So what do we call actual homophobia?

[Nimzabaat]

So what do we call actual homophobia?

I really want to say "Adopted", but I won't because this is a christian forum.

Since when?

Well it's not so much actual homophobes being called homophobic. It's more that if they feel they could be shamed for being homophobic, they're more likely to keep quiet about it and not work on managing their fear. I just found the phrase "you're not scared, you're an asshole" to be just as dismissive and ignorant as "you're not gay, you're confused".

Well not really, the first phrase if very often accurate while the second phrase is very rarely, if ever, true. That said they both come from the same place - gut instinct as opposed to any logical reasoning. You could argue the same thing happens with pedophilia. Perhaps if people didn't have such a violently negative response to it then more people would come forward seeking help/ treatment.

If it actually read as "you're not homophobic, you're an asshole", then that would be accurate and I would have no issue with it. That's a good point about pedophilia though, it seems that we try to un-demonize some things by demonizing others.

 

[Nimzabaat]

I actually know a guy that has "actual homophobia"

So here's a little story I was out at the bar with a bunch of dudes from work and a few of us broke off from the main group and went to a smaller bar across the street I bumped into an old friend I hadn't seen in years there and we were catching up when these two very flamboyant gay guys walked in and they just grabbed a table near the back and were just minding their own business. then my friend that I came to the bar with came up to me very visibly freaked out and was like "dude we have to leave" I picked up on what was bothering him because he kept nervously looking over at the two men so I was like "relax man their just minding their own business over there its not a big deal" and then he was like "screw you then im outta here" I guess he went back to the first bar we had gone to but all the people we had gone there with had already left because he came back a few minutes latter and literally pleaded with me to leave with him like he looked like he was about to break down and cry which was super out of character for this guy so we left. I confronted him about it the next day and he said that he doesn't hate gay people or anything and he understands that his feelings are completely irrational but he just can't be around them.

TLR I have a friend that almost broke down in tears just from being in the same room as two gay men

Thank's for the story. That's an excellent example of phobia as opposed to bigotry. Phobia "i have to leave" vs bigotry "they have to leave". In time your friend may even be able to manage his phobia.

This is your private definition of the suffix "Phobia", and the word "Bigotry", but you do understand that's not what they actually mean, right?

I think "phobia" means this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phobia

And I think "bigotry" means this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigotry

But I have been known to be wrong in the past.

Wikipedia as a source for definitions of words is a bizarre choice. Lets take a look at a more commonly accepted source, the OED.

Bigotry
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/bigotry

Intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself

-Phobia (the suffix remember)
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/-phobia

Extreme or irrational fear or dislike of a specified thing or group

There is no debate to be had over the definition of these words. Do you have anything to offer on the basis of the reality of what they actually mean?

I'd say we're arguing semantics, but that's not the case. The way I used them in my example fits both sources. So, i'm a little stumped in what you're trying to say. What do you think those words mean? Since apparently neither of those sources fits your understanding.

Don't get upset because your attempt to pretend that there is a psychological condition- a "Phobia" which exists and sufferers of which are persecuted as a result of the common use of the term- has failed. There is no such recognized condition. So if you knew the definition of "-Phobia" in this context, and presumably know that there is no recognized "Homophobia" in medicine or psychology, what was the point of all of this?

If you're not trying to argue semantics, or failed to understand in the first place, what ARE you doing?

Lets see.

That's an excellent example of phobia as opposed to bigotry. Phobia "i have to leave" vs bigotry "they have to leave". In time your friend may even be able to manage his phobia.

Well lets see, is that true? No. Phobia in this case is a DISLIKE, not "I have to leave". You can want to make THEM leave in that context. Bigotry by contrast, may be at the root of that, or not as the case may be. Bigotry has to do with views and opinions, and intolerance of them. -Phobia has to do with people and groups, and a dislike/aversion to them. So either your understanding of the words have changed since then, or you're not being totally straightforward with me right now.

You can't have it both ways.

So you're saying homophobia doesn't exist? So why not strike the word from the English language? If there's no such thing why do people use it so often?

The point I was trying to make is that homophobia is a real phobia. It is a diagnosed condition, it's in the dictionary. Did you even read the links you sent? However, we're using that word to describe people who are bigoted against homosexuals and not people who suffer from homophobia. Phobia does not equal bigotry. That was the point of this thread.

 

[FalloutJack]

Snip

Actually, this picture is inaccurate. There IS homophobia and there ARE people afraid they'll 'catch the gay', but there are also assholes who just hate homosexuals. Also, there is some overlap and a liberal portion of stupidity dousing it all like gravy.

 

[Super Cyborg]

Not exactly what I was expecting this thread to be about (thought it was going to be what kind of behaviors make someone Homophobic).

Someone pointed this out to me in another thread, and that's words can change meaning overtime or not go with root words. Phobia may usually mean fear, but you can have words with certain roots but not use those definitions with the word. I don't know how, but Homophobia has mostly become a word to blanket most people against Homosexuals, and is meant to have heavy negative connotations. I think bigot is a much better word overall, but that's usually more broad where Homophobe is for an exact type of discrimination.

Either way, the term Homophobe is fine in itself. Being scared can lead to hate in some way, so it is apt in some way. This feels like arguing against something very minute.

