So what if I pirate games, why should you care?

[Lexodus]

I've only ever pirated one game, and that was a game that isn't available in my country, or for my system (it was a crack which had been modified so I could use it). This, to me, seems somewhat bad, but there was no way for me to legally acquire it and therefore it in a form that I could use and couldn't possibly have been a sale, ergo, no harm, no foul.

 

[Zannah]

Because people jump on any ever so shaky soap box, and because they blame pirates for all the shit the publishers pull, harassing legal customers, not stopping piracy.

 

[OblivionFenix]

Okay, let's look at it this way:
I walk over to my friends house. He's got a new game, so I'll ask if I can try it out...

Option 1: After playing a while I decide to buy the game and own it myself.

Option 2: After playing a while I decide this isn't worth my money.

And the other way:
I find some random torrent side and download a game...

Option 1: After playing a while I decide to buy the game and own it myself.

Option 2: After playing a while I decide this game is utter shit and isn't worth my money.

What's the damn difference?

I can't believe none of you haven't tried a friends game and decided to buy it or drop it.

Third Option is my way: I don't care what people do... You want to pirate a game? Go for it...
I wouldn't have bought 90% of my games If I hadn't downloaded and tested it first..


Rant over...

Problem is your use of piracy isnt what most people use it for. Sure using piracy as a means of a game 'demo' is pefectly fine in my eyes. But the thing about demos is there are restrictions on them in both content and play time. People dont pirate to test games they pirate to get games they cant be bothered paying for.

Yeah, I know.
But! There are people like me out there who pirate to test a game and then buy, like testing a game at a friends house...
What I do hate is people that ***** about piracy and lumping all pirates together as scum of the earth...
Not every pirate out there is a idiot who pirates only because he can...

I agree not all pirates are douchebags but I believe you are the minority not the norm. And the minority use of piracy is completely justifiable in my mind simply because not all developers release demos like they damn well should. But the majority use of piracy is unjustifiable.

 

[pokepuke]

Digital piracy deters crime.

Society is safer because of the internet. These days, if you want to play a game and might not have the money or normal means to get it, you can try to find ways to play it through getting a copy online. No longer do you resort to theft as a viable option. And if you find can't play the game, then you might move on to another game you can play for free. No more stealing from stores and potentially ruining lives over petty crime.

 

[OutforEC]

I agree not all pirates are douchebags but I believe you are the minority not the norm. And the minority use of piracy is completely justifiable in my mind simply because not all developers release demos like they damn well should. But the majority use of piracy is unjustifiable.

Why do you think that it is the consumer's 'right' to demand a demo of a developer? Obviously some developers give that option, but ultimately it is up to the developers to determine whether they want to offer one. The only thing the consumer should have power over is deciding whether they want to play a game or not, and if they do, purchasing it.

 

[OutforEC]

Digital piracy deters crime.

Society is safer because of the internet. These days, if you want to play a game and might not have the money or normal means to get it, you can try to find ways to play it through getting a copy online. No longer do you resort to theft as a viable option. And if you find can't play the game, then you might move on to another game you can play for free. No more stealing from stores and potentially ruining lives over petty crime.

The issue is that the other 'viable option', not having an overinflated sense of entitlement and simply not playing the game, doesn't seem to occur to them.

 

[pokepuke]

The issue is that the other 'viable option', not having an overinflated sense of entitlement and simply not playing the game, doesn't seem to occur to them.

And why should it? Why do you assume it is an entitlement thing? People choose from the options readily available to them, and the foremost goal is to find a way to play the game. At no point do the morality cops come into play and preemptively show you the legitimate harm that your choices are going to cause. That is, maybe not until some such as yourself comes along and browbeats his opinions and viewpoints into the person.

 

[OutforEC]

the foremost goal is to find a way to play the game.

This right here is the problem. If someone's foremost goal is to play a game, there are deeper issues with that person than just piracy. It isn't like someone stealing food to feed their family, or killing someone in self-defense, both of which are more justifiable than unnecessarily depriving someone of the fruits of their labors in the name of entertainment. This is just someone feeling that their desire to play a game trumps the rules that society has set up in order for smoother operation. It isn't an assumption that it's a self-entitlement thing, it is a self-entitlement thing, and the more the pirates try to justify it, the more they come off as self-centered douchebags.

 

[OblivionFenix]

I agree not all pirates are douchebags but I believe you are the minority not the norm. And the minority use of piracy is completely justifiable in my mind simply because not all developers release demos like they damn well should. But the majority use of piracy is unjustifiable.

Why do you think that it is the consumer's 'right' to demand a demo of a developer? Obviously some developers give that option, but ultimately it is up to the developers to determine whether they want to offer one. The only thing the consumer should have power over is deciding whether they want to play a game or not, and if they do, purchasing it.

I don't see any reason why they shouldn't release demos of all games. That way there would be no justification for piracy because we'd all be able to try before buying. Plus there are a lot of games out there that i don't buy simply because i cant test it legally. If demos of all games were released they'd be making a lot more money off me and a lot of other consumers I'm sure.

