Twitter named hannah (You can find her by searching "Poison Ivy Hannah") that seemingly has... these... I won't say weird, I'll say disturbing femdom like relationships with dudes. It all appears consenual by definition, after all it's all over internet/Skype.

But these guys are writing her name on their forehead. This one guy is crying because he TWEETED at a another girl... Then she made this other one shave his head and eyebrows off.

Now I'm not gonna judge others for what get their jollies off. It's a whole big world out there, ya know? But what I find disturbing is... from what little I know about this kind of relationship (having never experienced it first hand myself) is that when you're opening yourself up to get willfully get hurt by another person for pleasure theres like... Huge lines and boundaries the dom has to respect, and I think theres even some sort of expectation that after the fact the Dom has to ease the sub back into reality?

Cause it's like... regardless of if it's fantasy or not, or if it's desired behavior.... it's still abuse. If it's done incorrectly it can't seriously fuck with people.

Couple this with this girl tweeting about the romantic implications of Suicide.... kinda fucked no?

What ahhhh, what is your take on this Escapist? I went ahead and browsed her Twitter account and it's... Kinda disturbing. I'm getting a huge predatory vibe off this chick.
It's Twitter. Who cares?