 

[freaper]

I actually know a guy that has "actual homophobia"

So here's a little story I was out at the bar with a bunch of dudes from work and a few of us broke off from the main group and went to a smaller bar across the street I bumped into an old friend I hadn't seen in years there and we were catching up when these two very flamboyant gay guys walked in and they just grabbed a table near the back and were just minding their own business. then my friend that I came to the bar with came up to me very visibly freaked out and was like "dude we have to leave" I picked up on what was bothering him because he kept nervously looking over at the two men so I was like "relax man their just minding their own business over there its not a big deal" and then he was like "screw you then im outta here" I guess he went back to the first bar we had gone to but all the people we had gone there with had already left because he came back a few minutes latter and literally pleaded with me to leave with him like he looked like he was about to break down and cry which was super out of character for this guy so we left. I confronted him about it the next day and he said that he doesn't hate gay people or anything and he understands that his feelings are completely irrational but he just can't be around them.

TLR I have a friend that almost broke down in tears just from being in the same room as two gay men

Hey, I went to the store and got you some of these (,,..,,,,..,,,,::. I hope you'll be able to use those in the future.

OT: How much of that phobia is psychological, and how much of it is cultural? I'm completely for equal rights across the board, but I still get that gut feeling of aversion when I see two dudes make out -I even get that when a heterosexual couple is making out in front of me, so whatever. That's a me problem, but I'm very open to the possibility that younger generations won't have that, growing up in a society where public displays of affection between gay couples isn't weird.

 

[veloper]

That's cuz "phobia" is an old word.

In the good old days, a homo was a big, fat, hairy man in black leather pants, lurking in dark alleyways. None of this modern pink fairy shit, but the real hard gay stuff.

Yeah, they could be scary...

 

[Terminal Blue]

Seriously, what is with this thread?

Homophobia is not an actual phobic disorder, it's a casual description of the most commonly understood theoretical mechanism behind the relatively extreme reaction many people seem to have to homosexuality.

Unlike people of different races, gay people do not have distinguishing physical features. They could be anyone, which means they could be you. That is the fear, it's not the gay person out there, it's the fear of not really being who you think you are, and the constant intrusive realization that all you'd need to do is stick your dick in another man and suddenly everything you thought you knew about yourself would be meaningless. It's the relative permeability of that line and the consequent instability of ever being truly, definitively heterosexual, because you can't be truly, definitively heterosexual until you've died, all it takes is one slip, one wrong thought, one confusing dream and you stop being the definitive heterosexual that you think you are.

Homophobia does not manifest visibly as fear symptoms, although it may manifest as extreme disgust or anxiety, it manifests as a dislike or hatred. It is, however, a compulsive hatred, it's a hatred which stems from the desire to protect the psyche from its own inability to guaruntee its own heterosexuality. It manifests in the need to symbolically punish or reject people who embody the potential for homosexuality which makes the homophobe uncomfortable.

However "rational" homophobes think they are, there is still the underlying question of why they pick the targets they do, and what produces the fundamental need to structure the world in the way that they do. Even today, we have no problem employing this kind of pseudo-medical thinking in the case of homosexuality itself, we constantly look for "causes" outside of culture for why gay people should exist. Why should we do less for anyone else? Why should we assume that "I hate gays" is less prone to medicalization, as a statement, than "I like boys (or girls)".

 

[Nimzabaat]

Snip

Actually, this picture is inaccurate. There IS homophobia and there ARE people afraid they'll 'catch the gay', but there are also assholes who just hate homosexuals. Also, there is some overlap and a liberal portion of stupidity dousing it all like gravy.

That was the point of the text that I put in after the picture...

So we have a bunch of people here that are in complete denial that homophobia is an actual phobia, and a number of people who know that it is very real. Honestly, I was hoping for a better response but at least my question has been answered.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Phobia can mean more than just fear.

This seems like people trying to game a definition.

Aren't 90% of these threads dedicated to arguing over terminology anyway?

 

[Pseudonym]

Snip

This reads as a hypothesis to explain why some people might have a dislike or fear or discust of homosexuality. Possibly a good explanation in some cases but whenever I hear the word 'homophobia' used it is used a lot broader than that and it just means 'bigotry against gay people'. It may also very well be the case that your explanation was the original meaning of the word 'homophobe' but when I hear the word these days, the speaker ussually means 'bigotry against gay people.'

 

[FalloutJack]

Snip

Actually, this picture is inaccurate. There IS homophobia and there ARE people afraid they'll 'catch the gay', but there are also assholes who just hate homosexuals. Also, there is some overlap and a liberal portion of stupidity dousing it all like gravy.

That was the point of the text that I put in after the picture...

So we have a bunch of people here that are in complete denial that homophobia is an actual phobia, and a number of people who know that it is very real. Honestly, I was hoping for a better response but at least my question has been answered.

There wasn't much I could do with it. We don't need more words for this, just the right use of the ones we've got.

 

[Xan Krieger]

I'm one of those people who loves gay people but doesn't believe in gay marriage because it doesn't make any logical sense to me and never will. I still treat everyone with respect and I think that's why I get along with pro-gay marriage people. We accept that there's more to someone than whether or not you agree with them on an issue.

That said I think that word is used most often as a cheap insult like the word "bigot".

 

[Xan Krieger]

I'm one of those people who loves gay people but doesn't believe in gay marriage because it doesn't make any logical sense to me and never will. I still treat everyone with respect and I think that's why I get along with pro-gay marriage people. We accept that there's more to someone than whether or not you agree with them on an issue.

That said I think that word is used most often as a cheap insult like the word "bigot".

What's your logical argument against gay marriage then?

Since marriage is one man and one woman then gay marriage is illogical. Hence I wish for civil unions for everyone. I know not everyone shares that logic since everyone has a different definition of marriage but to me it'll never make sense.