So......what exactly happens if the US can't raise the debt ceiling?

[icame]

Well, what happens to people when they can't pay their debt?
Probably that, but a lot worse.

Didn't Greece default? Think it did, if not then feel free to correct. But I know it got so bad it threatened to crash the economy of pretty much all EU members. Or something like that, I'm not exactly well versed in European economics.

Honestly, what needs to happen is for us to stop spending so damn much on so many things at once. A good place to start would be to pull troops back. That'd definitely save quite the pretty penny.

Also, it's not really much of a ceiling if you keep fucking raising it.

I honestly think the US needs to do what it did when the depression hit way back when. Internalize. We pour so much money all around the world to support so many other countries/people while we're collapsing. Pull everything back to home, close off the doors to immigration (or hinder them immensely), and fix the problems at home before looking towards the outside world, heft the burden of being the world's big brother to someone else.
If the US did this 15 or so years down the line they'd be making a fairly good comeback.
The only problem with this is that a lot of people outside the US would get royally screwed.

I recently watched that whole thing where obama answered questions from Twitter and I think he said only something like 2% of all spending is on foreign aid, and yet it makes such a difference in the world, so I think its probably worth it.

 

[stefanbertramlee]

Just wondering does anyone have any figures for total amount of $ in circulation worldwide and current yearly deficet. Just to see what damage short term printing would do to the dollars value.

'All told, anyone looking for all of the U.S. dollars in the world in July 2009 could expect to find around $8.3 trillion in existence.'

The US owes over 14.2 trillion.

So...uh...apparently the US owes more money than exists. I imagine that's pretty frickkin' hard to do.

That is quite impressive but the yearly deficet is around $800 billion, no?

So even with no cuts and no tax rises (which isn't going to happen)it would be 10 years before the US currencey would halve in value, still not the end times, unless I'm missing something major which I probally am (i.e sale of securities)

So even in the worst case secnario things arn't that bad.

I imagine worst case scenario would be that the US ends up like post WW1 Germany or Zimbabwe.

If I recall correctly, it took over a million Marks just to buy a single loaf of bread. And Zimbabwe's currency became so devalued due to hyperinflation that the material the money was made of was actually worth more than the money was and the government was forced to outlaw their own currency.

Won't that be super fun? Especially because hyperinflation could happen very soon. There was a post on the first page that explains it in much greater detail than I could manage.

Hmm it depends Weiamar Germany only went to fuck becasue France decided the currency was worthless and the occupied the Industiral zones so they had nothing to sell either which just fuck everthing.

 

[superstringz]

Because the air force has $600 toilets and $200 pliers.

EDIT:
I know, its the black budget, but seriously, what are we buying with that? A computer that can play Crysis?

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

I recently watched that whole thing where obama answered questions from Twitter and I think he said only something like 2% of all spending is on foreign aid, and yet it makes such a difference in the world, so I think its probably worth it.

You have to question weather that 2% couldn't be better spend over here though.

OT: I have no idea what will happen. I don't know if this has ever happened before in the states.

To resolve this, we need to either pay for the war, or stop it. And cut most spending down. And, as much as the Libertarian that is me loathes to say it, we need to raise taxes as well. We can only cut so much.

The best compromise is one where NO ONE is happy.

 

[stefanbertramlee]

Because the air force has $600 toilets and $200 pliers.

EDIT:
I know, its the black budget, but seriously, what are we buying with that? A computer that can play Crysis?

Its probally Shooting-brown-people-in-the-face-which-we-can't-kill-openly money.

 

[cookyy2k]

The problem is people become entitled in the good times and refuse any cuts in the bad.

Prime exapmple is leisure centre near me offered free everything payed for by the council, be it swimming, gym or various lessons and groups. When the cuts hit the council couldn't afford this so it introduces a £1.75 charge on most things, next day group of parents on tv moaning their kids couldn't do ballet/karate anymore because the council wont let them, they may have told their kids this but in reality the council would, the parents would just have to you know pay for their kids (shock horror).

So the council caves to the pressure from the local paper and says ok you can have leisure for free again but we can't pay to mow the grass on the road embankments and central reservations.

Guess what, the local paper has a campaign aimed at getting the regualr grass cutting resumed and since we're coming up to a by election resuming the grass cutting is the main issue... so that will be resumed soon. The party saying yeah sure we'll resume it will win since it's the only issue anyone seems to care about and the local media are maing like they're the second coming while all the other candidates are satan crossed with Hitler. Only for them to have to cut something else and the papers go on about how awful they are. Then more "protests" outside the town hall, that turn into riots, that make a mess and damage stuff that has to be payed for... by the council.

 

[Sunder845]

Today I discovered that in the event of a government shutdown my G.I. Bill benefits wont be paid, so unfortunately I wont be able to attend college this semester as planned.

I have to wonder, if my VA benefits are denied; what about the people who really need it for disability or whatnot?

Edit:
This semester = this upcoming semester

 

[dj Facchiano]

I'm no economist, but I'm pretty sure not raising the debt ceiling would be a whole lot worse than not raising it. The government raised the debt ceiling countless times, as much as ten times in the last decade, and the country hasn't gone to the post-apocalyptic socialist regime that some of the conservative members think raising the debt ceiling will result in.

As far as I know America's only option is to raise the debt ceiling and then raise taxes. I think my fellow Americans fear the word tax, and I'm no fan of taxes either, but it's what we need to do. I'm sure that the politicians who want no new taxes would never try to put a stop to social security, you can't have your cake and eat it too Washington.