 

[Innegativeion]

says who? who says NO ONE paid for the game in the first place? it had to come from somewhere didn't it?

I think you misunderstand what it is to "pirate" something.

 

[Azaraxzealot]

says who? who says NO ONE paid for the game in the first place? it had to come from somewhere didn't it?

I think you misunderstand what it is to "pirate" something.

it's downloading something that someone else who bought the game cracked and put into one big file on the internet, yes?

 

[Sikachu]

You still have something you didn't pay for. No matter how you justify it, you are stealing, even if it actually is a good reason. It's theft.

So by your ignorant definition of stealing, I stole every gift I've ever received, every tree I've ever found, everything my parents gave me, everything that came with compliments at a hotel or restaurant.

 

[ManWithHat]

You still have something you didn't pay for. No matter how you justify it, you are stealing, even if it actually is a good reason. It's theft.

So by your ignorant definition of stealing, I stole every gift I've ever received, every tree I've ever found, everything my parents gave me, everything that came with compliments at a hotel or restaurant.

So by your ignorant interpretation of what I was trying to say, you missed that I was referring to piracy and obtaining games/software illegally through improper channels. I was speaking nothing of gifts, complementaries, etc. I posted a bit on my views on piracy on this thread about said topic. I can only assume you misinterpreted me on purpose. If not, then pay attention.

Sure, you make anyone look like the bad guy when you take what he says out of context.

 

[Innegativeion]

it's downloading something that someone else who bought the game cracked and put into one big file on the internet, yes?

So you don't know what it means.

pi·rate
   [pahy-ruht] Show IPA noun, verb, -rat·ed, -rat·ing.

?verb (used with object)

to use or reproduce (a book, an invention, etc.) without authorization or legal right: to pirate hit records.

"pirated" implies obtained through illegal channels. No one payed for it, ever.

Even if one person did pay for it then allowed others to download copies from them, that's still nothing like lending because the duplication and distribution of someone else's product without license to is also illegal, and thus considered pirating on the part of the downloaders.

 

[Sikachu]

You still have something you didn't pay for. No matter how you justify it, you are stealing, even if it actually is a good reason. It's theft.

So by your ignorant definition of stealing, I stole every gift I've ever received, every tree I've ever found, everything my parents gave me, everything that came with compliments at a hotel or restaurant.

So by your ignorant interpretation of what I was trying to say, you missed that I was referring to piracy and obtaining games/software illegally through improper channels. I was speaking nothing of gifts, complementaries, etc. I posted a bit on my views on piracy on this thread about said topic. I can only assume you misinterpreted me on purpose. If not, then pay attention.

Sure, you make anyone look like the bad guy when you take what he says out of context.

I don't live in some ridiculous childish world where there are 'bad guys' and 'good guys', so that you think my quoting makes you look like a 'bad guy' speaks only to your immaturity. What it is pointing out, however, is that you've utterly failed to make a case for why software piracy is theft. You've made a case for why gift-giving and software piracy are theft, and presumably you don't really think that gift-giving (or lending things, now I come to think of it) is theft, then you need to change your definition. Whether or not you were referring to piracy specifically to the exclusion of all other things, a comment like "You still have something you didn't pay for. No matter how you justify it, you are stealing, even if it actually is a good reason. It's theft." has general application, and therefore is susceptible to general rebuttal (in other words 'stealing' means the same thing when you're talking about software piracy as when you are talking about anything else). So, ManWithHat, do you think that gift-giving is theft, or are you going to review the basis upon which you define stealing?

 

[ManWithHat]

You still have something you didn't pay for. No matter how you justify it, you are stealing, even if it actually is a good reason. It's theft.

So by your ignorant definition of stealing, I stole every gift I've ever received, every tree I've ever found, everything my parents gave me, everything that came with compliments at a hotel or restaurant.

So by your ignorant interpretation of what I was trying to say, you missed that I was referring to piracy and obtaining games/software illegally through improper channels. I was speaking nothing of gifts, complementaries, etc. I posted a bit on my views on piracy on this thread about said topic. I can only assume you misinterpreted me on purpose. If not, then pay attention.

Sure, you make anyone look like the bad guy when you take what he says out of context.

I don't live in some ridiculous childish world where there are 'bad guys' and 'good guys', so that you think my quoting makes you look like a 'bad guy' speaks only to your immaturity. What it is pointing out, however, is that you've utterly failed to make a case for why software piracy is theft. You've made a case for why gift-giving and software piracy are theft, and presumably you don't really think that gift-giving (or lending things, now I come to think of it) is theft, then you need to change your definition. Whether or not you were referring to piracy specifically to the exclusion of all other things, a comment like "You still have something you didn't pay for. No matter how you justify it, you are stealing, even if it actually is a good reason. It's theft." has general application, and therefore is susceptible to general rebuttal (in other words 'stealing' means the same thing when you're talking about software piracy as when you are talking about anything else). So, ManWithHat, do you think that gift-giving is theft, or are you going to review the basis upon which you define stealing?