I would have to disagree, Raising taxes wouldn't fix anything, the government will keep doing everything that's its doing wrong as long as it keeps getting the funds to do so. Instead of just raising taxes maybe they should learn to manage the money the people of our country have already gave them. Also, I'm not much of an economist either but I do know that too high taxes often can have a negative effect on the economy of the state that they've been put into effect in do to small businesses that are still forming to leave for other states that have lower taxes, of which is really bad form the economy of said state, (Cough, California, Cough)

 

[commodore96]

There would be a whole domino effect from hell. We just need to cut the crap out of spending and lower taxes.

 

[commodore96]

Today I discovered that in the event of a government shutdown my G.I. Bill benefits wont be paid, so unfortunately I wont be able to attend college this semester as planned.

I have to wonder, if my VA benefits are denied; what about the people who really need it for disability or whatnot?

Edit:
This semester = this upcoming semester

I'm all for cutting government spending but that is one thing that should be paid. I always thought the GI bill was the governments way of saying thanks for almost getting killed to protect your fellow citizens.

 

[RDubayoo]

So what'll happen if we can't raise the debt ceiling? The Democrats will throw a hissy fit that their outrageous spending habits are being hampered, and pretty much nothing else.

"But what about defaulting on our debt!?"

How? There's really nothing we can't cut from the budget in order to avoid that? Don't believe it for a second, folks. And anyway, raising the debt ceiling isn't going to avoid an economic apocalypse because Barack Obama will just spend those extra few trillion dollars as fast as he can, and we'll be right back to square one... except it will be even harder to pay off that debt than it was before.

 

[Norendithas]

Well, what happens to people when they can't pay their debt?
Probably that, but a lot worse.

Didn't Greece default? Think it did, if not then feel free to correct. But I know it got so bad it threatened to crash the economy of pretty much all EU members. Or something like that, I'm not exactly well versed in European economics.

Honestly, what needs to happen is for us to stop spending so damn much on so many things at once. A good place to start would be to pull troops back. That'd definitely save quite the pretty penny.

Also, it's not really much of a ceiling if you keep fucking raising it.

I honestly think the US needs to do what it did when the depression hit way back when. Internalize. We pour so much money all around the world to support so many other countries/people while we're collapsing. Pull everything back to home, close off the doors to immigration (or hinder them immensely), and fix the problems at home before looking towards the outside world, heft the burden of being the world's big brother to someone else.
If the US did this 15 or so years down the line they'd be making a fairly good comeback.
The only problem with this is that a lot of people outside the US would get royally screwed.

Very true. Doesn't sound to bad to me, but then again I am no expert. Besides, we have so many issues at home, like infrastructure. The only problem with closing down borders that I think anyone would bring up is pretty much all our farming is done by immigrants, and cutting them off from the US might cause issues.

 

[ckam]

Removal of states in general would get rid of the ceiling. Just saying.

 

[triggrhappy94]

Do you remember how like last year a ton of people got evicted from their house by banks?
... well basically that...

 

[Bob Hoss]

The real question is: why did they get into so much debt in the first place?

Because the gov't has decided to borrow money from other places rather than just tax the wealthy a bit more than they are. Since they borrow more and more from other places and never pay it back, they just keep taking out more loans so they don't have to.

If you want more detail i can give it to you, or you can just look up things on Reaganomics.

 

[Kopikatsu]

The real question is: why did they get into so much debt in the first place?

Because the gov't has decided to borrow money from other places rather than just tax the wealthy a bit more than they are. Since they borrow more and more from other places and never pay it back, they just keep taking out more loans so they don't have to.

If you want more detail i can give it to you, or you can just look up things on Reaganomics.

The official numbers stated that heavily taxing the wealthy would only gather about 500 billion. The debt is over 14.2 trillion. 500 billion is barely a dent.

Besides, wasn't the American Dream 'You can go from being a nobody busboy to filthy rich CEO'? (Paraphrasing). It seems strange that success is considered the most important thing in America, but people hate those that are successful.

 

[neonsword13-ops]

Well... We're screwed. ^-^

 

[Jake0fTrades]

What difference does it make? Either way we're in debt by 14.3 trillion and rising, if we raise the debt ceiling, aren't we just putting off changes we'll inevitably have to do, or face potential collapse?

 

[Frostbite3789]

Well. Time to invest in a shotgun and a patch of the future wasteland that I can defend with said shotgun. Who is with me?

http://xfinitytv.comcast.net/blogs/2011/lifestyle/restaurant-bans-kids-younger-than-6-years-old/?cmpid=FCST_hero_hot

what do you think? personally i think its a great idea as whenever im eating some little brat starts crying and ruining my dining experience because they cant have ice cream. and the parents? "not my kid doing that". one time a kid tried to take food from my plate, the parents? not giving a flying fuck

personally, i hope more restraunts enforce this rule and when parents complain? they have noone to blame but themselves.

and if i have kids i leave them at home with a sitter instead of ruining it for everyone else

Yeah, because Democrats are the only ones who spend money. Is it possible for a member of one party to talk anything even slightly political without blaming the other party? They're the same damn candy bar in a different wrapper. The sooner you realize this, the better.

 

[Vykrel]

whaddaya mean cant? theyll probably raise the debt ceiling every time they hit it.