No, I don't think that gift-giving is theft in any way. How could it be?
What I think of "theft" in terms of piracy: If you illegally download/obtain a copy of a game or software through improper channels (i.e. torrents, cracking and copying discs).
I think that it is theft. Even if you can't find a demo, even if you buy it afterwards, even if you weren't gonna buy either way. I deem that to be theft. Why? Because you did not obtain it legally. You did not buy it from a store (physical or online) and exchange some form of currency for it, nor did you go to a friend who got it from a viable source and do likewise. You did not, generally, pay money for it. It's not any different from regular theft. The only thing that makes it different, is can be copied and uploaded. You can't do that with, say, a toaster, or a car, a bottle of Jack Daniels. Just because you can, just because it's so easy, doesn't make it any better.

I do not live in such a 'childish' world either. I simply did not understand why you would take one line from what I said and use it to make such a comment while it's obvious (at least, I should think so) that I was merely referring to piracy. I thought the context was obvious. It just seemed blatantly debasing. I don't know. I can't tell. It's the internet.

 

[pokepuke]

the foremost goal is to find a way to play the game.

This right here is the problem. If someone's foremost goal is to play a game, there are deeper issues with that person than just piracy. It isn't like someone stealing food to feed their family, or killing someone in self-defense, both of which are more justifiable than unnecessarily depriving someone of the fruits of their labors in the name of entertainment.

And as you make it out to be a trivial matter, the rules being broken are also that much more trivial. It is not even anything serious, so why have such serious reactions over the issue?

As for this supposed deprivation/justification: aren't they depriving me of my money? What justifies them taking it when I might have other means to playing the game? I can also go over to a friend's house and play the game there, but should I not be allowed since I would be unnecessarily depriving someone of the fruits of their labors in the name of entertainment?

You ignore the real cause and effect relationship, since there is no actual deprivation happening when we have not even yet reached the point of exchanging money for the product or even deciding to do so. With some of these wild accusations, you might as well say the entertainers are at fault for people being hungry because they are wasting time when they could be out making food for these people. Or that they didn't become cops so they are depriving us of the safety we would otherwise have had.

This is just someone feeling that their desire to play a game trumps the rules that society has set up in order for smoother operation.

It's not society. It is businesses making the rules so they can make money. Blindly following the rules may virtually create "smooth operation", but we're supposed to be in a free society, and having a free society will foster a real, not virtual, "smooth operation". Your sentence seems to be a desire for game developers to be able to take money from others because the outcome is the creation of whatever games you like. It really seems that you happen to dislike capitalism.

It isn't an assumption that it's a self-entitlement thing, it is a self-entitlement thing, and the more the pirates try to justify it, the more they come off as self-centered douchebags.

Non-sequitur.

If anything, you have completely reversed the roles and given the entitlements to the entertainment people.

 

[OutforEC]

It isn't an assumption that it's a self-entitlement thing, it is a self-entitlement thing, and the more the pirates try to justify it, the more they come off as self-centered douchebags.

Non-sequitur.

If anything, you have completely reversed the roles and given the entitlements to the entertainment people.

So, there are reasons to pirate a game that don't have to do with someone believing they're entitled to it? If they don't think they're entitled to it and are pirating it anyway then they're just doing it because they 'can', and that just seems blatantly malicious instead of ill-guided.

As for the people producing the work being pirated, I believe that my stance throughout this discussion has been that those who produce reap the benefits. You are trying to give the entitlement to those who, in my opinion, do not deserve them, but by all means continue to try to justify it.

 

[OutforEC]

I don't see any reason why they shouldn't release demos of all games. That way there would be no justification for piracy because we'd all be able to try before buying. Plus there are a lot of games out there that i don't buy simply because i cant test it legally. If demos of all games were released they'd be making a lot more money off me and a lot of other consumers I'm sure.

Next time you release a game, you are welcome to release a demo with it. At that point it will be your decision, just as right now it is the decision of developers and distributors to release or not release a demo as they see fit.

Plus there are a lot of games out there that i don't buy simply because i cant test it legally.

Bravo, this is the correct answer.

 

[pokepuke]

So, there are reasons to pirate a game that don't have to do with someone believing they're entitled to it?

You keep saying stuff like this, but it still hasn't made it true.

If they don't think they're entitled to it and are pirating it anyway then they're just doing it because they 'can', and that just seems blatantly malicious instead of ill-guided.

Right, so you nearly say you don't understand why they do it, but still give your armchair-psychologist conclusion. Frankly, no one should care about your speculative opinion.

As for the people producing the work being pirated, I believe that my stance throughout this discussion has been that those who produce reap the benefits.

This doesn't even make sense. Be more ambiguous, maybe that will help.

It still doesn't make up for how you are just giving the entitlements to the other person.

You are trying to give the entitlement to those who, in my opinion, do not deserve them, but by all means continue to try to justify it.

Nope. Once again, saying it doesn't suddenly make it true.

Your arguments are in a vacuum where you label actions as either Good and Bad. This simple-minded categorization doesn't apply. Once you realize how reality actually works, then maybe you can try to pinpoint why people do things and that the law (or rules created by the industry) isn't the last stop for morality.